Yesterday my partner David, our friend Eli, and I, all relative beginners, took our boats out in a quiet lake and practiced paddle-float re-entries for the first time. We knew the theory, but it took a lot of trial and error before Eli and I were able to successfully perform re-entries. David was too pooped from towing us back to shore and helping us empty swamped boats after failures to try re-entries for himself. Anyway, I am just so excited to have begun to add this trick to my reportoire that I wanted to share it with the list. The three of us feel that in our 2 1/2 hours playing in the water yesterday, we significantly advanced our skills and our knowledge about what our boats can do and what we can do. We also developed a small shopping list of gear it would be nice--no, make that essential--to have (who ever said paddle leashes were optional? None of us was able to right a flipped boat one-handed while holding onto a paddle with the other hand, and would surely have lost paddles if we'd been in current or waves--I'm sure this is not news to most of you), and I found that my PFD is worse than useless and won't be any better unless I install a crotch strap to keep it from riding up. It's good to learn these things on a quiet inland lake 20 yards from shore on a warm and sunny day! We're all eager to get out in the water again to practice some more. Here's a question: Any tips for righting an upside-down boat without taking on water--or tips for minimizing the water taken on? We found that we always took on what seemed like a significant amount of water when righting our boats, and that was on a glassy surface. Thanks, Su Penn *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> > Yesterday my partner David, our friend Eli, and I, all relative beginners, > took our boats out in a quiet lake and practiced paddle-float re-entries > for the first time. We knew the theory, but it took a lot of trial and > error before Eli and I were able to successfully perform re-entries. David > was too pooped from towing us back to shore and helping us empty swamped > boats after failures to try re-entries for himself. > > Anyway, I am just so excited to have begun to add this trick to my > reportoire that I wanted to share it with the list. The three of us feel > that in our 2 1/2 hours playing in the water yesterday, we significantly > advanced our skills and our knowledge about what our boats can do and what > we can do. There are two things that I keep telling myself when I'm doing a paddlefloat reentry that makes it a lot easier. 1. Keep your head low. Once you climb onto the deck making sure head is low to the deck will keep the boat much more stable (the same is true during and assisted T rescue but not as important). 2. Keep your weight on the paddlefloat until you're completely in the cockpit. Everytime I have capsized while trying to do a paddlefloat reentry was on the opposite side of the paddle float. > We also developed a small shopping list of gear it would be nice--no, make > that essential--to have (who ever said paddle leashes were optional? Also non-optional in my book is deck rigging to secure your paddle and to hold onto while inflating the float. The Seaward boats have built in straps behind on cockpit near each gunwale that look like they would work real well although I haven't tried them yet. > paddle with the other hand, and would surely have lost paddles if we'd been > in current or waves--I'm sure this is not news to most of you), and I found > that my PFD is worse than useless and won't be any better unless I install > a crotch strap to keep it from riding up. PFD wedgies? That'll get you out of the water in a hurry. > Here's a question: Any tips for righting an upside-down boat without taking > on water--or tips for minimizing the water taken on? We found that we > always took on what seemed like a significant amount of water when righting > our boats, and that was on a glassy surface. I'll be curious what kinds of suggestions are posted here as well. -- John Fereira jaf30_at_cornell.edu *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Su Penn wrote: > > Yesterday my partner David, our friend Eli, and I, all relative beginners, > took our boats out in a quiet lake and practiced paddle-float re-entries > for the first time. SNIPPED > We also developed a small shopping list of gear it would be nice--no, make > that essential--to have (who ever said paddle leashes were optional? None > of us was able to right a flipped boat one-handed while holding onto a > paddle with the other hand, and would surely have lost paddles if we'd been > in current or waves--I'm sure this is not news to most of you) I advocate using paddle leashes although there is always the fear of entanglement. If you don't use a leash, you can have both hands free if you place your paddle between your legs a la how a witch flies on a broom :-). In assisted rescues, you could also grab your rescuer's paddle