For those of you who would like to explore a little more off topic here are some sites for pedal boats. The one at REI is the Cadence (built in Redmond WA I believe) but I don't know if it has a website. I have seen them but have not pedaled one yet. They must be 28 to 30" wide and you sit very low in them so they get their stability from that. I have pedaled some wide kayak hulls rigged with a Sea Saber propulsion unit and found them nervously tippy because they didn't have that paddle to use for stability. I have owned a Sea Saber which though no longer made is the fastest displacement craft I have ever seen. It was 11" wide and 21' long with a proa type outrigger and at 50 lbs. an elegant design. I tried the Wavebike last 4th of July and it was very interesting but needed a little more engineering on the retractable outrigger (dare I say it) sponsons. Basic concept is strange but sound and it is probably the fastest presently available pedal powered displacement hull. The Decavitator is the record holder mentioned in one post with the air prop and hydrofoils. many years ago Scientific American had an article on Human powered watercraft that had several strange designs. Don't miss the Trampafoil. For those interested enjoy the links (but lets get back to paddling on paddlewise). Matt Broze http://www.marinerkayaks.com http://www.ihpva.org/ http://lancet.mit.edu/decavitator/ http://members.aol.com/jfreeent/ http://www.wavebike.com/ http://www.hobiecat.com/mirage/default.html http://www.trampofoil.se/ http://www.wisil.recumbents.com/ http://www.velosea.com/ http://www.hydrobikes.com/ http://www.tip.net.au/~mmosig/ http://www.wisil.recumbents.com/boat.htm http://www.suncatcher.com/hydroCraft.htm http://www.hydrocycles.com/ http://www.seabikes.de/ http://www.qpg.com/N/nauticraft/ http://www.ozone-watercraft.com/photo.htm http://www.llboats.com/WW.html http://www.bwmarineproducts.com/contour_pedal_boats.htm *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Matt Broze wrote: > > For those of you who would like to explore a little more off topic here are > some sites for pedal boats. snip (but lets > get back to paddling on paddlewise). > Matt Broze > http://www.marinerkayaks.com Matt, with all respect. I guess I must agree that boats that can only be peddaled (Non paddled or rowed human powered watercraft) are outside of the topics for this list but I find your posting interesting and informative, thanks. It seems that there is some practical crossover in boats that can be paddled and pedaled. Even though dedicated pedaling boats are outside of the letter of allowed topics don't they maybe fit into the spirit of things that interest paddlers. If you look at the list of paddlewise topics you see topics such as boat building and Conservation issues which seems to me to be different topics than paddling but are allowed. Surely there is room on the list for the low volume of peripheral topics that appear. As must be obvious, my primary interest is kayak sailing. Every time I have posted to this list any sailing content, my mailbox filled with notes requesting more sailing content on the list. My point is that from my experience there are those among the less openly vocal on this list that would like to see more of topics that are outside of the normal narrow discussions. It seems that occasionally the first line of the topic list could be streched a little for some interesting non-purist content. I realize that I am in a minority with this view but an sure I am not alone. I am just registering a vote for a broader interpretation of what are paddlesport related topics. A little extra knowledge never hurts. Thanks again for the HPV links. Mark > The PaddleWise paddling list covers the following topics: > > - Anything to do with paddling boats! > - Trip reports > - Paddling equipment > - Paddling clothes > - Survival gear > - Instruction > - Paddling safety and first aid > - Paddling techniques > - Seamanship and navigation > - Risk assessment and management > - Boat touring and camping > - Boat building > - Destinations > - Conservation issues > - Wildlife > - Educational events > - Paddling seminars > - Competition > - Non-commercial items for sale *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> I am just registering a vote for a broader > interpretation of what are paddlesport related topics. A little extra > knowledge never hurts. Thanks again for the HPV links. > Mark I hope that Jackie agrees with this as I find relevance with many of the 'off topic' discussions, specially dealing with other 'non motored' vehicles, from sailing to recumbent bikes. Not only does it give me information, but also other facets of interests of the other people on this list, kinda nice for someone who doesn't have a vast social network of the workplace(self employed). It would be a shame not to have reference to the vast expertise exhibited on this list due to a limited reading of 'on topic'. Either way, great list! gabriel -- : : Gabriel L Romeu : http://studiofurniture.com furniture from the workshop : http://members.xoom.com/gabrielR life as a tourist, daily journal : http://users.aol.com/romeugp paintings, photographs, etchings, objects *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
