Shit happens! If you paddle the hard edge of Sea kayaking you slip off once and a while. Dam it! Don't sit on your #_at_# and pass judgment on people operating in the real world, as you hide behind the computer screen with your paid for Certification framed on the wall from a three days paddle about. Hall of Flame! This guy should be in the great survivors wing. He will become the next Expert! A list will appear with equipment needed for buoy clinging. Gloves and shoes for climbing clammy metal will be required safety gear. How to muffle the clapper on that #_at_$_at_ bell. Don't think it can't happen to you. As I speck out from behind my computer you should be afraid, very afraid : )( :)(:)(:)(safety Tom Cromwell Edmonds, Wa. USA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Chill out, Tom! I believe, after more than a year of monitoring this list, the majority of people here don't base their paddling skills on certification that hangs from the wall. [Though I suspect many have a few hanging proudly!] And to blatantly claim that anyone who criticizes this young man is merely hiding behind their computer screen while others [like you, perhaps] are out paddling in the real world is insulting. Just maybe the criticism on this list, read by hundreds across the world, could result in someone else not spending an entire night clinging to a bell buoy, or worse, perishing at sea. Seems possible to me! How about you? Personally, I commend this guy for taking on that kind of water. I'll bet it was one hell of a great experience, at least for that first hour. Personally, I would love to paddle the same type of water conditions one day. My experience in water similar to this was on the outer edges of Hurricane Danny. One of the most exhilarating moments for me was paddling in 10- to 15-foot swell out in the Gulf of Mexico. To be able to drop down into a 15-foot trough, surrounded by a wall of water, and to surf a 15-foot swell in a following sea -- an absolutely incredible feeling!!! But I digress! The fact is, when you take on water as large and potentially dangerous as this guy did, you have to make sure you're TOTALLY prepared. And like so many other times I have heard or read about, sometimes it's the smallest of things that might have made the difference. In my humble opinion, one of the critical missing items here was a WHISTLE!!! Something I was taught from the beginning -- to ALWAYS take along a whistle -- and I do. Had this guy been paddling with a whistle -- though he may not have been able to prevent getting tossed out of and separated from his boat, and ultimately having to seek safety by swimming to and climbing up on a buoy -- he might have prevented his having to spend all night on the damned thing with the aid of a whistle. In the second story, he was quoted as saying he heard boats passing him by, but was unable to get their attention by yelling. Just maybe a whistle [or a light?] would have made the difference. The second lesson learned as a result of this situation is I entend to NEVER paddle without a light source again. Especially when I take on challenging water conditions. Quite honestly, unless I was planning on paddling or camping in nighttime conditions, I never took any kind of a light source along. Hence forth, I shall -- thanks to the lessons learned by this guy and shared on this list. I give this "kid" a lot of credit, and I truly understand his decision to kayak the rough stuff. As my brother, Bill, wrote this morning: "Sometimes it's better to have tried and failed, than to have failed to try." But we all need to make sure we don't die failing!!! Just my .03 cents! Jim Tynan PikeRoad AL >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net >[mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net]On Behalf Of >Tomckayak_at_aol.com >Sent: Saturday, November 06, 1999 9:49 AM >To: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net >Subject: [Paddlewise] experience kayaker clinging > > > Shit happens! >If you paddle the hard edge of Sea kayaking you slip off once and a while. > Dam it! >Don't sit on your #_at_# and pass judgment on people operating in the real >world, as you hide behind the computer screen with your paid for >Certification framed on the wall from a three days paddle about. > Hall of Flame! >This guy should be in the great survivors wing. > He will become the next Expert! > A list will appear with equipment needed for buoy clinging. >Gloves and shoes >for climbing clammy metal will be required safety gear. How to muffle the >clapper on that #_at_$_at_ bell. Don't think it can't happen to you. > >As I speck out from behind my computer you should be afraid, very >afraid : )( >:)(:)(:)(safety > >Tom Cromwell >Edmonds, Wa. >USA >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the >author and not >to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission >Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net >Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net >Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ >*************************************************************************** > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