while he or she works on dragging your boat over theirs to empty it. Less crunch and possible damage to the their paddle than if it were on their bow deck while your boat is being pulled across there to be emptied. You complained about the buoyancy of your PFD (see below) and that undoubtedly made it difficult to flip your boat. As you pushed up, you probably very disconcertedly were sinking down into the lower part of your PFD. If your PFD were holding better you would have a better platform for doing the flipover of your boat. , and I found > that my PFD is worse than useless and won't be any better unless I install > a crotch strap to keep it from riding up. It's good to learn these things > on a quiet inland lake 20 yards from shore on a warm and sunny day! Get a better PFD of the right fit and it won't ride up. > > We're all eager to get out in the water again to practice some more. > > Here's a question: Any tips for righting an upside-down boat without taking > on water--or tips for minimizing the water taken on? We found that we > always took on what seemed like a significant amount of water when righting > our boats, and that was on a glassy surface. I assume these are solo rescues. You might try to empty some of the water out of the boat by getting on to its rear while it is upside down. Go on to the upturned boat cowboy style and this will raise the bow and empty it. There are various ways of flipping the boat. Climb on to the boat and flip it toward you. Or reach under to the opposite side of the coaming and yank it toward you as you flip the nearside of the coaming. Depending on your strength, technique one of these methods should work. Experiment as each idea here and that you will hear from others has the equal potential of flooding your kayak quite a lot. ralph diaz ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> -----Original Message----- > From: John Fereira [mailto:fereira_at_albert.mannlib.cornell.edu] > Sent: Monday, June 28, 1999 11:45 AM snip > The Seaward boats have built in straps behind on cockpit near each gunwale that look like they > would work real well although I haven't tried them yet. snip They work great for paddle float re-entries - the straps are solidly attached and have a Fas-Tex quick release to make getting the paddle out of there and in your hands a quick operation. The straps really help hold the paddle in place compared to bungies or simply holding the paddle blade in place manually. Dave Seng Juneau, Alaska *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John Fereira [mailto:fereira_at_albert.mannlib.cornell.edu] > > Sent: Monday, June 28, 1999 11:45 AM > snip > > The Seaward boats have built in straps behind on cockpit near each > gunwale that look like they > > would work real well although I haven't tried them yet. > snip > > They work great for paddle float re-entries - the straps are solidly > attached and have a Fas-Tex quick release to make getting the paddle out of > there and in your hands a quick operation. The straps really help hold the > paddle in place compared to bungies or simply holding the paddle blade in > place manually. I assume that most people are aware of the technique but you can also get a piece of rope about 15' long and tie the ends to form a loop. Lay the paddle across the deck and through the loop. Pull the rope under the boat and then wrap it around the shaft several times to form a stirrup. Stepping into the stirrup while the other leg goes over the paddle and paddlfloat will make it much easier to climb onto the deck without using a lot of upper body strength. > Dave Seng > Juneau, Alaska > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** > -- John Fereira jaf30_at_cornell.edu *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Dave Seng wrote: > I assume that most people are aware of the technique but you can > also get a piece of rope about 15' long and tie the ends to form > a loop. Lay the paddle across the deck and through the loop. > Pull the rope under the boat and then wrap it around the shaft > several times to form a stirrup. Stepping into the stirrup > while the other leg goes over the paddle and paddlfloat will make > it much easier to climb onto the deck without using a lot of > upper body strength. I used a simpler variation on this trick when I was learning the re-entry night before last, and it worked very well for me. My boat, an Old Town Loon 138, sits relatively high out of the water. I just put a loop of webbing around the coaming of the boat so that it hung down into the water to about even with the bottom of the boat. With my left foot on the paddle shaft, my right foot in the stirrup, and my hands grabbing the far side of the coaming, I was able to lift myself easily onto the boat. My friend Eli, who also learned the re-entry at the same time, was able to do it without the stirrup, but then she weighs probably about eighty pounds less than me, has terrific upper body strength