You certainly are not alone, Mark. I know that the border area of paddling interests is hard to define, but I would argue for a good measure of flexibility. What is related to paddling may be very different in my cognitive schema than in someone else's. This makes definging border areas a very imprecise business. Giving a clear indication of the topic in the subject heading allows the reader to skim over messages not of interest to him/her. So I vote for greater openness. Andy C. Anderson Johnson, Ph.D. Sidney Garfield Professor of Preventive Medicine and Director, Institute for Health Promotion and Disease Prevention Research University of Southern California 1540 Alcazar Street Los Angeles, CA 90033 email: carljohn_at_usc.edu Phone 323-442-2622 Fax 323-442-2601 IPR Web Site http//www.usc.edu/go/ipr/ -----Original Message----- From: owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net]On Behalf Of Mark Balogh Sent: Thursday, November 25, 1999 1:56 AM To: Paddlewise Subject: [Paddlewise] Subject: Non paddled or rowed human powered watercraft Matt Broze wrote: > > For those of you who would like to explore a little more off topic here are > some sites for pedal boats. snip (but lets > get back to paddling on paddlewise). > Matt Broze > http://www.marinerkayaks.com Matt, with all respect. I guess I must agree that boats that can only be peddaled (Non paddled or rowed human powered watercraft) are outside of the topics for this list but I find your posting interesting and informative, thanks. It seems that there is some practical crossover in boats that can be paddled and pedaled. Even though dedicated pedaling boats are outside of the letter of allowed topics don't they maybe fit into the spirit of things that interest paddlers. If you look at the list of paddlewise topics you see topics such as boat building and Conservation issues which seems to me to be different topics than paddling but are allowed. Surely there is room on the list for the low volume of peripheral topics that appear. As must be obvious, my primary interest is kayak sailing. Every time I have posted to this list any sailing content, my mailbox filled with notes requesting more sailing content on the list. My point is that from my experience there are those among the less openly vocal on this list that would like to see more of topics that are outside of the normal narrow discussions. It seems that occasionally the first line of the topic list could be streched a little for some interesting non-purist content. I realize that I am in a minority with this view but an sure I am not alone. I am just registering a vote for a broader interpretation of what are paddlesport related topics. A little extra knowledge never hurts. Thanks again for the HPV links. Mark > The PaddleWise paddling list covers the following topics: > > - Anything to do with paddling boats! > - Trip reports > - Paddling equipment > - Paddling clothes > - Survival gear > - Instruction > - Paddling safety and first aid > - Paddling techniques > - Seamanship and navigation > - Risk assessment and management > - Boat touring and camping > - Boat building > - Destinations > - Conservation issues > - Wildlife > - Educational events > - Paddling seminars > - Competition > - Non-commercial items for sale *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> From: Mark Balogh <batwing_at_kerrlake.com> > list but I find your posting interesting and informative, thanks. It > seems that there is some practical crossover in boats that can be > paddled and pedaled. Even though dedicated pedaling boats are outside > of the letter of allowed topics don't they maybe fit into the spirit of > things that interest paddlers. I tend to agree with this. Just one of many applications of kayaks... (surfing - which some folks do in ww and ocean without a paddle, fishing, diving platforms, sailing, etc). We've also had discussions on kayak sledding. I expect that will start taking place again real soon now :-) Cheers, Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In the midst of the long discussion on rolls we've had, there was a nice thread on the subject on rec.boats.paddle.touring. In the midst of the threat, a canoe tripper had a thought that I thought I'd throw out here for comment: "Then there's flatwater canoeing & canoe tripping. Very few if any of us can roll our canoes, yet we are in far less seaworthy craft than sea kayaks. If sea kayakers need a roll, are we canoeists totally unsafe?" -- Lloyd Bowles, "The Mad Canoeist" What does the group think? Is a roll for sea kayaking really, absolutely necessary, especially for those that don't go into conditions