Paddlewisers, To add to the rudder debate, I think using a rudder makes steering by compass a lot easier. On my last crossing there was poor visibility, and I paddled 16 NM before being able to spot my island destination 2 more NM away. With the wind and waves constantly changing the kayak heading, it was nice to be able to quickly correct back to my proper heading by moving my toes rather than edging and using corrective strokes, especially for this long distance. With a rudder, it is easier to keep on the proper heading more steadily and accurately, which improves navigation. Duane Strosaker Southern California *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
"With a rudder, it is easier to keep on the proper heading more steadily and accurately, which improves navigation." I don't agree. I can keep to a compass course as easily, or more easily, paddling without a rudder. I find a paddle rhythm that harmonises with the sea state and the shape of the seas becomes a part of the course-keeping. You have to do the same thing with a rudder or you end up swerving around. I find that with or without the rudder you need a really harmonious go -with-the-flow kind of stroke to hold a steady course in rough water. For me this harmonious paddle rhythm comes more easily with no rudder. I have used rudders on boats that needed them, I use a rudder on my sailing canoe, my old klepper tandem was easier to paddle with the rudder in the water (you couldn't raise it anyway). I have navigated in dense fog by compass and I have covered many miles using rudders but now that I have a boat that paddles well without a rudder I find that all aspects of my paddling have improved, and I'm enjoying paddling more. Some boats I have paddled need a rudder for course keeping, others do not. Today I was out paddling my Mariner Express on Puget sound. The wind was a steady 21 knots, gusting to 23, according to the recording anemometer at West point. The wind was SSE, so the fetch at Shilshole was a bit less than usual in a southerly, which made for short steep waves moving at a good clip (with the tide). I spent some time practicing quick turns up into the wind and, following Matt's advice, I tried edging the boat an extra few degrees as I leaned on the sweep stroke. The boat came up into the wind MUCH more quickly with just a little more edging. The effect was startling. In making 180 degree turns I found that as the boat came around parrallel to the short steep waves (discouraging me from tiping the boat too dramatically down wave) I could keep the turn moving by really bouncing the edge down extra far while getting support from the sweep stroke. I think if I add small foam pads on the (upper) sides of the hull a few inches aft of my knees I will get an even more positive grip on the boat with my legs, and this might help me push this more extreme edging even farther. Nick Lyle *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
While on the subject of rudders and everyone braggin' about not using them (yawning with tongue firmly planted in cheek), I was wondering if anyone out there paddles a Sea Lion without a rudder. Cheers, Dave Dave Williams dave_at_paddleasia.com http://paddleasia.com Phuket, Thailand *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Dave, If memory serves me correctly, the steering device on a Sea Lion is properly referred to as a flipper and not a rudder. I haven't had the nerve to actually paddle a Sea Lion (with or without a rudder), as I've heard that they can be aggressive at close range, and visualizing bonking one on the head using my rudder (I don't ever use it for steering - so why not <big grin>) makes me wonder how good my bracing skills would need to be. - Happy Paddling - Saul -----Original Message----- From: owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net]On Behalf Of Dave Williams Sent: Monday, September 06, 1999 6:53 PM To: paddlewise Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Rudders (yawn) While on the subject of rudders and everyone braggin' about not using them (yawning with tongue firmly planted in cheek), I was wondering if anyone out there paddles a Sea Lion without a rudder. Cheers, Dave Dave Williams dave_at_paddleasia.com http://paddleasia.com Phuket, Thailand *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Another Sealion paddler with rudder here. I use my rudder and I like it. I really dont care what the purists think. I am out there because I love the water and paddling, and if the rudder makes it easier, FINE! However on a lighter side, there is one problem I experienced with the rudder. While paddling down the Allegheny river, I paddled within 5 ft. of a deer, that was crossing the river in very shallow water. My aluminum rudder was down and struck a rock and alerted the deer of my presence. He had no idea I was there, he never saw or heard me until then. I was so close I could have petted him. It was COOL!!! Dana __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 11:55 AM 9/7/99 -0700, Dana VerHague wrote: >Another Sealion paddler with rudder here. I use my rudder and I like >it. I really dont care what the purists think. I am out there because I >love the water and paddling, and if the rudder makes it easier, FINE! I don't think it's as much a purist issue as it is a safety issue. If someone relies too much on a rudder in lieu of learning strong bracing skills they may be taking a safety risk. Whether or not someone chooses to use a rudder is a personal choice. Learning strong bracing skills is a necessity if one ever paddles in a place where conditions might take a turn for the worse. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