And I forgot to mention -- I always carry a cellular phone buckled behind my seat in a dry bag! I've used it successfully a number of occasions -- one time from Horn Island, at least 8 miles out in the Gulf due south of Pascagoula MS. [Though not for a rescue, thank God! Just sharing a moment of awesome beauty with a friend!] Jim Tynan Pike Road AL >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net >[mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net]On Behalf Of Jim Tynan >Sent: Saturday, November 06, 1999 11:16 AM >To: Tomckayak_at_aol.com; paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net >Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] experience kayaker clinging > > >Chill out, Tom! I believe, after more than a year of monitoring this list, >the majority of people here don't base their paddling skills on >certification that hangs from the wall. [Though I suspect many have a few >hanging proudly!] And to blatantly claim that anyone who criticizes this >young man is merely hiding behind their computer screen while others [like >you, perhaps] are out paddling in the real world is insulting. Just maybe >the criticism on this list, read by hundreds across the world, could result >in someone else not spending an entire night clinging to a bell buoy, or >worse, perishing at sea. Seems possible to me! How about you? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Tomckayak_at_aol.com wrote: > > Shit happens! > If you paddle the hard edge of Sea kayaking you slip off once and a while. > Dam it! > Don't sit on your #_at_# and pass judgment on people operating in the real > world, as you hide behind the computer screen with your paid for > Certification framed on the wall from a three days paddle about. > Hall of Flame! > This guy should be in the great survivors wing. > He will become the next Expert! > A list will appear with equipment needed for buoy clinging. Gloves and shoes > for climbing clammy metal will be required safety gear. How to muffle the > clapper on that #_at_$_at_ bell. Don't think it can't happen to you. > > As I speck out from behind my computer you should be afraid, very afraid : )( > :)(:)(:)(safety > > Tom Cromwell > Edmonds, Wa. > USA > It should be pointed out that it is illegal to tie up to, climb up onto, etc. a buoy. This is considered as affecting the operation of an aid to navigation. I wonder if the Coast Guard issued him a ticket. :-) ralph diaz -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 11/06/1999 12:15:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, kayakbound_at_worldnet.att.net writes: << Chill out, Tom! I believe, after more than a year of monitoring this list, the majority of people here don't base their paddling skills on certification that hangs from the wall. [Though I suspect many have a few hanging proudly!] And to blatantly claim that anyone who criticizes this young man is merely hiding behind their computer screen while others [like you, perhaps] are out paddling in the real world is insulting. Just maybe the criticism on this list, read by hundreds across the world, could result in someone else not spending an entire night clinging to a bell buoy, or worse, perishing at sea. Seems possible to me! How about you? >> Glad to see that I wasn't the only one who thought that Tom was being a wee bit on the nasty side. I agree that there is so much to learn on this list, and it is a blessing that the more experienced paddlers are willing to share so much information with the rest of us. This is made especially awkward because newcomers to the list may not realized something has been hashed out ad nauseum (feathered/unfeathered - rudderless etc..). Thank you to all. Sandy Kramer who has to rush out and buy a Fox 40 Whistle, two small lights, and take the little flat whistle off the zipper of her PFD! *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Tom, I had the same exact thoughts as you. Thank you for writing them so well. Duane Strosaker Southern California *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Tomckayak_at_aol.com wrote: > > If you paddle the hard edge of Sea kayaking you slip off once and a while. Tom has seized on a piece of the dance we should all remember: nothing is certain. Now and then Mother Nature will bit us in the tail, despite our best efforts. I believe Tom has been bitten once, at LaPush. For that, he has earned the right to chide the rest of us, who have yet to get bit. Here's a toast to staying "a safe distance" <ironic grin> ahead of Mother Nature's chompers, while living life to its fullest. Last one in is last to get wet! -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR (skated once on Class III/IV WW -- and glad to be here to tell of it) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com> > I believe Tom has been bitten once, at LaPush. For that, he has earned the > right to chide the rest of us, who have yet to get bit. Chide this group for what? Aw c'mon. Sheeeesh.... like this list isn't made up of plenty of us that haven't learned the hard way. I'm not sure how that gives anyone the right to chide the group for what is one of the primary purposes of PaddleWise... post-mortem evaluation. The goal in that is to prevent more of the same. I wish I'd had access to a list like this when I began sea kayaking as I wouldn't have had my near-encounter with the grim reaper. I'm flat lucky I'm alive, plain and simple. I don't think it entitles me to sit in judgement of this group for its efforts in looking for answers and solutions to prevent serious accidents, even if they collectively expressed that what I did was really ignorant. And they'd be right. Safe paddling to all. Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Jackie Fenton wrote: > Aw c'mon. Sheeeesh.... like this list isn't made up of plenty of us that > haven't learned the hard way. I'm not sure how that gives anyone the right > to chide the group for what is one of the primary purposes of PaddleWise... > post-mortem evaluation. The goal in that is to prevent more of the same. > I wish I'd had access to a list like this when I began sea kayaking as I > wouldn't have had my near-encounter with the grim reaper. I'm flat lucky I'm > alive, plain and simple. I don't think it entitles me to sit in judgement of > this group for its efforts in looking for answers and solutions to prevent > serious accidents, even if they collectively expressed that what I did was > really ignorant. And they'd be right. > > Safe paddling to all. > > Jackie Amen, Jackie. I'm here to learn from others mistakes. I'm a beginner and I really think kayaking is deceptive. It looks safe, but the power of the ocean or the Great Lakes is not something to be taken lightly. I like the cautions, suggestions, admonitions that might keep me and others from injury or death. Tom, Chicago *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not > to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Jackie Fenton wrote: > > From: Dave Kruger: > > > I believe Tom has been bitten once, at LaPush. For that, he has earned the > > right to chide the rest of us, who have yet to get bit. > > Chide this group for what? [snipped Jackie's response -- which said, in paraphrase: 1. it is good we have a crowd of people who are willing (and talented at) post-mortem analysis of "incidents" like the cling-on-the-buoy guy's experience, and, 2. information she (we) glean from the list is valuable in preventing dances with the grim reaper. Note: I agree with you, Jackie, on both of those points.] Yeah, I get a lot of good insight from the analyses others volunteer here. Yet, I understand the point tomckayak makes: "stuff" happens, and we need to accept that if we enter an unpredictable environment, "stuff" will probably happen to each of us at some point. Tom has walked that talk. He gets to "chide" us a little, if you will. In addition, Tom pokes fun at folks who certificate their walls but do not regularly "test the envelope" of their skills and preparation on the water. He makes a valid point, though perhaps in an unnecessarily insulting manner. When I was a climber, I used to see climber wannabees who stuffed their rucksacks with gear, took all the "right" classes and trainings, but did not have the chutzpah to thrash their way up a difficult pitch: they enjoyed the flash and dash of looking and talking like climbers, but they never tackled the gristle and meat of engaging the mountains on their own terms. Not saying anybody should "just do it" either in the mountains or on the water, throwing all caution to the winds. Not pointing a finger at anybody in particular (cause I truly do not know any paddlers analogous to the climber wannabees described above -- I'm in the sticks, man!). **Am** saying we learn in proportion to the extent we regularly test our skills. And, if we are truly *testing* our skills, we are sometime, somewhere, gonna have an "incident." The guy who hugged the buoy could have been one of us. I think it is good to parse out what happened, and what mistakes he might have made, *if we do it with a grain of humility.* The tut-tut crowd should cut the buoy guy some slack, is what tomckayak is saying, I believe. I think it is a matter of finding out, regularly, where the edge of our abilities lies. If we do not explore that, under reasonably controlled conditions, then when Ma Nature puts us in a little trap, we won't really know what is "safe" and what is not. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 03:13 AM 11/7/99 -0800, Dave Kruger wrote: >in proportion to the extent we regularly test our skills. And, if we are >truly *testing* our skills, we are sometime, somewhere, gonna have an >"incident." The guy who hugged the buoy could have been one of us. I think >it is good to parse out what happened, and what mistakes he might have made, >*if we do it with a grain of humility.* The tut-tut crowd should cut the buoy >guy some slack, is what tomckayak is saying, I believe. I think of all the rationalizing or the "I wouldn't have done thats" you hear on rec.boat.paddle at a death or a near miss. Sort of sounds like whistling past the graveyard to me. I think we're above that here. -- Wes *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
