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From: Howes, Damon - MAJ <howesd_at_eustis.army.mil>
subject: [Paddlewise] Sleeping in your sea kayak...
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 12:55:34 -0400
Not relevant for all paddlers but I would be interested in comments from
"been there, done that" paddlers.  I have asked Arthur Herbert separately
for his comments, as I know he has dealt with this problem.

I am considering an extended solo open water crossing that would probably
take about 35 days.  This goal is to be achieved in the next five years.  

I've noted previous paddler's have ensured they travelled in a stable kayak
(Ed Gillet using a modified double, Dr Lindemann's in a single inflatable
with an outrigger, etc.) and used methods such as sleeping in a sitting
position.  Also know of Peter Treseder who kayaked across the Timor Sea
(between Australia and PNG) who had an inflatable raft (he is a tall guy!)
which he jumped into when needing rest and presumably inflated/deflated as
required.

Interested in other paddler's experiences and/or suggestions. 

Thanks in advance.

Damon
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From: Scott Ives <ssives_at_erols.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Sleeping in your sea kayak...
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 14:19:34 -0400
Damon,

  I think you are wrong about Dr. Lindemann.  I think he crossed the
Atlantic twice - first in a dugout canoe, and then in a double Klepper
folding kayak.  Of course, I'll defer to Ralph Diaz if I have the facts
wrong here!

Damon wrote

:...  Dr Lindemann's in a single inflatable with an outrigger, etc.

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From: Arthur Hebert <seacajun_at_gs.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Sleeping in your sea kayak...
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 17:02:27 -0500
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Ives <ssives_at_erols.com>
To: Howes, Damon - MAJ <howesd_at_eustis.army.mil>;
paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net <paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net>
Date: Monday, July 26, 1999 1:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Sleeping in your sea kayak...


>Damon,
>
>  I think you are wrong about Dr. Lindemann.  I think he crossed the
>Atlantic twice - first in a dugout canoe, and then in a double Klepper
>folding kayak.  Of course, I'll defer to Ralph Diaz if I have the facts
>wrong here!
>
>Damon wrote
>
>:...  Dr Lindemann's in a single inflatable with an outrigger, etc.

Damon was right single 17 feet long  36" beam
Arthur Hebert
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>

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From: <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Sleeping in your sea kayak...
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 19:14:34 -0700
Arthur Hebert wrote:
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Ives <ssives_at_erols.com>
> To: Howes, Damon - MAJ <howesd_at_eustis.army.mil>;
> paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net <paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net>
> Date: Monday, July 26, 1999 1:59 PM
> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Sleeping in your sea kayak...
> 
> >Damon,
> >
> >  I think you are wrong about Dr. Lindemann.  I think he crossed the
> >Atlantic twice - first in a dugout canoe, and then in a double Klepper
> >folding kayak.  Of course, I'll defer to Ralph Diaz if I have the facts
> >wrong here!
> >
> >Damon wrote
> >
> >:...  Dr Lindemann's in a single inflatable with an outrigger, etc.
> 
> Damon was right single 17 feet long  36" beam
> Arthur Hebert

Dr. Lindemann first did the trip in an African dugout freighter canoe. 
Then he decided to do it again.  It most definitely was not an
inflatable  boat nor was it a single.  It was a doublefolding kayak, a
Klepper Aerius II bought without fanfare from the company in Germany and
shipped to him in the Canary Islands.  They had no idea who he was nor
what he intended to do so it came to him in stock form.  The only
changes he made to the boat was to setup an outrigger, place a
mizzensail behind them with a half paddle for a mast, and had an extra
layer of canvas sewn on to the entire rear deck and slightly up
alongside him in the cockpit.

