The "Kayaking Routes of the Pacific Northwest" guidebook describes a few areas east of Desolation sound (on the way towards Toba inlet) as bear areas -- two on the mainland as "grizzley bear habitat", and one on the north east corner of West Redonda island as having a "healthy black bear population". Anyone know how frequent bear encounters are in this area? Being fairly cowardly kayakers, we're inclined to skip the grizzley areas altogether, even though the book describes them as having great camps (one wonders how great a camp is if you may have to share it with grizzlies). Also, many people say that black bears won't bother you as long as: (a) you don't corner them in any way; (b) you don't get between them and a cub or their food; (c) you don't have food near you or your camp (other than your own body, I suppose...); and (d) there aren't any menstruating paddlers with you. Any informed opinions on how reliable this advice is? I assume this is NOT true for grizzlies. If true for black bears, would it be ok to cook food in such a camp, or is it better to eat cold stuff? Evan *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Evan Dallas wrote: > Also, many people say that black bears won't bother you as long as: (a) you > don't corner them in any way; (b) you don't get between them and a cub or > their food; (c) you don't have food near you or your camp (other than your > own body, I suppose...); and (d) there aren't any menstruating paddlers > with you. Any informed opinions on how reliable this advice is? I assume > this is NOT true for grizzlies. If true for black bears, would it be ok to > cook food in such a camp, or is it better to eat cold stuff? a, b, c, and d are all good things to follow to MINIMIZE the chances a black bear will hassle you. After 35 years backpacking and yakking in black bear country in WA, OR, WY (some griz territory), ID, NV, and BC, summing up 30-40 nights/year, I calculate about 1100 nights out. I have had **three** encounters with black bears over that time, and in each case, the bear either ignored me (and walked around my camp -- food was out, sausage one time!) or took off like a scalded cat! Mind you, all of these interactions were with bears which were **not** habituated to associate humans with food they like to eat. Bears which are habituated to seek out human encampments as a food source are very different in their behavior. The places I have visited are almost entirely free of bears which might associate humans with food. Even so, by religiously stringing my food up at night and keeping **all** food items out of the tent, I have felt "safe." I also cook in a site maybe 50 - 100 feet away from my tent. Others avoid sleeping in the clothes they were wearing while cooking. I have never taken that precaution. None of this guarantees me freedom from black bear hassles. I'm just playing the odds. So far, I'm winning! -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Dave Said... "Mind you, all of these interactions were with bears which were **not** habituated to associate humans with food they like to eat. Bears which are habituated to seek out human encampments as a food source are very different in their behavior." Absolutely something good to keep in mind...my only bear encounters(here in the White Mountains of New Hampshire) happened a few weeks ago while camping in a roadside campground- not only did I wake up one morning with a large black bear peeking in my tent door(I could have poked him in the nose he was so close...I decide not too:)), but he came back later that evening and climbed up on a picnic table that we were all sitting at up until the bear arrived. He must have developed a fondness for Doritos and beer from previous campers. Sadly, once bears begin to make habits of certain campgrounds , they often end up destroyed(according to the ranger who showed up that evening) That said, the insane reaction of fellow campers in the campsite to the presence of the bear, and the realization that habitual and irresponsible use of campgrounds in bear country is leading to the creation of many more "bad bears" has made me vow to never again use a large public campground. I have been camping for years in bear areas-every time I have hung my food and taken special precautions, and I've never even seen a footprint in the morning... Sorry if this is a bit of a digression... *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Allison Corning wrote: > > Absolutely something good to keep in mind...my only bear encounters(here in > the White Mountains of New Hampshire) happened a few weeks ago while camping > in a roadside campground- <snip> > > Sorry if this is a bit of a digression... A bit of a digression, but not unbearable. Steve (did I say that?) -- Test Scoring and Reporting Services University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602-5593 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Allison Corning wrote: > > Dave Said... > "Mind you, all of these interactions were with bears which were **not** > habituated to associate humans with food they like to eat. Bears which are > habituated to seek out human encampments as a food source are very different > in their behavior." > > Absolutely something good to keep in mind...my only bear encounters(here in >SNIP< He must have developed a fondness for Doritos and beer from > previous campers. Sadly, once bears begin to make habits of certain > campgrounds , they often end up destroyed(according to the ranger who showed > up that evening) > That said, the insane reaction of fellow campers in the campsite to the > presence of the bear, and the realization that habitual and irresponsible > use of campgrounds in bear country is leading to the creation of many more > "bad bears" has made me vow to never again use a large