where they wouldn't go with an open canoe, anyway? -- Wes *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Actually, the discussion on rec.boats.paddle.touring began with someone's claim that all competent trip leaders should know how to roll. A position which I have been staunchly arguing against. It then degenerated into the proposition that all competent sea kayakers should know how to roll. Again, I don't agree. Mr. Bowles, whom I believe is a part of this list also, makes a valid point when he throws canoeing into the equation. As I pointed out on the newsgroup, there are various levels of sea kayaking, each requiring different amounts of skill and equipment. People who are content exploring calm water on the weekend certainly do not need to know how to roll. They are still, nevertheless, part of our sea kayaking community. I also do not believe that people who enjoy well run group trips need to be up on their solo rescues either. Of course, it wouldn't hurt! But it's not necessary for either the group, or the group leader to have these skills. Scott So.Cal. >>In the midst of the long discussion on rolls we've had, there was a nice thread on the subject on rec.boats.paddle.touring. In the midst of the threat, a canoe tripper had a thought that I thought I'd throw out here for comment: "Then there's flatwater canoeing & canoe tripping. Very few if any of us can roll our canoes, yet we are in far less seaworthy craft than sea kayaks. If sea kayakers need a roll, are we canoeists totally unsafe?" -- Lloyd Bowles, "The Mad Canoeist" What does the group think? Is a roll for sea kayaking really, absolutely necessary, especially for those that don't go into conditions where they wouldn't go with an open canoe, anyway?<< *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
KiAyker_at_aol.com wrote: > > Actually, the discussion on rec.boats.paddle.touring began with someone's > claim that all competent trip leaders should know how to roll. A position > which I have been staunchly arguing against. It then degenerated into the > proposition that all competent sea kayakers should know how to roll. Again, I > don't agree. Mr. Bowles, whom I believe is a part of this list also, makes a > valid point when he throws canoeing into the equation. > As I pointed out on the newsgroup, there are various levels of sea > kayaking, each requiring different amounts of skill and equipment. People who > are content exploring calm water on the weekend certainly do not need to know > how to roll. They are still, nevertheless, part of our sea kayaking > community. I also do not believe that people who enjoy well run group trips > need to be up on their solo rescues either. Of course, it wouldn't hurt! But > it's not necessary for either the group, or the group leader to have these > skills. > > Scott I saw Scott's posting to that newsgroup and thought it was quite well-stated. Another thing that Scott elaborated on, but which he doesn't mention here, is an excellent point about leaders. He stressed that the skills that should be looked on for them is not whether they can roll or not but rather that they possess judgment and knowledge to see a group reasonably safely through the waters they are paddling. Whether that individual has two dozen rolling techniques or not makes little difference for the group. He or she certainly should also have a no-nonsense assisted rescue technique which he or she can put into action without hesitation or pondering. The reason I added that last point is that I know of one case years ago here in the harbor on a busy weekend when a double kayak went over. Pleasure crafts were whizzing around and they were in the path of several ferries. The leader came over and started debating with himself and others whether to use X method or Y method and who exactly should do it and from what angle, etc. A silly waste of time was being wasted in figuring out the optimum approach when what should hold, borrowing from Nike ads, "Just Do It!" While he was holding court, a very skilled old-timer solo canoeist just paddled up and did the rescue, no bull shit. best, ralph -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>"Then there's flatwater canoeing & canoe tripping. Very few if any of us >can roll our canoes, yet we are in far less seaworthy craft than sea >kayaks. If sea kayakers need a roll, are we canoeists totally unsafe?" > -- Lloyd Bowles, "The Mad Canoeist" > No. In a kayak you are in a decked boat which is difficult to get out of compared to a canoe. You are also in a boat that you "wear" and your feet, knees, thighs, etc. are in contact. Thus a kayaker can exert force against the boat to make it roll. A whitewater open canoeist often has thigh straps and foot braces which first of all keep him in the boat when it's upside down, and allow the paddler to exert force against the canoe. ACA and ARC training for non-whitewater paddling emphasize techniques for getting back into