for a woman, and was in a boat whose deck is lower. On the other hand, the boat she was using had no back deck rigging, so she had to hold the paddle to the boat with one hand, and she has cerebral palsy, so maybe it all evens out. People have also responded to my question about how to right your boat without getting water in it by making some suggestions about PFDs and by telling me to learn to roll. I don't plan to learn to roll anytime soon, as the Loon is not the kind of boat you roll in. And believe me, I would love to own a better-fitting PFD, but I have tried on plenty in different brands and styles and I have the same problem with all of them, which is that they are a little too long (maybe because men are used as the models?). Every type of PFD I've tried on is too long in the body; they all come to slightly _below_ my waist, so that when I tighten the waist strap, it's not at my narrowest point, and it wants to slide up to my narrowest point. This is true even of brands, like the one I own, that have shoulder straps to adjust the length, and of special "short" PFDs especially designed for kayaking. I might have less trouble with this if I were a smaller woman, but I wear an XL PFD and I think they get a little longer as they get bigger, whereas I do not get longer no matter how big I get. I do intend to install a crotch strap on my PFD as the best option available to me right now; several people asked, "but how will that work with a spray skirt?" Well, in the kind of boat I have and the kind of paddling I do, I don't wear a spray skirt unless there's weather, so that wouldn't be an issue much of the time. My friend Adrianne, who is an ace seamstress, also thinks she might be able to secure the strap inside the PFD in such a way that my spray skirt could slide up between the PFD and the crotch strap. I'll let you know if that works. Su Penn *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Su Penn wrote: > > Yesterday my partner David, our friend Eli, and I, all relative beginners, > took our boats out in a quiet lake and practiced paddle-float re-entries > for the first time. > > We also developed a small shopping list of gear it would be nice--no, make > that essential--to have (who ever said paddle leashes were optional? None > of us was able to right a flipped boat one-handed while holding onto a > paddle with the other hand. Try sticking it between your legs. Although this is not recommended if you are in the surf zone. I use the deck bungies, but be sure to duck when it comes flying over as the boat is righted. > I found > that my PFD is worse than useless and won't be any better unless I install > a crotch strap to keep it from riding up. Sounds like it doesn't fit well. Do you perhaps have a shape that the PFD amnufacturer didn't have in mind when he designed the device? (Was that polite enough?) Evan a fairly pear-shaped person should be able to tighten the bottom strap or tie tightly enough to keep it below the rib cage. > > Here's a question: Any tips for righting an upside-down boat without taking > on water--or tips for minimizing the water taken on? That's a tricky one for me, too. I'll be interested in the replies Steve -- Test Scoring & Reporting Services Sometimes, you never can University of Georgia always tell what you Athens, GA 30602-5593 least expect the most. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Su; Try placing your paddle parallel to your overturned kayak and, while grabbing both the paddle shaft and the cockpit coaming nearest you with one hand, reach under the kayak to the coaming on the opposite side with your other hand and then simply rotate the boat upright. You will be able to right the boat while still maintaining control of your paddle this way. John Winskill Su Penn wrote: > snip>>> None > of us was able to right a flipped boat one-handed while holding onto a > paddle with the other hand, and would surely have lost paddles if we'd been > in current or waves--I'm sure this is not news to most of you), > snip > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
If you don't have your paddle secured with a paddle leash, then holding your paddle between your legs is a good option. Rolling the boat up with a very quick push-pull of the hands across the cockpit minimizes the amout of water fills the boat. One little trick that some folks use is to put their weight on the stern while the boat is upside down to pop up the bow and drain some water before flipping the boat, but it is not really necessary. The trick to making the paddle float rescue easy is to swim up onto the kayak rather than trying to pull yourself up with your arms. I try to teach my students to keep their hands under their chest with their elbows out, and then just swim up onto the hull with a frog kick keeping your body as flat as possible. A good way to practice is to swim up onto a friends rear kayak deck and slither back off without " rocking the boat ". It is not