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From: K. Whilden <kwhilden_at_u.washington.edu>
subject: [Paddlewise] floating campsites
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 15:11:17 -0700 (PDT)
Hey Folks,

Ealier this summer, I spent a week paddling around Santa Cruz Island with
my parents powerboat as a base camp. I sincerely apologize for not giving
a trip report, although I could de a belated one if asked. I was lucky to
have my parents boat to sleep on, since 3/4 of the island is off limits to
camping; and so I was able to see an area that relatively few kayakers get
to see, including the painted cave. It was so incredibly beautiful that I
was already thinking about a circumnavigation around the island next
summer -- that is until I learned about the no-camping rule from Harold at
Southwind (a paddlewise denzien btw).

Now here is where I want to make use of a rarely explicitly discussed
but extremely useful characteristic of the Paddlewise list. Namely, to
post the kernel of a half-formed good idea, and let it be melted down by
the so called "crucible of experts" who reside in Paddlewise-land, until
that idea is either refined enough to be completely viable in practice, or
exposed to be completely ludicrous.

So here's my idea: To take an inflatable K-mart special raft for the
express purpose of anchoring the raft in 10-15' feet of water in the
multitude of nice sandy-bottomed and protected-from-weather coves that
litter the coast of Santa Cruz -- and then sleeping thereupon, in a bivvy
sack of course. The raft would be deflated and stored in the hold of the
kayak during the day, and it would probably have to be relatively dry in
the 1-2 feet of wind chop that often enter the coves at night.

So what do you think? Does such a raft exist that might hold my 6'2" body
comfortably, while not taking up too much space in the hold? Is this a
good idea to avoid lawless poaching of campsites?

Cheers,
kevin

                         -------------------------------
                         |        Kevin Whilden         |
                         |     kwhilden_at_seanet.com      |
                         |   Kayak Academy Instructor   |
                         | http://www.halcyon.com/kayak |
                         -------------------------------

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From: Elaine Harmon <eharmon_at_cs.miami.edu>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] floating campsites
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 22:59:53 -0400 (EDT)
On Mon, 4 Oct 1999, K. Whilden wrote:

> So here's my idea: To take an inflatable K-mart special raft for the
> express purpose of anchoring the raft in 10-15' feet of water in the
> multitude of nice sandy-bottomed and protected-from-weather coves that
> litter the coast of Santa Cruz -- and then sleeping thereupon, in a bivvy
> sack of course. The raft would be deflated and stored in the hold of the
> kayak during the day, and it would probably have to be relatively dry in
> the 1-2 feet of wind chop that often enter the coves at night.
> 
> So what do you think? 

I think it's a great idea. The current Campmor catalog shows (p. 260)
several small inflatables, e.g. the Sevylor K65, 94"x55" (deflated!, so
maybe just long enough), 8 1/2 lb. $35. Guess you'd want to rig a hammock
or something to keep you above the wet bottom? Have to carry it on your
deck to the cave, set it up, anchor or tie it securely to something and
use it for a base camp, I guess. Or maybe it would fold up enough to
travel with, depending on how much else you carry. But how would you get
it out if you had it in your "hold" and were alone? Do these caves
commonly have beach at the back? I'm assuming not.

Please keep us posted on however you end up doing this, and what happens.
I'd like to try it. e

Elaine Harmon - eilidh_at_dc.seflin.org - eharmon_at_cs.miami.edu

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From: K. Whilden <kwhilden_at_u.washington.edu>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] floating campsites
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 21:02:32 -0700 (PDT)
Actually, I would do the camping in coves, not in caves. There are a
myriad number of small coves along the shore of Santa Cruz, all with
beaches at the back. The routine would be to eat dinner and relax on
shore, and then just before dark, inflate the raft and head out to deeper
water. I would use a "light" anchor to hold the raft in place, and sleep
inside my goretex-alike Bibler bivvy sack to keep my sleeping bag dry. 