public campground. I > have been camping for years in bear areas-every time I have hung my food and > taken special precautions, and I've never even seen a footprint in the > morning... > > Sorry if this is a bit of a digression... > > All very good advise! No matter how careful you are with your cooking and food stuff, you just may end up in the area that other less carefull campers have used, and have a bear problem because of that. Having spent many a day(and night)in prime grizzly country(Canada and Alaska), I have only had one insident with a grizzly that turned out badly, and that might have been differant if my wife and 2 year old son hadn't been with me. Even with that, I'll take "wild" grizzlys everytime over camp smart black bears anytime. http://www.missoulian.com/display/inn_montana_news/news1.txt http://www.dailyinterlake.com/main_story.html-ssi This guy had hiked amoung grizzlys for 20 years and had no problem. Likely got careless.? James *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
The expectation here in the NE is that bear/human encounters will increase materially this Fall. The drought has pretty well cut down berry and other crops they'll need to fatten up on. Here in NJ at least one "camp" bear had to be destroyed already, and rangers are beginning to use the rubber bullets to try to discourage them from entering some of the campgrounds along the Delaware River. On another note, some friends who'd been camping in Maine said that the bears up there have already figured out that they have to bite to rope at the base to get the food down from the branches........ JP >Absolutely something good to keep in mind...my only bear encounters(here in >the White Mountains of New Hampshire) happened a few weeks ago while camping >in a roadside campground- not only did I wake up one morning with a large >black bear peeking in my tent door(I could have poked him in the nose he was >so close...I decide not too:)), but he came back later that evening and >climbed up on a picnic table that we were all sitting at up until the bear >arrived. He must have developed a fondness for Doritos and beer from >previous campers. Sadly, once bears begin to make habits of certain >campgrounds , they often end up destroyed(according to the ranger who showed >up that evening) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Joe Pylka wrote: > The expectation here in the NE is that bear/human encounters will increase > materially this Fall. The drought has pretty well cut down berry and other > crops they'll need to fatten up on. Here in NJ at least one "camp" bear had > to be destroyed already, and rangers are beginning to use the rubber bullets > to try to discourage them from entering some of the campgrounds along the > Delaware River. > On another note, some friends who'd been camping in Maine said that the > bears up there have already figured out that they have to bite to rope at > the base to get the food down from the branches........ > JP With all this talk of bears I felt the need to share a few seconds of footage shot in Lassen Volcanic National Park, CA Memorial Day weekend, 1999. http://microtech.com/beatty/bear1.mpg rb *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Evan Dallas wrote: > > > Also, many people say that black bears won't bother you as > long as: (a) you > > don't corner them in any way; (b) you don't get between > them and a cub or > > their food; (c) you don't have food near you or your camp > (other than your > > own body, I suppose...); and (d) there aren't any > menstruating paddlers > > with you. Any informed opinions on how reliable this > advice is? I assume > > this is NOT true for grizzlies. If true for black bears, > would it be ok to > > cook food in such a camp, or is it better to eat cold stuff? > Dave Kruger responded: > a, b, c, and d are all good things to follow to MINIMIZE the > chances a black > bear will hassle you. After 35 years backpacking and yakking > in black bear > country in WA, OR, WY (some griz territory), ID, NV, and BC, > summing up 30-40 > nights/year, I calculate about 1100 nights out. I have had **three** > encounters with black bears over that time, and in each case, > the bear either > ignored me (and walked around my camp -- food was out, > sausage one time!) or > took off like a scalded cat! > > Mind you, all of these interactions were with bears which were **not** > habituated to associate humans with food they like to eat. > Bears which are > habituated to seek out human encampments as a food source are > very different > in their behavior. > > The places I have visited are almost entirely free of bears > which might > associate humans with food. Even so, by religiously > stringing my food up at > night and keeping **all** food items out of the tent, I have > felt "safe." I > also cook in a site maybe 50 - 100 feet away from my tent. > Others avoid > sleeping in the clothes they were wearing while cooking. I > have never taken > that precaution. > > None of this guarantees me freedom from black bear hassles. > I'm just playing > the odds. So far, I'm winning! The thing that I always try to keep in mind when camping or hiking in brown bear (ie. grizzly) territory is that I am in _their_ territory and that _they_ are at the top of the food chain. Behave like a creature that doesn't want to be eaten. Dave Kruger's comment about not cooking in camp applies to eating as well - no food in camp! That being said, the bear maulings that we've had in SE Alaska this year have almost all occurred because the individual accidentally disturbed a sow with cubs. Brown bear can be unpredictable - avoidance is the best policy. When hiking or in camp make noise - let them know where you are. There aren't many things worse than a surprised brown bear! Pick your campsite wisely - don't bed down along the tumbling bank of the local salmon stream or right next to that patch of nice tender grass or next to that old dead log full of tasty grubs. My favorite spot to view brown bear is from about 200 yds with my binoculars while safely seated in my kayak! Dave Seng Juneau, Alaska *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Dave Kruger has some good advice about bear encounters. For the most part I've camped and paddled in places where the "bear situation" is usually less serious in the sense that there are no grizzlies. (In Algonquin and LaVenrendrie parks in Canada there are "brown bears" - grizzlies - but in NY state and Maine, there are only black bears as far as I know). However, in many of these places there are many, many black bears, some of which are habituated to humans, and to having human campsites as a source of food. I've never heard of a black bear attacking a person or campsite because of a menstruating woman; I've read that grizzles have done that on occasion. In several hundred nights of camping, I've had three close bear encounters. On one occasion when when I was young (this is quite a long time ago) and even stupider than I am now, there was food in the camp, a black bear came into the camp during the night, but left promptly when I banged on a pot. On two other occasions, I or one of my children came across a bear on a trail. Neither of these two bears was at all interested in the humans. Bears around central NY have become a real nuisance in some areas, because of careless campers and because there are open garbage dumps in some townships. They have been known to drive campers from their campsites. If a bear were at all persistent, black bear or not, I'd leave my campsite and gear to the bear. These days I make quite a practice of cooking 100 yds or so from camp, not bringing any food at all into the tent, hanging food or if there are no trees, covering the food in a plastic tarp and spraying the tarp heavily with mosquito repellent. I've been very lucky - have never lost any food or gear. When hiking, I (we) try to make lots of noise, though we avoid those "bear bells" which one sees so often in parks in the western US. Black bears, treated with respect, are unlikely to be dangerous. Brown bears are completely unpedictable, but are usually quite shy of humans. When camping out west or in Alaska, I've considered myself lucky to see brown bears at a distance. Bill Hansen *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Bhansen97_at_aol.com wrote: > I've never heard of a black bear attacking a person or campsite because of a > menstruating woman; I've read that grizzles have done that on occasion. I believe most experts are calling this one a myth these days. An issue, however, is the disposal of used feminine hygiene products. They can smell like something the bear might be interested in, so should be treated with the same care as food waste etc. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
(In Algonquin and >LaVenrendrie parks in Canada there are "brown bears" - grizzlies - but in NY >state and Maine, there are only black bears as far as I know). Grizzlies in Ontario? Grizzlies are not found east of Alberta in Canada. We only have black bears here maybe the odd Polar bear in the far north of the province, but no Grizzlies. Bill >Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 07:25:45 EDT >From: Bhansen97_at_aol.com >Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Paddlewise: Grizzlies in Desolation Sound? > >Dave Kruger has some good advice about bear encounters. For the most part >I've camped and paddled in places where the "bear situation" is usually less >serious in the sense that there are no grizzlies. (In Algonquin and >LaVenrendrie parks in Canada there are "brown bears" - grizzlies - but in NY >state and Maine, there are only black bears as far as I know). However, in >many of these places there are many, many black bears, some of which are >habituated to humans, and to having human campsites as a source of food. > >I've never heard of a black bear attacking a person or campsite because of a >menstruating woman; I've read that grizzles have done that on occasion. > >In several hundred nights of camping, I've had three close bear encounters. >On one occasion when when I was young (this is quite a long time ago) and >even stupider than I am now, there was food in the camp, a black bear came >into the camp during the night, but left promptly when I banged on a pot. On >two other occasions, I or one of my children came across a bear on a trail. >Neither of these two bears was at all interested in the humans. > >Bears around central NY have become a real nuisance in some areas, because of >careless campers and because there are open garbage dumps in some townships. >They have been known to drive campers from their campsites. If a bear were at >all persistent, black bear or not, I'd leave my campsite and gear to the bear. > >These days I make quite a practice of cooking 100 yds or so from camp, not >bringing any food at all into the tent, hanging food or if there are no >trees, covering the food in a plastic tarp and spraying the tarp heavily with >mosquito repellent. I've been very lucky - have never lost any food or gear. > >When hiking, I (we) try to make lots of noise, though we avoid those "bear >bells" which one sees so often in parks in the western US. > >Black bears, treated with respect, are unlikely to be dangerous. Brown bears >are completely unpedictable, but are usually quite shy of humans. When >camping out west or in Alaska, I've considered myself lucky to see brown >bears at a distance. > >Bill Hansen > >------------------------------ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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