that hard once you get the hang of it. Once you have mastered the art of sliding on and off the rear deck, you hardly need the paddle float for balance. Su Penn wrote: > Yesterday my partner David, our friend Eli, and I, all relative beginners, > took our boats out in a quiet lake and practiced paddle-float re-entries > for the first time. We knew the theory, but it took a lot of trial and > error before Eli and I were able to successfully perform re-entries. David > was too pooped from towing us back to shore and helping us empty swamped > boats after failures to try re-entries for himself. > > Anyway, I am just so excited to have begun to add this trick to my > reportoire that I wanted to share it with the list. The three of us feel > that in our 2 1/2 hours playing in the water yesterday, we significantly > advanced our skills and our knowledge about what our boats can do and what > we can do. > > We also developed a small shopping list of gear it would be nice--no, make > that essential--to have (who ever said paddle leashes were optional? None > of us was able to right a flipped boat one-handed while holding onto a > paddle with the other hand, and would surely have lost paddles if we'd been > in current or waves--I'm sure this is not news to most of you), and I found > that my PFD is worse than useless and won't be any better unless I install > a crotch strap to keep it from riding up. It's good to learn these things > on a quiet inland lake 20 yards from shore on a warm and sunny day! > > We're all eager to get out in the water again to practice some more. > > Here's a question: Any tips for righting an upside-down boat without taking > on water--or tips for minimizing the water taken on? We found that we > always took on what seemed like a significant amount of water when righting > our boats, and that was on a glassy surface. > > Thanks, > > Su Penn > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Let's give credit where credit is due, John Fereira wrote the paragraph ascribed to me. Dave Seng > -----Original Message----- > From: Su Penn [mailto:supenn_at_voyager.net] > Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 7:14 AM > To: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Successful Paddle-Float Re-entry > > > Dave Seng wrote: > > > I assume that most people are aware of the technique but you can > > also get a piece of rope about 15' long and tie the ends to form > > a loop. Lay the paddle across the deck and through the loop. > > Pull the rope under the boat and then wrap it around the shaft > > several times to form a stirrup. Stepping into the stirrup > > while the other leg goes over the paddle and paddlfloat will make > > it much easier to climb onto the deck without using a lot of > > upper body strength. > > I used a simpler variation on this trick when I was learning > the re-entry > night before last, and it worked very well for me. My boat, > an Old Town > Loon 138, sits relatively high out of the water. I just put a loop of > webbing around the coaming of the boat so that it hung down > into the water > to about even with the bottom of the boat. With my left foot > on the paddle > shaft, my right foot in the stirrup, and my hands grabbing > the far side of > the coaming, I was able to lift myself easily onto the boat. > My friend Eli, > who also learned the re-entry at the same time, was able to > do it without > the stirrup, but then she weighs probably about eighty pounds > less than me, > has terrific upper body strength for a woman, and was in a > boat whose deck > is lower. On the other hand, the boat she was using had no back deck > rigging, so she had to hold the paddle to the boat with one > hand, and she > has cerebral palsy, so maybe it all evens out. > > People have also responded to my question about how to right your boat > without getting water in it by making some suggestions about > PFDs and by > telling me to learn to roll. I don't plan to learn to roll > anytime soon, as > the Loon is not the kind of boat you roll in. > > And believe me, I would love to own a better-fitting PFD, but > I have tried > on plenty in different brands and styles and I have the same > problem with > all of them, which is that they are a little too long (maybe > because men > are used as the models?). Every type of PFD I've tried on is > too long in > the body; they all come to slightly _below_ my waist, so that when I > tighten the waist strap, it's not at my narrowest point, and > it wants to > slide up to my narrowest point. This is true even of brands, > like the one I > own, that have shoulder straps to adjust the length, and of > special "short" > PFDs especially designed for kayaking. I might have less > trouble with this > if I were a smaller woman, but I wear an XL PFD and I think they get a > little longer as they get bigger, whereas I do not get longer > no matter how > big I get. > > I do intend to install a crotch strap on my PFD as the best option > available to me right now; several people asked, "but how > will that work > with a spray skirt?" Well, in the kind of boat I have and the kind of > paddling I do, I don't wear a spray skirt unless there's > weather, so that > wouldn't be an issue much of the time. My friend Adrianne, > who is an ace > seamstress, also thinks she might be able to secure the strap > inside the > PFD in such a way that my spray skirt could slide up between > the PFD and > the crotch strap. I'll let you know if that works. > > Su Penn > > > ************************************************************** > ************* > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > ************************************************************** > ************* > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Sue; Have you checked out the Lotus Designs Lola? It was designed specifically for women, although a lot of men like the fit too! Mike Su Penn wrote: > > > And believe me, I would love to own a better-fitting PFD, but I have tried > on plenty in different brands and styles and I have the same problem with > all of them, which is that they are a little too long (maybe because men > are used as the models?). -- Paddling along through fog so thick that only one's thoughts are visible, your reverie is abruptly shattered by the ancient cry of a great blue heron as she lifts uncertainly from the brilliant blue of a mussel-shell beach witnessed only by the brooding, wet spruce....your passage home seems as much back through time as it does through space. Mark H Hunt *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hi Su, Indeed, the sling around the coaming is quicker and easier, but just for the record it is a risky manouver with anything other than a plastic boat. You could pull the coaming right off boats made of other materials. I think it is great that you are out there practicing these skills even though you seem to generally stick with calm water. Next thing you know, you'll be surfing in that Loon! Keep on! Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: Su Penn <supenn_at_voyager.net> To: <paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net> Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 8:14 AM Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Successful Paddle-Float Re-entry > Dave Seng wrote: > > > I assume that most people are aware of the technique but you can > > also get a piece of rope about 15' long and tie the ends to form > > a loop. Lay the paddle across the deck and through the loop. > > Pull the rope under the boat and then wrap it around the shaft > > several times to form a stirrup. Stepping into the stirrup > > while the other leg goes over the paddle and paddlfloat will make > > it much easier to climb onto the deck without using a lot of > > upper body strength. > > I used a simpler variation on this trick when I was learning the re-entry > night before last, and it worked very well for me. My boat, an Old Town > Loon 138, sits relatively high out of the water. I just put a loop of > webbing around the coaming of the boat so that it hung down into the water > to about even with the bottom of the boat. With my left foot on the paddle > shaft, my right foot in the stirrup, and my hands grabbing the far side of > the coaming, I was able to lift myself easily onto the boat. My friend Eli, > who also learned the re-entry at the same time, was able to do it without > the stirrup, but then she weighs probably about eighty pounds less than me, > has terrific upper body strength for a woman, and was in a boat whose deck > is lower. On the other hand, the boat she was using had no back deck > rigging, so she had to hold the paddle to the boat with one hand, and she > has cerebral palsy, so maybe it all evens out. > > People have also responded to my question about how to right your boat > without getting water in it by making some suggestions about PFDs and by > telling me to learn to roll. I don't plan to learn to roll anytime soon, as > the Loon is not the kind of boat you roll in. > > And believe me, I would love to own a better-fitting PFD, but I have tried > on plenty in different brands and styles and I have the same problem with > all of them, which is that they are a little too long (maybe because men > are used as the models?). Every type of PFD I've tried on is too long in > the body; they all come to slightly _below_ my waist, so that when I > tighten the waist strap, it's not at my narrowest point, and it wants to > slide up to my narrowest point. This is true even of brands, like the one I > own, that have shoulder straps to adjust the length, and of special "short" > PFDs especially designed for kayaking. I might have less trouble with this > if I were a smaller woman, but I wear an XL PFD and I think they get a > little longer as they get bigger, whereas I do not get longer no matter how > big I get. > > I do intend to install a crotch strap on my PFD as the