....you go girl! At last some sanity to this thread. This kind of stuff will continue until we have the technology to bounce a thread 'ere it's ever posted on the basis of the poster being full of self. (I've certainly been there) I have some Rube Goldberg contraption in mind with perhaps a cast off breathalyzer thing poking in your face by the monitor. Maybe a mandated 3 day cooling off period before posting. Or maybe they are just plain *entertaining* to the rest of us. (snork, snork.) .....what kind of individual would include the word 'kayak' in his online name anyway..... Hey! wait a minute! *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Jackie Fenton wrote: > Aw c'mon. Sheeeesh.... like this list isn't made up of plenty of us that > haven't learned the hard way. I'm not sure how that gives anyone the right > to chide the group for what is one of the primary purposes of PaddleWise... > post-mortem evaluation. The goal in that is to prevent more of the same. > I wish I'd had access to a list like this when I began sea kayaking as I > wouldn't have had my near-encounter with the grim reaper. I'm flat lucky I'm > alive, plain and simple. I don't think it entitles me to sit in judgement of > this group for its efforts in looking for answers and solutions to prevent > serious accidents, even if they collectively expressed that what I did was > really ignorant. And they'd be right. > > Safe paddling to all. > > Jackie Amen, Jackie. I'm here to learn from others mistakes. I'm a beginner and I really think kayaking is deceptive. It looks safe, but the power of the ocean or the Great Lakes is not something to be taken lightly. I like the cautions, suggestions, admonitions that might keep me and others from injury or death. Tom, Chicago *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not > to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Dave Kruger wrote: > >LARGE SNIP< > I think it is a matter of finding out, regularly, where the edge of our > abilities lies. If we do not explore that, under reasonably controlled > conditions, then when Ma Nature puts us in a little trap, we won't really know > what is "safe" and what is not. While I agree with you as such, I'm not sure I do completely.(early here) While testing the edge is where we do learn to go forward, or else we would grow stagnant(but not always bad if we are happy there). Where I "think" I differ with what you say is that I seem to add to my edge, if you will, by not trying to push my envelope, but it just happening. Like the weather taking a dive, etc. In other words, I know what the safe conditions is that I can make a certain cross'n of a certain lake. I also know that I have made it in quite a bit rougher conditions, however I don't always up the anti each time, just because I know I "made it" last time. I guess I just like that LARGE margin, especially in the winter. Maybe I'm differant? I too used to climb at any chance in AK. Most rock, some snow/ice. I don't recall ever pushing the edge to see what I could get away with before I fell. I heard some say you don't know what the edge is until you fell. I never believed that! I got better and never had a bad fall. Slips yes, but pushing on behond your limits to total failure of your body and scenses is a waste, I believe on training yourself. With all this said, I guess each new thing that we try or that comes our way is a chance we will fail or get better/stronger. One thing is sure, we will learn. :-) I also think we can learn by beating around someone else's bad moments. Some things have to be exsperanced to learn, some thankfully don't. :-) Andy Preston, who designed the Stranger(a kite I fly), said something to the tune of, go out each day with the thought you are going to learn something new. It's only a kite and if you crash it and break it, it's not a terminal thing. Works for me in kite flying, but not in kayaking. James *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
James Lofton wrote: > > Dave Kruger wrote: > > > >LARGE SNIP< > > I think it is a matter of finding out, regularly, where the edge of our > > abilities lies. If we do not explore that, under reasonably controlled > > conditions, then when Ma Nature puts us in a little trap, we won't really know > > what is "safe" and what is not. > > While I agree with you as such, I'm not sure I do completely.(early here) > While testing the edge is where we do learn to go forward, or else we > would grow stagnant(but not always bad if we are happy there). Where I > "think" I differ with what you say is that I seem to add to my edge, if > you will, by not trying to push my envelope, but it just happening. Like > the weather taking a dive, etc. In other words, I know what the safe > conditions is that I can make a certain cross'n of a certain lake. I also > know that I have made it in quite a bit rougher conditions, however I > don't always up the anti each time, just because I know I "made it" last > time. I guess I just like that LARGE margin, especially in the winter. > Maybe I'm differant? I do not think you and I differ much. I did not say test the envelope every time, just regularly -- kind of