I saw over at rec.boats.paddle where someone addressed the cold water dress issue in an interesting way. He said that it is like how he motorbikes, i.e. he dresses for the potential _fall_ not the _ride_. I know some on this list prefer motorcycling in sandals and shorts without helmets, etc. and that is their right. But the analogy of dressing not for the ride but for the fall, i.e. helmet, strong boots, leather garments etc. is a good one to apply to paddling, i.e. dress for the possible spill into the water not the kayaking. Use any analogy you wish, skating (helmet, wrist/elbow/knee pads), etc. ralph diaz -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com wrote: > > I saw over at rec.boats.paddle where someone addressed the cold water > dress issue in an interesting way. He said that it is like how he > motorbikes, i.e. he dresses for the potential _fall_ not the _ride_. I > know some on this list prefer motorcycling in sandals and shorts without > helmets, etc. and that is their right. Mr. Diaz, I've been reading ever piece of mail that gets sent out here for a couple or three years, and I don't ever recall reading anything from anyone that mentioned that they liked to ride a bike with shorts and sandals.., without helmets yes. If, you may have mis read one of my post on the subject, I'll gladly re send it to you. Just a subject that is close, as I've been a biker for longer than a kayker, and I don't speak from a chair, but from many miles on one. Most without a helmet, all with shoes. :-) James > But the analogy of dressing not > for the ride but for the fall, i.e. helmet, strong boots, leather > garments etc. is a good one to apply to paddling, i.e. dress for the > possible spill into the water not the kayaking. Use any analogy you > wish, skating (helmet, wrist/elbow/knee pads), etc. > > ralph diaz > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
James Lofton wrote: > > rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com wrote: > > > > I saw over at rec.boats.paddle where someone addressed the cold water > > dress issue in an interesting way. He said that it is like how he > > motorbikes, i.e. he dresses for the potential _fall_ not the _ride_. I > > know some on this list prefer motorcycling in sandals and shorts without > > helmets, etc. and that is their right. > > Mr. Diaz, I've been reading ever piece of mail that gets sent out here > for a couple or three years, and I don't ever recall reading anything > from anyone that mentioned that they liked to ride a bike with shorts and > sandals.., without helmets yes. > If, you may have mis read one of my post on the subject, I'll gladly re > send it to you. > > Just a subject that is close, as I've been a biker for longer than a > kayker, and I don't speak from a chair, but from many miles on one. Most > without a helmet, all with shoes. :-) James, I did not say that you or anyone on the PaddleWise list suggested that any of the helmetless ones among you were also in sandals and shorts. I was serving up an analogy. If you recall that analogy also took in rollerblading without helmet and knee/elbow/wrist pads when this has, to my recall, not been brought up in PaddleWise. I like how Larry Bliven put it when he threw in the snowboarding analogy and used the phrase "dress for chaos." I am certain that you have reasons, satisfactory to yourself, for not dressing for chaos when motorcycling and not donning a helmet. I know that many of those bikers who refuse to wear one do so because they object to such helmet wearing being mandatory. I can't remember which nearby state did or did not have a helmet mandatory law (Connecticut?) and not wearing one was a form of protest. There may be other reasons why bikers might choose to go helmetless. Motorcycles for some lend an aura of individualism and freedom and helmets can detract from this self-image such bikers may wish for themselves. Dressing for chaos often goes against tradition of an activity. For example you see it in canoeists who paddle flat water. At one point, PFDs were awkward awful things to wear and canoeists who are the earliest of recreational paddlers of this century (also folding kayakers) developed a culture that did not include PFDs. Also, these early paddlers did not have the benefit of neoprene and dry suits and now watersports polartec. So they used woolens and rain gear if paddling over cold water. That was as far as they would go in dressing for chaos. Certainly traditions have developed in an activity such as canoeing and an aura in others such as the individualism and freedom represented for some bikers. But tradition and aura do not make them right in ignoring the dress for chaos point. What I find interesting is how sometimes dressing for chaos takes on an aura intrical to the self-image of the sport. For example, I hardly ever see a jet-skiier not dressed in thick flashy colored neoprene. Even in the heat of summer they are generally in at least a shorty neoprene suit with short pants legs at the bottom and short sleeves. In fact it shocked me about two weeks ago to see a couple on a jet ski in just T-shirts and shorts, so accustomed have I become to it being a neoprene clad clan. That clan also is absolutely faithful to PFD wearing at all times on their machines. And if given an opportunity they wear the stuff around on land when going for a hotdog or drink. ralph -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> ---------- > From: James Lofton[SMTP:n5yyx_at_etsc.net] > > Mr. Diaz, I've been reading ever piece of mail that gets sent out here > for a couple or three years, and I don't ever recall reading anything > from anyone that mentioned that they liked to ride a bike with shorts and > sandals.., without helmets yes. > If, you may have mis read one of my post on the subject, I'll gladly re > send it to you. > Mr. Lofton; I did not see that the above referenced message was directed at you (or anyone else, specifically). Perhaps the references were even tongue-in-cheek :-O Please shake the chip of your shoulder so that your future contributions are less of a personal