best option > available to me right now; several people asked, "but how will that work > with a spray skirt?" Well, in the kind of boat I have and the kind of > paddling I do, I don't wear a spray skirt unless there's weather, so that > wouldn't be an issue much of the time. My friend Adrianne, who is an ace > seamstress, also thinks she might be able to secure the strap inside the > PFD in such a way that my spray skirt could slide up between the PFD and > the crotch strap. I'll let you know if that works. > > Su Penn > > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 17:12 6/28/99 -0400, Steve Cramer <cramer_at_coe.uga.edu> wrote: >Su Penn wrote: [snip] >> I found >> that my PFD is worse than useless and won't be any better unless I install >> a crotch strap to keep it from riding up. > >Sounds like it doesn't fit well. Do you perhaps have a shape that the >PFD amnufacturer didn't have in mind when he designed the device? (Was >that polite enough?) Evan a fairly pear-shaped person should be able to >tighten the bottom strap or tie tightly enough to keep it below the rib >cage. [sniparoo] >Steve since both steve & ralph said close to the same thing, i can tighten my bottom strap around my ribcage -- but my stomach is lower, and would still stick out, pushing the pfd higher ... i just felt all around my gut/body, and my gut is definitely _below_ my rib cage... [very pear shaped] so this isn't true, and i'd hate to say how much i've spent on pfd's alone in the last 6-8 years [about 14-18 months between pfds] mark #------canoeist[at]netbox[dot]com-------------------------------------- mark zen o, o__ o_/| o_. po box 474 </ [\/ [\_| [\_\ ft. lupton, co 80621-0474 (`-/-------/----') (`----|-------\-') #~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~ http://www.diac.com/~zen/paddler [index of Paddling websites I manage] Rocky Mtn Sea Kayak Club, Colorado River Flows, Poudre Paddlers The Colorado Paddlers' Resource, Rocky Mtn Canoe Club Trip Page -- Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. --Pablo Picasso *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Mark Zen wrote: > > >Sounds like it doesn't fit well. Do you perhaps have a shape that the > >PFD amnufacturer didn't have in mind when he designed the device? (Was > >that polite enough?) Even a fairly pear-shaped person should be able to > >tighten the bottom strap or tie tightly enough to keep it below the rib > >cage. > [sniparoo] > > since both steve & ralph said close to the same thing, > i can tighten my bottom strap around my ribcage -- but my stomach is lower, > and would still stick out, pushing the pfd higher ... i just felt all around > my gut/body, and my gut is definitely _below_ my rib cage... [very pear shaped] > so this isn't true, and i'd hate to say how much i've spent on pfd's alone in > the last 6-8 years [about 14-18 months between pfds] > So, Mark, perhaps you are unfairly pear-shaped. ;). The PFD manufacturers have just recently arrived arrived at the realization that male and female paddlers are shaped differently. Now they need to look at other shape differences, as well. Or, you could go back to your canoe... Steve -- Test Scoring & Reporting Services Sometimes, you never can University of Georgia always tell what you Athens, GA 30602-5593 least expect the most. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
David Seng wrote: > I assume that most people are aware of the technique but you can > also get a piece of rope about 15' long and tie the ends to form > a loop. Lay the paddle across the deck and through the loop. > Pull the rope under the boat and then wrap it around the shaft > several times to form a stirrup. Stepping into the stirrup > while the other leg goes over the paddle and paddlfloat will make > it much easier to climb onto the deck without using a lot of > upper body strength. This will get you up easier but once your foot comes out of the stirrup you will loose much of the stability provided by the outrigger. You can use the loop method (or a much shorter loop) to help you into a fixed outrigger setup if you need it, but why waste the time setting it up if you don't. Matt Broze *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Oops! It was John Fereira rather than Dave Seng I was responding to with the last message. Sorry Matt Broze -----Original Message----- From: John Fereira <fereira_at_albert.mannlib.cornell.edu> To: David Seng <David_at_wainet.com> Cc: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net <paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net> Date: Monday, June 28, 1999 4:05 PM Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Successful Paddle-Float Re-entry >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: John Fereira [mailto:fereira_at_albert.mannlib.cornell.edu] >> > Sent: Monday, June 28, 1999 11:45 AM >> snip >> > The Seaward boats have built in straps behind on cockpit near each >> gunwale that look like they >> > would