like the philosophy of practicing *regularly* your bracing skills and wet exit/self rescue, to make sure you can still do them. It's sort of like the difference between "knowing" you can dunk the basketball (and thinking you can do it any time you want to) ...versus... practicing dunking the basketball regularly, so when the time comes, it is automatic. That's what I mean. Not suggesting anybody push their skills to the edge constantly, although there are some who do (and that's their thing, not something I would endorse). > I also think we can learn by beating around someone else's bad moments. > Some things have to be exsperanced to learn, some thankfully don't. :-) Good point -- agree wholeheartedly, especially if we do it in constructive vein, all the while remembering the person who screwed up could have been us (me)! Thanks for the contribution, James -- ever thoughtful. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 11/7/99 7:39:42 AM Pacific Standard Time, n5yyx_at_etsc.net writes: << I don't recall ever pushing the edge to see what I could get away with before I fell. >> I agree its easier to survive a fall off the face of a wave then the edge of a cliff. I don't clam any special qualifications to chide others. I have E-mail so its easy to do. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Tomckayak_at_aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 11/7/99 7:39:42 AM Pacific Standard Time, n5yyx_at_etsc.net > writes: > > << I don't recall ever pushing the edge to see what I could > get away with before I fell. >> > > I agree its easier to survive a fall off the face of a wave then the edge of > a cliff. > Well, you know what they say about a that.. It's not the fall that kills, it's that sudden stop. At least a cliff fall doesn't try to keep pounding you. :-) > I don't clam any special qualifications to chide others. I have E-mail so its > easy to do. > You must have mixed me up with some one else. I have never used the word(childe), likely don't pronounce it correctly and sure wouldn't have spelled it right. In fact I can only guess at what it means, as I've never watched her cooking show. O, never mind. James *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 11/6/99 11:08:58 AM Pacific Standard Time, rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com writes: << t should be pointed out that it is illegal to tie up to, climb up onto, etc. a buoy. This is considered as affecting the operation of an aid to navigation. I wonder if the Coast Guard issued him a ticket. :-) >> What is needed are handholds around the base of the buoy:) I don't think my heavy handed humor works will on the Plist! *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Tomckayak_at_aol.com wrote: > > Shit happens! > If you paddle the hard edge of Sea kayaking you slip off once and a while. > Dam it! > Don't sit on your #_at_# and pass judgment on people operating in the real > world, as you hide behind the computer screen with your paid for > Certification framed on the wall from a three days paddle about. > Hall of Flame! > This guy should be in the great survivors wing. > He will become the next Expert! > A list will appear with equipment needed for buoy clinging. Gloves and shoes > for climbing clammy metal will be required safety gear. How to muffle the > clapper on that #_at_$_at_ bell. Don't think it can't happen to you. > > As I speck out from behind my computer you should be afraid, very afraid : )( > :)(:)(:)(safety > > Tom Cromwell > Edmonds, Wa. > USA > It should be pointed out that it is illegal to tie up to, climb up onto, etc. a buoy. This is considered as affecting the operation of an aid to navigation. I wonder if the Coast Guard issued him a ticket. :-) ralph diaz -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 11/6/99 11:08:58 AM Pacific Standard Time, rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com writes: << t should be pointed out that it is illegal to tie up to, climb up onto, etc. a buoy. This is considered as affecting the operation of an aid to navigation. I wonder if the Coast Guard issued him a ticket. :-) >> What is needed are handholds around the base of the buoy:) I don't think my heavy handed humor works will on the Plist! *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
|What is needed are handholds around the base of the buoy:) | I don't think my heavy handed humor works will on the Plist! Actually, I got the humour in your "original" note but I did have to read it twice to make sure. Later... Dan McCarty *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At the risk of beating a dead horse, here are a few thoughts and facts: The newspaper article in case anybody missed it: http://www.portland.com/frnews/kayak1105.shtml The article said 51* water temps; 58 knot winds were supposedly forecasted--sure doesn't sound unreasonable for 6-8' seas. For a very experienced, prepared kayaker, this isn't totally unreasonable. Unreasonable for me, but not for some. According to the nearest NOAA data bouy: ftp://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/data/realtime/44007.txt At 1:00pm on 11/5/99 Air temp: 