Thanks for the tip on the seyvlor inflatables. These boats look stable
enough, and probably have high enough pontoons to prevent water splashing
in from wind waves. The three person might be a little bit short for me
to fully lie down inside, but the four person would definitely do it. At
16lbs, it's a little heavy, although it would be worth it to kayak around
Santa Cruz. 

I guess one real concern would be what happens if the unthinkable happens
and the raft overturns while sleeping? Would I be trapped inside my bivvy
sack? It might be hard to unzip from the inside. Brings a new
meaning to the term wet exit. Perhaps this should be something that I
practice at home first.

Kevin

On Mon, 4 Oct 1999, Elaine Harmon wrote:

> I think it's a great idea. The current Campmor catalog shows (p. 260)
> several small inflatables, e.g. the Sevylor K65, 94"x55" (deflated!, so
> maybe just long enough), 8 1/2 lb. $35. Guess you'd want to rig a hammock
> or something to keep you above the wet bottom? Have to carry it on your
> deck to the cave, set it up, anchor or tie it securely to something and
> use it for a base camp, I guess. Or maybe it would fold up enough to
> travel with, depending on how much else you carry. But how would you get
> it out if you had it in your "hold" and were alone? Do these caves
> commonly have beach at the back? I'm assuming not.
> 
> Please keep us posted on however you end up doing this, and what happens.
> I'd like to try it. e
> 
> Elaine Harmon - eilidh_at_dc.seflin.org - eharmon_at_cs.miami.edu
> 
> 

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From: Frank Montbriand <fmont_at_capital.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] floating campsites
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 18:36:33 -0400
> I guess one real concern would be what happens if the unthinkable happens
> and the raft overturns while sleeping? Would I be trapped inside my bivvy
> sack? It might be hard to unzip from the inside.

A person died in Vt. when the tent he was sleeping in fell of a raft or the
raft turned over...not sure which occurred. Even if you were sleeping with
your knife, I think it would be very disorientating. Not something that
appeals to me.

frank montbriand
fmont_at_capital.net

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From: Elaine Harmon <eharmon_at_cs.miami.edu>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] floating campsites
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 01:00:25 -0400 (EDT)
On Mon, 4 Oct 1999, K. Whilden wrote:

> Actually, I would do the camping in coves, not in caves. 

Oh well, then I'm not so excited about it. Will you rig a tarp over you in
case of rain, supported by shock-corded tent poles wedged between the side
tubes? 

> I guess one real concern would be what happens if the unthinkable happens
> and the raft overturns while sleeping? Would I be trapped inside my bivvy
> sack? 

If it's one of those that are a self-contained wee tent, like mine, I'd be
concerned! Think I'd use the tarp, and sleep with the bivy 2/3 up only.

It might be hard to unzip from the inside. Brings a new
> meaning to the term wet exit. Perhaps this should be something that I
> practice at home first.

Nah, that's cheating. e

Elaine Harmon - eilidh_at_dc.seflin.org - eharmon_at_cs.miami.edu

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From: <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] floating campsites
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 21:30:01 -0700
Frank Montbriand wrote:
> 
> > I guess one real concern would be what happens if the unthinkable happens
> > and the raft overturns while sleeping? Would I be trapped inside my bivvy
> > sack? It might be hard to unzip from the inside.
> 
> A person died in Vt. when the tent he was sleeping in fell of a raft or the
> raft turned over...not sure which occurred. Even if you were sleeping with
> your knife, I think it would be very disorientating. Not something that
> appeals to me.
> 
> frank montbriand
> fmont_at_capital.net

Back about six years ago I had an article in my newsletter about a
fellow fitting a tent to his double Klepper for sleeping in.  He took
the floor out of the tent, i.e. it was a not too expensive tend and he
felt free to do this.  You wouldn't want to do this with a top-of-the
line tent.

