Years ago, when I first got into sea kayaking and discovered these email lists, I couldn't believe how willing people were ready to talk about their favorite "secret" spots. I kept thinking that if it were me, I wouldn't tell a sole. It made me feel selfish, and I actually questioned who I was on these observations. I find it ironic that this discussion would come up in of all places "PaddleWise". To read that John Winter's has places he wouldn't share with anyone makes me feel less selfish. Even though I've had two kids, I've long felt that we have passed a proper population on this planet. I guess in some weird way I don't feel guilty about my two kids, because they are only two and not 4 or 10 like many of us. Like I said, weird justification eh? Truth of the matter is there are so many of us that we can't help but pollute/ruin our environment. Try as I might not to add to this problem, I still do everytime I gas on down to the old river/bay. Not sure what to say now.... Brian. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Brian wrote; >Years ago, when I first got into sea kayaking and discovered >these email lists, I couldn't believe how willing people were >ready to talk about their favorite "secret" spots. I kept thinking >that if it were me, I wouldn't tell a sole. It made me feel >selfish, and I actually questioned who I was on these observations. > (SNIP) I really don't feel selfish about keeping my "secret places" . In a way, keeping them secret protects them. I expect some people might take offense at what Matt Broze said but he raises perfectly valid points that I wholeheartedly endorse when feeling pessimistic about my fellow paddlers (and myself during moments of introspection on solo trips). I often get twinges when I see garbage etc. at campsites and wonder if something I said or wrote led the pig to the wilderness. I understand the argument for education but don't see it as an answer because of its strictly voluntary nature. People don't "have" to learn anything to go paddling. I think we all know the answer but few of us would be willing to participate. Incidentally, for those of you truly interested in the solution, visit http://www.teleport.com/~dkossy/vhemt.html I could not access the VHEMT site for some reason. You might give it a try at http://www.vhemt.org/ Maybe you will have more luck. Cheers, John Winters Redwing Designs Web site address, http://home.ican.net/~735769 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 9/25/99 7:53:52 PM, 735769_at_ican.net writes: >I think we all know the answer but few of us would be willing to > >participate. Incidentally, for those of you truly interested in the > >solution, visit http://www.teleport.com/~dkossy/vhemt.html Gosh, such a cheerful site. So glad my browser was able to access it... Scott Contemplating having lots o kids now..... ;-) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> From: "735769" <735769_at_ican.net> <snip> > I expect some people might take offense at what Matt Broze said but he > raises perfectly valid points that I wholeheartedly endorse when feeling > pessimistic about my fellow paddlers (and myself during moments of > introspection on solo trips). > > I often get twinges when I see garbage etc. at campsites and wonder if > something I said or wrote led the pig to the wilderness. I understand the > argument for education but don't see it as an answer because of its > strictly voluntary nature. People don't "have" to learn anything to go > paddling. It's probably not the complete answer, but I'll argue it's better than sitting on one's butt waiting for the inevitable, worrying about it or fretting over it. What about digging outhouses in these spots? Seems like that's what people are looking for. I suspect most of these offenders would rather use an outhouse than the bushes. When it fills, do what the parks department does... dig another hole. > I think we all know the answer but few of us would be willing to > participate. Incidentally, for those of you truly interested in the > solution, visit http://www.teleport.com/~dkossy/vhemt.html I don't understand why you think this is the answer when it, too, is strictly voluntary and also requires education. I'll give you that I obviously have not regularly experienced the degradation of camp sites and paddling areas that you have. But I have seen a difference that education can make (such as the very effective anti-litter campaign sponsored by the Texas Highways Department). Yes, I've seen disgusting trash left behind by some real disgusting slobs. I've picked it up when I could. Ticked me off, but I've picked it up. I've also watched paddlers work really hard to clean up after not only themselves, but complete strangers. Slobs they never saw leave the trash they left behind. I've camped in some really nice spots because of that. I suspect you have, too and maybe you weren't aware. The truth about saving the planet is that the real drive behind it is to save our own butts. That's why VHEMT won't work. People are too interested in seeing that the human species survives. The key is to convince them the best chance for human survival is to protect their environment. How do you do that? Show them what happens when they don't. Educate. Regards, Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> From: "735769" <735769_at_ican.net> > > I think we all know the answer but few of us would be willing to > participate. Incidentally, for those of you truly interested in the > solution, visit http://www.teleport.com/~dkossy/vhemt.html Ok. I re-read this. VHEMT has got to be about the dumbest thing I have ever read. These people deserve the Darwin award and I deserve the dunce award for falling for this. I know John is pulling our legs and I swallowed this one hook, line and sinker. 8-} Chalk it up to not enough sleep. yawn... Cheers, Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Jackie wrote; > >Ok. I re-read this. VHEMT has got to be about the dumbest thing I >have ever read. These people deserve the Darwin award and I deserve >the dunce award for falling for this. I know John is pulling our >legs and I swallowed this one hook, line and sinker. 8-} > >Chalk it up to not enough sleep. yawn... Whew, for a moment I thought everyone might think I was serious. Just about gave me heart failure. I search for hours on the net to find sites like this to cheer people up - kind of a public service like teaching people to roll their own. Sure don't want anyone getting depressed. Professor does not have a monopoly on the off-beat sense of humour. Cheers, John Winters Redwing Designs Web site address, http://home.ican.net/~735769 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Scott wrote; >In a message dated 9/25/99 7:53:52 PM, 735769_at_ican.net writes: > >>I think we all know the answer but few of us would be willing to >> >>participate. Incidentally, for those of you truly interested in the >> >>solution, visit http://www.teleport.com/~dkossy/vhemt.html > > Gosh, such a cheerful site. So glad my browser was able to access it... > Knew you would like it. I recommend it to all my friends. They call me Mister Sunshine. :-) Cheers, John Winters Redwing Designs Web site address, http://home.ican.net/~735769 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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