43.8*F (6.6*C) Water temp: 48.9 *F (9.4*F) Wind speed: 9 knots (could have gusted higher--9 kt is avg. speed for the hour) At rescue time: Air temp: 51.8*F (11.0*C) Water temp: 48.9 *F (9.4*F) Wind speed: 9 kt It sounded to me like he had a farmer john, and a paddling jacket or windbreaker, booties, and pfd. While he was underdressed, he did have on his PFD. He could have had a fatal swim for the bouy, maybe having the PFD while swimming in such cold water saved his life too. It said it took him 20 minutes to climb up on the bouy, so we know his dexterity was probably shot when he reached it. I'd venture to say he wouldn't have survived immersion that long dressed like that. He made a very smart choice in swimming to the bouy, illegal or not. I'd rather pay a fine for boarding a bouy, than die for not having done so. Remember to dress for the water, not for the air. He was also smart to tell his girlfriend where he would be paddling, and when he was to be expected back. She then knew that when he wasn't back by the agreed- upon time, to call the rescue authorities. They then had a more specific area to search, rather than just knowing he was within a 20-mile radius of their town. We can all remember to file a good float plan. (I'm guilty of not always doing so, but I will start now!) It just slays me that people go out in conditions like these without a roll. The article didn't say specifically that he couldn't roll, but said in effect that he normally swings himself back into the kayak--doesn't sound like a roll to me. I've never been in waves that big, and I certainly wouldn't if I couldn't roll. If I were to go into seas like that, I'd make damn sure I had flares, maybe a smoke signal, a strobe, and a signal mirror. If he'd had a space blanket, he could have wrapped it around him while clinging to the bouy; it would have saved evaporative heat loss from wind, and helped stop radiant heat loss. The article also stated that he couldn't get back in the boat because it kept filling up with water. Sounds like more prior rescue practice could have helped a lot! For sure a bilge pump and paddlefloat would have been valuable. Remember, if you're in conditions that can capsize you, they can probably capsize you again after you re-enter the boat. Next to good judgement and knowing what conditions to avoid, seems to me a roll is the best insurance. A VHF radio would have let him contact the Coast Guard and get an almost immediate rescue. The article also said 13-foot kayak. Okay, are we talking a Perception Mirage here, or a recreational touring type kayak? I don't know of too many boat designs in the 13-foot range that people take into water like that, with the possible exception of the Mariner Coaster. Are you ready for the conditions you might encounter? Is your kayak designed for the conditions you may encounter? Some would accuse sea kayakers of being gear-heads, but having more gear could have meant coming back to the beach 1/2 hour late rather than 15 hours! I am glad he survived. I truly hope he will not only learn from his "adventure" but tell others how being even a little more prepared could have helped him. I don't ever want to have to be rescued. However, if I am in a situation requiring rescue, I want be ready to summon rescuers quickly to my location, and prepared to wait for them. Shawn -- Shawn W. Baker 0 46°53'N © 1999 ____©/______ 114°06'W ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^\ ,/ /~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ baker_at_montana.com 0 http://www.missoulaconcrete.com/shawn/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Wes Boyd wrote: >>I think of all the rationalizing or the "I wouldn't have done thats" you hear on rec.boat.paddle at a death or a near miss. Sort of sounds like whistling past the graveyard to me. I think we're above that here.<< I got really sick of all that banter after an rbp death. Until this guy. He wasn't stupid. He wore a PFD, and some cold-water gear. I could have had similar things happen to me. I hope that by at least discussing what went wrong and what went right, we can learn from his experience and avoid it ourselves. I hope we're not rationalizing, but learning. I don't think the guy had a decent roll. I wouldn't do that. But, I saw things he did right, that I usually do wrong. He filed a float plan with his girlfriend. I don't usually do that, but I learned how valuable that can be! (and I will start filing a float plan--every time!) Because I could see he made a few mistakes, I see that he is a "human" paddler just like me; if we only look at "superhuman" expert paddlers who go out in the roughest conditions, it's harder to apply what they're doing in the scary stuff to what I'm doing in calmer stuff. Thanks to him, I found a few "gaps" in my own armor. Shawn -- Shawn W. Baker 0 46°53'N © 1999 ____©/______ 114°06'W ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^\ ,/ /~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ baker_at_montana.com 0 http://www.missoulaconcrete.com/shawn/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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