When I asked him in an interview for Sea Kayaker and my own newsletter
what was his most difficult moment he said "buying the boat!!"  He had
little money and was paying for everything out of his own pocket.

ralph diaz
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter
PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024
Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com
"Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag."
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From: Rainer Schroeter <kajaker_at_topmail.de>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Sleeping in your sea kayak...
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 10:40:58 +0200
> Dr. Lindemann first did the trip in an African dugout freighter
> canoe. Then he decided to do it again.  It most definitely was not
> an inflatable  boat nor was it a single.  It was a doublefolding
> kayak, a Klepper Aerius II bought without fanfare from the company
> in Germany and shipped to him in the Canary Islands.  They had no
> idea who he was nor what he intended to do so it came to him in
> stock form.  The only changes he made to the boat was to setup an
> outrigger, place a mizzensail behind them with a half paddle for a
> mast, and had an extra layer of canvas sewn on to the entire rear
> deck and slightly up alongside him in the cockpit.

If you are interested in a picture of Lindemanns boat, look at this:

http://www.deutsches-museum-bonn.de/meisterwerke/klepper/default.html

Rainer Schroeter
Marburg, Germany


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From: Arthur Hebert <seacajun_at_gs.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Sleeping in your sea kayak...
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 21:48:02 -0500
>> Damon was right single 17 feet long  36" beam
>> Arthur Hebert

>Ralph Diaz wrote;
It most definitely was not an
>inflatable  boat nor was it a single.  It was a doublefolding kayak, a
>Klepper Aerius II bought without fanfare from the company in Germany and
>shipped to him in the Canary Islands.  

I stand corrected, thanks for the info Ralph.
What was the length and beam of the Klepper Aerius ll, curious?
Arthur

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From: <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Sleeping in your sea kayak...
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 07:37:51 -0700
Arthur Hebert wrote:
> 
> >> Damon was right single 17 feet long  36" beam
> >> Arthur Hebert
> 
> >Ralph Diaz wrote;
> It most definitely was not an
> >inflatable  boat nor was it a single.  It was a doublefolding kayak, a
> >Klepper Aerius II bought without fanfare from the company in Germany and
> >shipped to him in the Canary Islands.
> 
> I stand corrected, thanks for the info Ralph.
> What was the length and beam of the Klepper Aerius ll, curious?
> Arthur

What you stated, more or less, i.e. about 17 ft long (actual measurement
is something like 16 ft 11 inches) and about 36 inch beam (I say "about"
since the amount of inflation of the sponsons will vary the beam a
smidgen).

ralph

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter
PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024
Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com
"Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag."
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From: <Sandykayak_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Sleeping in your sea kayak...
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 11:08:50 EDT
Just wanted to let everybody know that even after my disastrous (and 
expensive) attempt with Folboat's Aleut and Greenland II, I still maintained 
my subscription to Folding Kayaker because there are many excellent articles 
of general paddling interest - plus I want a K-Light one day and the back 
page is loaded with ads.

Just got the May/June (??? - running late, were we, Ralph?) issue and the 
cover story is "K-Light: Fresh Look At A New Classic."

I'll be in NYC from September 3 -12; hope I get to meet you Ralph.

Sandy Kramer
Miami, Florida
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From: <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Sleeping in your sea kayak...
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 11:33:11 -0700
Sandykayak_at_aol.com wrote:
> 
> Just wanted to let everybody know that even after my disastrous (and
> expensive) attempt with Folboat's Aleut and Greenland II, I still maintained
> my subscription to Folding Kayaker because there are many excellent articles
> of general paddling interest - plus I want a K-Light one day and the back
> page is loaded with ads.

Since this went out to the entire PaddleWise group, I thought I need to
address it.  The publication does concentrate on folding kayaks but per
force it will slip over into items that may be of a more general
paddling interest.  Items like Dealing With Traffic, Camping out of a
Small Kayak, etc. are examples.  But it really is about folding kayaks
and I don't want anyone to consider subscribing under false pretenses.

> 
> Just got the May/June (??? - running late, were we, Ralph?) issue and the
> cover story is "K-Light: Fresh Look At A New Classic."

Well, look at my surname; it's Latino...I operate on a Manana Calendar
:-)

The article on the K-Light mentioned here looks at the K-Light as new
classic.  The classic folding kayaks have previously been doubles such
as the Klepper Aerius II and the old Folbot Super.  This is the first
foldable single that has gotten that level of popularity and
ubiquitiousness that makes it a classic.