afront. Ms. Reeves *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Debbie, Ralph, and all the other PWizers on the list, those that did write me priviatly, and those that havn't, yet I offended. My deepest opologies for letting my personal feelings show on this list. I forget that I am at my better side when I'm not dealing with others on subjects that I hold close to me. Thanks for reminding me to go back to what I do best. Keeping my mouth shut and my eyes and ears open. BTW: it's not a chip, it's a battery. :-) James Reeves, Debbie (Debbie) wrote: > > > ---------- > > From: James Lofton[SMTP:n5yyx_at_etsc.net] > > > > Mr. Diaz, I've been reading ever piece of mail that gets sent out here > > for a couple or three years, and I don't ever recall reading anything > > from anyone that mentioned that they liked to ride a bike with shorts and > > sandals.., without helmets yes. > > If, you may have mis read one of my post on the subject, I'll gladly re > > send it to you. > > > Mr. Lofton; > > I did not see that the above referenced message was directed at you > (or anyone else, specifically). Perhaps the references were even > tongue-in-cheek :-O Please shake the chip of your shoulder so that your > future contributions are less of a personal afront. > > Ms. Reeves > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 11/11/1999 10:34:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, dreeves_at_lucent.com writes: << Mr. Lofton; I did not see that the above referenced message was directed at you (or anyone else, specifically). Perhaps the references were even tongue-in-cheek :-O Please shake the chip of your shoulder so that your future contributions are less of a personal afront. Ms. Reeves >> WAY TO GO, DEB!! I, too, thought that James had climbed on a high horse. Hopefully everybody will now kiss and make up. :) Sandy Kramer ooops .... Ms. Kramer *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
James, that was a gentlemanly apology. Sandy Kramer who also has a hard time keeping her mouth shut! In a message dated 11/11/1999 12:16:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, n5yyx_at_etsc.net writes: << Debbie, Ralph, and all the other PWizers on the list, those that did write me priviatly, and those that havn't, yet I offended. My deepest opologies for letting my personal feelings show on this list. I forget that I am at my better side when I'm not dealing with others on subjects that I hold close to me. Thanks for reminding me to go back to what I do best. Keeping my mouth shut and my eyes and ears open. BTW: it's not a chip, it's a battery. :-) James >> *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Ralph Diaz wrote: > >Certainly traditions have developed in an activity such as canoeing >and an aura in others such as the individualism and freedom represented >for some bikers. But tradition and aura do not make them right >in ignoring the dress for chaos point. > >What I find interesting is how sometimes dressing for chaos takes on >an aura intrical to the self-image of the sport. For example, I hardly >ever see a jet-skiier not dressed in thick flashy colored neoprene. >Even in the heat of summer they are generally in at least a shorty >neoprene suit with short pants legs at the bottom and short sleeves. It's just like bikers dressing for chaos (sometimes knowingly, sometimes not) by wearing heavy leather jackets and big boots. Seems ironic that some then, dislike wearing helmets. Snowmobilers seem to have the same mindset as jetskiers (due to same engines perhaps?) about dressing for chaos. I see very few who aren't wearing heavy leather or nylon jackets and full-face helmets that match their machines. I suppose it's as much fashion statement as it is preparedness, but they're awfully proud of their bright green, purple and black Ski Doo jackets, bright green and yellow Arctic Cat jackets, or hot pink Polaris jackets. Maybe we need red and black Klepper drysuits, or yellow and white Current Designs wetsuits! Of course, I think serious sea kayakers in general are less of the "I gotta make a fashion statement" mentality than others; if this is really the case then, we can share this feeling with people new or inexperienced in the sport and say,"who cares what that drysuit looks like--wearing it is just the right thing to do." > That clan also is absolutely faithful >to PFD wearing at all times on their machines. And if given an >opportunity they wear the stuff around on land when going for a >hotdog or drink. If only we could convince them that 4-stroke machines were "cool"! Shawn -- Shawn W. Baker 0 46°53'N © 1999 ____©/______ 114°06'W ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^\ ,/ /~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ baker_at_montana.com 0 http://www.missoulaconcrete.com/shawn/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Shawn W. Baker wrote: > Snowmobilers seem to have the same mindset as jetskiers (due to same > engines perhaps?) about dressing for chaos. I see very few who aren't > wearing heavy leather or nylon jackets and full-face helmets that match > their machines. I suppose it's as much fashion statement as it is > preparedness, but they're awfully proud of their bright green, purple > and black Ski Doo jackets, bright green and yellow Arctic Cat jackets, > or hot pink Polaris jackets. > > Maybe we need red and black Klepper drysuits, or yellow and white > Current Designs wetsuits! Of course, I think serious sea kayakers in > general are less of the "I gotta make a fashion statement" mentality > than others; [snip] Hee! Hee! Think I'll rush right out and get my Folbot suit: green and gray or is it yellow and black? Reminds me that in the early days of X-C skiing in the NW, almost all the participants came from a backpacking/climbing background, so we (of course) wore army surplus wool pants and, for the tonier ones, wool knickers -- a far cry from the Lycra / Spandex / fleece jumpsuits I see now. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR a not very serious sea kayaker *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:33:05 PDT