Taking the floor out would avoid that possible entrapment.

ralph
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter
PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024
Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com
"Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag."
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From: Joe Pylka <pylka_at_castle.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] floating campsites
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 23:23:17 -0400
>Back about six years ago I had an article in my newsletter about a
>fellow fitting a tent to his double Klepper for sleeping in.  He took
>the floor out of the tent, i.e. it was a not too expensive tend and he
>felt free to do this.  You wouldn't want to do this with a top-of-the
>line tent.
        Once, long ago, you could find tents like this.  In some old ACA
yearbooks from the teens and twenties there are photos of encampments where
the tent is raised on and above the canoe itself, about 2/3 the length of
the boat and just about its width.  The boat, of course, is on dry land.
The paddler removes the center thwarts and sets his sleeping bag and gear on
the floor of the boat.

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From: <HTERVORT_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] floating campsites
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 01:05:53 EDT
In a message dated 10/4/99 9:07:18 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
kwhilden_at_u.washington.edu writes:

<< Actually, I would do the camping in coves, not in caves. There are a
 myriad number of small coves along the shore of Santa Cruz, all with
 beaches at the back. The routine would be to eat dinner and relax on
 shore, and then just before dark, inflate the raft and head out to deeper
 water. >>

Kevin, 

WRT Santa Cruz Island:  I haven't checked lately, but (as you stated) they 
have never allowed kayak camping on the island.  But more important to your 
idea, The Nature Conservancy considers it trespassing if you even set foot on 
any part of the island owned by them, unless you have obtained (purchased) a 
landing permit from them in advance.  Therefore, you would legally need to 
obtain a permit to land for dinner.  Unfortunately, they have never (to my 
knowledge) issued permits for the coastal regions you might want to stop.

Another possibility might be to contact the dive companies that run trips out 
to SCI and see if you could arrange to land on one of their boats for the 
night. 

BTW, in California, all land exposed on the coastline *with the exception of 
the Channel Islands*, is legally public land and open to access up to (but 
not above) the high water line (high of high waters).  So, you can legally 
land (but not camp) on any shore except those parts of the islands which are 
in private ownership.

Tell your folks to never sell their boat. :^)

H.
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From: K. Whilden <kwhilden_at_u.washington.edu>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] floating campsites
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 08:24:35 -0700 (PDT)
Harold,
I had of course planned to buy a day-use permit for my proposed
circumnavigation of SCI. But I had assumed that the day use permit from
the Nature Conservancy blanket covered the whole island that they own. Is
this not the case? If they only issue permits for parts of the island,
there could be a problem with my idea, or there could be a couple of long
days at sea. Also, doesn't the National Park owned section of the island
allow camping on shore?
Cheers,
Kevin 


On Wed, 6 Oct 1999 HTERVORT_at_aol.com wrote:
> 
> WRT Santa Cruz Island:  I haven't checked lately, but (as you stated) they 
> have never allowed kayak camping on the island.  But more important to your 
> idea, The Nature Conservancy considers it trespassing if you even set foot on 
> any part of the island owned by them, unless you have obtained (purchased) a 
> landing permit from them in advance.  Therefore, you would legally need to 
> obtain a permit to land for dinner.  Unfortunately, they have never (to my 
> knowledge) issued permits for the coastal regions you might want to stop.
> 

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From: tompage <tompage_at_sarahleonard.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] floating campsites
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 20:19:19 -0400
Once I sketched out an idea for two kayaks to join together in tandem with
cross bars.  A fabric stretched across would form a platform for cooking and
sleeping.  Then one could anchor in shallow, protected coves without having
to go ashore on fragile islands or areas where camping is not allowed.  Of
course, quite a bit more engineering is needed to make the rig lightweight,
strong, and practical.

I believe Herreshoff cruised in a small catamaran as a lad.  Anyone ever
hear of such an arrangement for kayaks?

Tom

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From: Elaine Harmon <eharmon_at_cs.miami.edu>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] floating campsites
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 21:18:58 -0400 (EDT)
On Wed, 6 Oct 1999, tompage wrote:

> Once I sketched out an idea for two kayaks to join together in tandem with
> cross bars.  A fabric stretched across would form a platform for cooking and
> sleeping.  

I love it! Let's start a thread, even if it has to be interested parties
privately. Some design basepoints might be taken from the catarafts (?).