One of the aspects about the impact of the K-Light that I mentioned in
the article is that it is surprisingly fast compared to longer kayaks. 
Something I have observed and heard from many sources.  I just got email
from a woman in Maryland who wrote "I just got my most recent
newsletter.  It was great to
read about the K-Light being a classic!  I have been very happy with it
so far.  And I have been able to keep up with men that are much stronger
than I am in larger boats!  I am really glad you suggested this boat." 
It is something I hear so often that it makes me wonder why, except for
all out racing, why bother with longish boats that are more expensive,
heavier and awkward to deal with on land and in rooftopping.

> 
> I'll be in NYC from September 3 -12; hope I get to meet you Ralph.

This is a good opportunity to reiterate the standing invitation for
those visiting NYC.  Give me a call or drop me an email.  We may be able
to get you on the water out of the Downtown Boathouse and its public
boats.  Casey Walker recently wrote up his report to the Statue of
Liberty over the 4th of July weekend in the regular free trips the
Boathouse runs to there.  Others who have availed themselves include
Rich Mitchell a few years back.  Now if all 400 plus Paddlewisers show
up at once, well, we may have to force everyone to paddle in a New York
minute. :-)
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter
PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024
Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com
"Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

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From: Richard G. Mitchell, Jr. <mitchelr_at_ucs.orst.edu>
subject: [Paddlewise] Ralph the gracious host.
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 06:15:40 -0700
I must add that Ralph is one of New York's most gracious hosts.  His generous loan
of a boat and a trip to the Statue of Liberty at sunset were gifts long to be
cherished for which I remain most grateful.  I don't mean to sound maudlin but
everyone should reflect on the liberties we enjoy in a gently bobbing kayak beside
a thoughtful friend on a warm summer evening at the base of that great statue as
the lights of one of the world's great crucibles of culture, New York, begin to
sparkle on the skyline.  If you take that sort of experience for granted, or just
another boat trip, life has become less than it could be.  There are also a raft
of excellent modest priced restaurants a short jaunt away from the boat house and
Ralph's great company to share.  Thanks again, Ralph, for what you teach us about
folding boats, and about the lives they can enrich.


>
> This is a good opportunity to reiterate the standing invitation for
> those visiting NYC.  Give me a call or drop me an email.  We may be able
> to get you on the water out of the Downtown Boathouse and its public
> boats.  Casey Walker recently wrote up his report to the Statue of
> Liberty over the 4th of July weekend in the regular free trips the
> Boathouse runs to there.  Others who have availed themselves include
> Rich Mitchell a few years back.  Now if all 400 plus Paddlewisers show
> up at once, well, we may have to force everyone to paddle in a New York
> minute. :-)
> --
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter
> PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024
> Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com
> "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag."
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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--
Richard G. Mitchell, Jr.
Oregon State University
Department of Sociology
Corvallis, OR 97331
(541) 752-1323 phone/fax
mitchelr_at_ucs.orst.edu


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From: Bill Leonhardt <WJLeonhardt_at_bnl.gov>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Ralph the gracious host.
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 09:43:17 -0400
Richard Mitchell wrote:

>                                 If you take that sort of experience for
granted, or just
>another boat trip, life has become less than it could be.   

Very, very, very well said....
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From: <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Ralph the gracious host.
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 09:48:37 -0700
Richard G. Mitchell, Jr. wrote:
> 
> I must add that Ralph is one of New York's most gracious hosts.  His generous loan
> of a boat and a trip to the Statue of Liberty at sunset were gifts long to be
> cherished for which I remain most grateful.  I don't mean to sound maudlin but
> everyone should reflect on the liberties we enjoy in a gently bobbing kayak beside
> a thoughtful friend on a warm summer evening at the base of that great statue as
> the lights of one of the world's great crucibles of culture, New York, begin to
> sparkle on the skyline.  If you take that sort of experience for granted, or just
> another boat trip, life has become less than it could be.  There are also a raft
> of excellent modest priced restaurants a short jaunt away from the boat house and
> Ralph's great company to share.  Thanks again, Ralph, for what you teach us about
> folding boats, and about the lives they can enrich.