John Fereira wrote - >I don't think it's as much a purist issue as it is a safety issue. If someone >relies too much on a rudder in lieu of learning strong bracing skills they may >be taking a safety risk. Whether or not someone chooses to use a rudder >is a personal choice. Learning strong bracing skills is a necessity if one >ever paddles in a place where conditions might take a turn for the worse. I just about always use a rudder and have to have strong bracing skills. Bracing is a function of hull design/stability and the type of water paddled in, nothing to do with a rudder or no rudder. Learning strong bracing skills is necessary for enjoyable playing in surf, with or without the rudder down. Maybe you mean sweep strokes? Often wasteful in terms of efficient paddling. Alex Alex (Sandy) Ferguson Chemistry Department University of Canterbury New Zealand *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Dana VerHague wrote: > > Another Sealion paddler with rudder here. I use my rudder and I like > it. I really dont care what the purists think. I am out there because I > love the water and paddling, and if the rudder makes it easier, FINE! > ...<snip>... Hey, there aren't any purists here. Some of my best friends use rudders. Whatever floats your boat. (Or controls its direction, in this case.) To each his own. Live and let live. Variety is the spice of life. A stitch in time saves nine. (I never really understood that last one, so I'm including it just in case it applies...) BTW, excellent point, Bob, about rudders and PFDs. ;-) Rudders are also a poor substitute for a good bottle of Merlot. The list is endless... Happy paddling! Dan Hagen *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Sep 7, 15:51, John Fereira wrote: } Subject: RE:[Paddlewise] - Sea Lions - was Rudders (yawn) > At 11:55 AM 9/7/99 -0700, Dana VerHague wrote: > >Another Sealion paddler with rudder here. I use my rudder and I like > >it. I really dont care what the purists think. I am out there because I > >love the water and paddling, and if the rudder makes it easier, FINE! > > I don't think it's as much a purist issue as it is a safety issue. If someone > relies too much on a rudder in lieu of learning strong bracing skills they may > be taking a safety risk. Whether or not someone chooses to use a rudder > is a personal choice. Learning strong bracing skills is a necessity if one > ever paddles in a place where conditions might take a turn for the worse. Yeah, but I'd like to point out the danger of relying on a rudder instead of wearing a PFD. There's no way that using a rudder can compensate for not wearing a PFD. Just thought I'd point that out. -- Bob Myers InteleNet Communications, Inc. Email: bob_at_InteleNet.net 18101 Von Karman Avenue, Suite 550 Phone: 949-851-8250 x227 Irvine, CA 92612 Fax: 949-851-1088 http://www.intelenet.net/ InteleNet Communications is a subsidiary of FirstWorld Communications, Inc. http://www.firstworld.com/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I learned to paddle in a Sea Lion without using the rudder and only bothered with it once a year to make sure it still worked and familiarize myself with its operation. However, I always found it a nuisance on backcountry portages and it got in the way when I rolled. So I finally took it off altogether and fixed the footbraces in place. After I customized the cockpit with additional minicell at the hips and under the thighbraces, I realized the importance of a nice snug fit (not only for steering but everything else). I paddle on Lake Michigan and Lake Huron, sometimes in pretty windy conditions. That Next Upgrade will come without a rudder. Dave Williams wrote: > While on the subject of rudders and everyone braggin' about not using them > (yawning with tongue firmly planted in cheek), I was wondering if anyone out > there paddles a Sea Lion without a rudder. > > Cheers, > Dave > > Dave Williams > dave_at_paddleasia.com > http://paddleasia.com > Phuket, Thailand > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Tue, 7 Sep 1999, Dave Williams wrote: > While on the subject of rudders and everyone braggin' about not using them > (yawning with tongue firmly planted in cheek), I was wondering if anyone out > there paddles a Sea Lion without a rudder. > > My Sea Lion has a rudder, but I guess I drop it less than 10% of the time, and only when I have trouble with weathercocking from a quartering wind from the stern. Steve Cramer *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I don't recommend paddling Sea Lions with or without a rudder. They have pretty big teeth and having just been bitten by a dog (minor but taking antibiotics, she had rabies vac) a Sea Lion would be even worse. --Mel-- =^..^= mslammers_at_earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: Dave Williams [mailto:paddler_at_loxinfo.co.th] Sent: Monday, September 06, 1999 5:53 PM To: paddlewise Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Rudders (yawn) While on the subject of rudders and everyone braggin' about not using them (yawning with tongue firmly planted in cheek), I was wondering if anyone out there paddles a Sea Lion without a rudder. Cheers, Dave Dave Williams dave_at_paddleasia.com http://paddleasia.com Phuket, Thailand *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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