work real well although I haven't tried them yet. >> snip >> >> They work great for paddle float re-entries - the straps are solidly >> attached and have a Fas-Tex quick release to make getting the paddle out of >> there and in your hands a quick operation. The straps really help hold the >> paddle in place compared to bungies or simply holding the paddle blade in >> place manually. > > I assume that most people are aware of the technique but you can > also get a piece of rope about 15' long and tie the ends to form > a loop. Lay the paddle across the deck and through the loop. > Pull the rope under the boat and then wrap it around the shaft > several times to form a stirrup. Stepping into the stirrup > while the other leg goes over the paddle and paddlfloat will make > it much easier to climb onto the deck without using a lot of > upper body strength. > >> Dave Seng >> Juneau, Alaska >> *************************************************************************** >> PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List >> Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net >> Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net >> Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ >> *************************************************************************** >> > > >-- >John Fereira >jaf30_at_cornell.edu >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List >Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net >Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net >Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ >*************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
-----Original Message----- From: Adventurous Spirit <kayak_at_whidbeyisland.com> >Hi Su, > Indeed, the sling around the coaming is quicker and easier, but just for >the record it is a risky manouver with anything other than a plastic boat. >You could pull the coaming right off boats made of other materials. Very unlikely with a well made fiberglass kayak Matt Broze *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Adventurous Spirit wrote: > > Indeed, the sling around the coaming is quicker and easier, but just for > the record it is a risky manouver with anything other than a plastic boat. > You could pull the coaming right off boats made of other materials. Huh? I have a hard time understanding how a sling used to assist a person to re-enter a cockpit could exert much force on the coaming. I've used the sling on a wide variety of yaks, and never encountered any degradation of the coaming/deck joint. OTOH, I have separated one coaming/deck joint by too-aggressively levering my body out of the boat using teh coaming as a push point. Partly my fault and partly the mfr's fault. I should not have been so much of an ape. The mfr should not have used a rigid (epoxy and phenolic microballoons?) filler/adhesive to attack coaming and deck. Just curious: Matt Broze: what adhesive do you use on the coaming'deck joint on Mariners? -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I'm forwarding this for Doug Lloyd whose ISP is having some problems delivering his messages to PaddleWise... Jackie ----- Begin Included Message ----- >From dlloyd_at_inetex.com Fri Jul 2 02:05 PDT 1999 X-Sender: dlloyd_at_inetex.com Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 23:55:51 -0700 Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Successful Paddle-Float Re-entry Mime-Version: 1.0 >This thread commenced thus: >> Yesterday my partner David, our friend Eli, and I, all relative beginners, >> took our boats out in a quiet lake and practiced paddle-float re-entries >> for the first time. We knew the theory, but it took a lot of trial and >> error before Eli and I were able to successfully perform re-entries.<big snipola>. > >N.B. (My ISP is having problems with my postings to PW, so hopefully Jackie will post this reply for me). > >I've spent the entire winter researching and testing the paddle float rescue, and the more successful paddle float fixed-outrigger rescue. The fruit of this labor should appear in the October issue of SK Magazine. I also run paddle float clinics occasionally, and include in my demos a number of kayak simulation decks, set up with the various web-strap and bungie systems from the better designers (with custom modifications shown where needed). > >The following are my responses in point form to the questions and issues raised in the recent thread: > >1. While you can make an argument for keeping as much water in your kayak's cockpit as possible in order to have the deck lower to sea level - and therefore make it easier to reboard those high volume yaks, I personally find it easier to reboard a less swamped kayak. Additionally, I really don't think the vast majority of paddlers, especially weaker ones (not meant as a slight-just a real-life observation), realize just how strenuous pumping out a reasonably sized, flooded cockpit to the point of a couple of inches of water can