The neighborhood in which the Downtown Boathouse is located is Tribeca
which was in the news this last week because JFK Jr. lived there just 4
blocks or so from the Boathouse where he kept two kayaks. (Tribeca comes
from TRiangle BElow CAnal st.) The restaurant we went to with my wife
and a German-born friend was Bubby's one of JFK Jr.'s favorite spots. 
Also celebrities like Robert de Niro and Harvey Kreitel frequent the
place.  And of course visiting PaddleWise dignitaries such as Rich
Mitchell. :-)

When PaddleWiser Casey Walker was here on the 4th of July, I was hoping
to invite him for lunch at a local restaurant, Walker's because of the
name being the same as his surname, but he got away before I could make
the offer.  A corner of that restaurant was constantly peeking into the
shrine-like scene in front of Kennedy's building as the two buildings
abutt.

Again, if all 400 PaddleWisers show up at once, I think I will leave
town.  :-)

ralph diaz
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter
PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024
Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com
"Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag."
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From: Jackie Fenton <jackie_at_intelenet.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Ralph the gracious host.
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 10:29:07 -0700 (PDT)
> Again, if all 400 PaddleWisers show up at once, I think I will leave
> town.  :-)
> 
> ralph diaz

uhm... that would be approximately 550 PaddleWisers these days :-)

Jackie
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From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Sleeping in your sea kayak...
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 15:56:08 -0700
Sandykayak_at_aol.com wrote:
> 
> Just wanted to let everybody know that even after my disastrous (and
> expensive) attempt with Folboat's Aleut and Greenland II, I still maintained
> my subscription to Folding Kayaker [snip]

Hmmmmm?!!

I've owned a Greenland II for three seasons and find it a very satisfactory
boat, albeit not as spiffy as Feathercraft.  However, at half the cost, the
spiff/dollar ratio is about the same as for fancier boats.  Taken my G II all
over, and done a lot of extended touring in it.  Outfitted it with
"improvements," too.

What about the G II did not work for you?  (No need to detail the Aleut's
deficiencies -- it is so small I'd need one for each leg <G>!)

-- 
Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR
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From: <Sandykayak_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Sleeping in your sea kayak...
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 16:58:45 EDT
In a message dated 7/27/99 6:58:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
dkruger_at_pacifier.com writes:

<< 
 What about the G II [Folboat's Greenland II] did not work for you?  (No need 
to detail the Aleut's deficiencies -- it is so small I'd need one for each 
leg <G>!)

I bought Ralph's book and decided on Folboats because of the affordability 
and my estimated needs which were going to be relatively simple.  also, at 
that time I was living in a townhouse and boat storage was an important 
consideration.

I'm a 5'0", single, non-technically oriented woman.  I was overwhelmed with 
the whole thing.  I had it in the water once - for less than 30 mins. 

As for the Aleut:  I think it took me something like 2 or 3 hours to assemble 
(remember, I'm non-technical - I'm a writer!).   

I used it a few times, including one night "Sierra Club culinary canoe trip" 
where we had some weather on the return.  I felt completely safe - like a 
rubber ducky bobbing along.  So that was a good experience.

I really got turned off on a canal trip where everyone else was in hardshells 
and I felt as if I was riding a tricycle and everyone else was on 10-speeds!! 
 The clincher was when - and it was about a 6-hour paddling day - I realized 
that I was in absolute agony.  I know my butt was the worst problem, but I 
felt I never wanted to paddle that boat again.

Then, I had left it assembled and it froze on me.  I also managed to 
break/snap something as I tugged.  

I remember writing to the manufacturers and never getting a reply.  There's 
more, but I'm trying to forget!  Nightmare.

I know many people are very happy with Folboats.  I remember calling Ralph 
about his newsletter and telling him of my experience.  He said something 
like, "Yeah, they are slow compared to hardshells."  My paddling pals are 
mostly "hardshellers."

Sandy Kramer
  >>
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