First, what are the constraints with respect to: Transportability: Length
and width and weight of largest bundle. Total weight, assuming only 2 (?)
boats. Minimum platform dimensions? Pounds of extra flotation
(inflatable?) needed? etc.

I really do think something which accomplishes this, in a low-tech way
doable by anyone with access to ordinary sources, would be a terrific
asset to the coastal paddling community in some places. e

Elaine Harmon - eilidh_at_dc.seflin.org - eharmon_at_cs.miami.edu

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From: <gwelker_at_pop.erols.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] floating campsites
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 21:52:46 -0400 (EDT)
You may want to look at EasyRider's kayak catamaran system, which, last I
saw, had a trampoline option like you are describing, though not long enough
to sleep upon.  Also, there is a catamaran system for the Monarch covered canoe.

At 08:19 PM 10/6/99 -0400, you wrote:
>Once I sketched out an idea for two kayaks to join together in tandem with
>cross bars.  A fabric stretched across would form a platform for cooking and
>sleeping.  Then one could anchor in shallow, protected coves without having
>to go ashore on fragile islands or areas where camping is not allowed.  Of
>course, quite a bit more engineering is needed to make the rig lightweight,
>strong, and practical.
>
>I believe Herreshoff cruised in a small catamaran as a lad.  Anyone ever
>hear of such an arrangement for kayaks?
>
>Tom
>
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>
Greg Welker

"When I'm mobile....."

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From: Joe Pylka <pylka_at_castle.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] floating campsites
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 23:03:17 -0400
Didn't Verlen Kruger do something like this on his "Ultimate Challenge" down
South America with his wife?  His canoes were really heavily decked and I
think they put crossbars in and set up a campsite on  and between the boats.


>Once I sketched out an idea for two kayaks to join together in tandem with
>cross bars.  A fabric stretched across would form a platform for cooking
and
>sleeping.  Then one could anchor in shallow, protected coves without having
>to go ashore on fragile islands or areas where camping is not allowed.  Of
>course, quite a bit more engineering is needed to make the rig lightweight,
>strong, and practical.
>I believe Herreshoff cruised in a small catamaran as a lad.  Anyone ever
>hear of such an arrangement for kayaks?


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From: Arthur Hebert <seacajun_at_gs.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] floating campsites
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 22:39:49 -0500
Tom wrote;

>I believe Herreshoff cruised in a small catamaran as a lad.  Anyone ever
>hear of such an arrangement for kayaks?

Tom,
This may be of some intrest
http://www.tgseakay.dircon.co.uk/equipment.htm#kayaks
Trans Global Sea Kayak Expedition


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From: <HTERVORT_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] floating campsites
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:40:54 EDT
In a message dated 10/6/99 8:31:10 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
kwhilden_at_u.washington.edu writes:

<< Harold,
 I had of course planned to buy a day-use permit for my proposed
 circumnavigation of SCI. But I had assumed that the day use permit from
 the Nature Conservancy blanket covered the whole island that they own. Is
 this not the case?  >>

Kevin,
You should really contact the Nature Conservancy rather than letting me 
possibly set you astray.  Things have been changing, but I believe they were 
only issuing permits for landing at one or two spots.  Whether they really 
care if you land for a short breather -- I don't know, but I believe they 
have been pretty hard-nosed about it in the past.
A year or so ago, one person who does work for the Conservancy in some 
manner, told me of how he made the trip from San Miguel to Anacapa.  He 
crossed the Santa Cruz Channel in the wee hours of the AM, landing (with 
permit) on the west end of SCI to rest and sleep during the morning, then 
made the long paddle to Scorpion bay (along the north shore) without landing. 
 He was unable to get a permit to camp anywhere on TNC land and only to land 
on the west end.  That's a long paddling day, but it is a lot shorter than 
going around the south side.

<<    Also, doesn't the National Park owned section of the island
allow camping on shore?  >>

Currently, only at Scorpion Bay -- with all camping restricted to two 
campgrounds in Scorpion Canyon, the first being maybe 1/4 mile from the beach.

Harold.
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