be, let alone in a real life situation with cold, cramping arms. It's bloody hard work, mates! And, it takes a while, too. So, get rid of the excess water prior to reboarding, but only if you have the time and technique, otherwise don't fuss. > >2. There are a number of techniques for emptying water other than those mentioned. The stern-push-and-twist works well with some boats, usually unloaded. With a bulkhead just behind the seat, the bow-lift is another favorite. The trick is having enough buoyancy to be able to perform the maneuver. You can use your paddle float attached to paddle, and place it under your arm or hook the arrangement around the side of your neck as you lift the bow - don't ask me which works best, 'cause I'm just going to tell you to go out and experiment. I carry a Sea Seat, which I can also get on and then I have LOTS of buoyancy for doing the bow-lift. The most common approach which negates scooping too much water places you beside the overturned kayak. You then place the paddle (perhaps with float on) between you and the kayak. Now reach the upturned cockpit rim closest to you. Slowly rotate the kayak so it is sitting on its edge - it may take a bit of slow lifting to overcome the suction of the cockpit. Now push upwards and away with a rapid motion, but don't let go of the kayak! Other methods of rotating the kayak may scoop too much water. Again, experiment. > >3. In order to keep yourself low, which is very important (especially with the often heavier upper body weight of a male paddler), always keep your head low *and* your eyes on the paddle float - this ensures that the maneuver is done correctly as it tends to prevent you over-balancing to the non-outrigger side while rotating back in. > >4. Most advise given maintains that you should keep lots of weight on the paddle/float. Yes, you must maintain weight on the outrigger, and the rougher it is, the more weight required. The problem is that too much weight will submerge your float or worse, break a paddle. I was running a clinic two weeks ago and did just that - broke a paddle demonstrating how to do the less effective, non-fixed method. I slipped back off the deck, putting too much weight on the paddle shaft, and snapped my new glass fibre Lendal in a micro second (how *not* to do a float rescue, as one student surmised!). The trick is to put your weight on the boat, not the float, while maintaining some weight on the outrigger. Now we are talking balance, which means practice, lots of it. >(Many students who participate in paddle float clinics are dismayed that for some of them, it can be very difficult to perform the rescue to completion. This is good, not bad. It lets them realise how difficult the rescue can be, and that's just in a warm lake. They often have carried floats for years, figuring as long as they knew the theory...) > >5. High volume kayaks are usually wider, making the above balancing situation a little easier but, it is more difficult to get up out of the water in the first place on the higher deck. The sling idea works well, but it can rotate the boat over again if the float lacks sufficient buoyancy (some home made ones are too small). A comment was made that slings around the coaming should be restricted to plastic kayaks only. This is good advice if you have a light weight layup, etc. However, don't dismiss this option too rapidly. A sling distributes weight all the way around the rim. But, if the boat is still too flimsy for the sling option, perhaps you will also have other rescue problems too - like, some decks/coamings are so flimsy, it even makes an assisted rescue dicey where weight is placed on the deck during reboarding. Stay on calm lakes? > >6. Deck rigging. I picked up Seawards new web straps. I visited their factory this past weekend. They have replaced the regular fastex buckle with a curved version made for dog collars. It is strong enough. The advantage with the new buckle is that it allows a much more natural angle for the nylon web strap, but once tightened, stays that way. I also have the Nimbus system which uses the fastex buckle, but has a quick release pull tab. It is very easy to use, with respect to reaching behind to undo the fixed outrigger. Pacific Water Sports in Seattle, from what I understand, don't sell their Lee Moyer kayaks with rescue bungies or straps. They prefer the T-cleat and Jam-cleat method, which I also demonstrate and admire. > >7. My wife is worried about me. I've been playing with buckles and straps in my work shop for the last few months, working out the kinks, and she thinks I'm getting a little kinky too. Now at dinner time, she won't even listen to me while I discuss the pros nd cons of polyester vs nylon webbing - spouses, they just don't understand deck rescue system fetishes! > >BC'in Ya >Doug Lloyd > > ----- End Included Message ----- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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