your canoe rather than rolling it... The usual canoe for these purposes does not have footbraces or thighstraps so rolling's not a practical thing to learn. There's one person I know who can roll a canoe without those things, but he's exceptional in other ways too. JP *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 23:16:44 -0800 >To: Wes Boyd <boydwe_at_dmci.net> >From: Doug Lloyd <dlloyd_at_bc.sympatico.ca> >Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Rolling, rolling, keep them kayaks . . . > >At 07:15 PM 11/28/99, Wes wrote provocatively: >>In the midst of the long discussion on rolls we've had, there was a nice >>thread on the subject on rec.boats.paddle.touring. In the midst of the >>threat, a canoe tripper had a thought that I thought I'd throw out here for >>comment: >> >>"Then there's flatwater canoeing & canoe tripping. Very few if any of us >>can roll our canoes, yet we are in far less seaworthy craft than sea >>kayaks. If sea kayakers need a roll, are we canoeists totally unsafe?" >> -- Lloyd Bowles, "The Mad Canoeist" >> > >At our local club pool sessions, a number of canoeist usually show up to practice rolling. It really is amazing to watch these guys. I canoe too, and enjoy paddling an open Canadian on the sea. It requires extreme caution, both from the perspective of wind avoidance and taking on waves from strategic angles. I use a canoe with three deep keelson strips, it is very wide, and has a high bow to ride up over waves of various heights and stages of breaking. It is always a very calculated risk, especially when we are out as a family. Countless families have died over the millenia around the tide influenced shores of Southern Vancouver Island. Surf requires specialist knowledge. Few can roll their canoes, and certainly most of us would not go out in the kind of conditions we would frequent in a sea kayak where a roll was available. > >My private boy's school teacher from 30 years ago was in the front of the paper a few years ago. He decided to circumnavigate Vancouver Island, solo, in his open Canadian. He told a number of us that it would be relatively easy given his skills and proclivity toward carefully selecting healthy windows of weather opportunity. Some of us had our doubts. He could not roll, though he could paddle at an easy 3 knots all day long. He had a lovely "J" stroke. Anyway, it was not surprising to see him in the front of the paper. He had been rounding Brooks Peninsula on the Island's west coast. It is an area that can challenge advanced sea kayakers. He got taken-out by a boomer that broke near some offshore reefs. He made it to shore with only a bit of rudimentary gear, after stripping down to fight his way ashore. It was a cold night on the "surface of the moon" like shoreline. Fortunately, the Coast Guard had made an exception in his case, because he was raising money for Cystic Fibrosis. When he failed to make radio contact the next day, a helicopter was sent out. The Sar-Tech who rescued him is a neighbor of one of my paddling partners. My friend said the rescue guy's comment was, "In all my years of coastal rescues, I've never seen a human being run so fast in bare feet over barnacle covered reefs, jumping up and down and waving their hands". > >I thought you might like this example. My ex teacher always did make me roll with laughter. > >>What does the group think? Is a roll for sea kayaking really, absolutely >>necessary, especially for those that don't go into conditions where they >>wouldn't go with an open canoe, anyway? > >Don't forget guys like John Dowd. "Dowdsy" has paddled his Klepper in open water conditions that most single, hard-shell kayakers would have expired in rather quickly. I'm not dealing with your specific question, Wes, but wanted to make the point that people without a roll do some amazing things with their sea kayaks. And, looks like I beat Ralph to the mark on this last point! > >BC'in Ya >Doug Lloyd > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
ralph diaz wrote: --snip-- > The reason I added that last point is that I know of one case years ago > here in the harbor on a busy weekend when a double kayak went over. > Pleasure crafts were whizzing around and they were in the path of > several ferries. The leader came over and started debating with himself > and others whether to use X method or Y method and who exactly should do > it and from what angle, etc. A silly waste of time was being wasted in > figuring out the optimum approach when what should hold, borrowing from > Nike ads, "Just Do It!" While he was holding court, a very skilled > old-timer solo canoeist just paddled up and did the rescue, no bull > shit. While obviously a no-nonsense approach is required, I suggest that the rescue coordinator should whenever reasonably possible be someone other than the person performing the assisted rescue. The reason I propose this is that there are a great many variables which can affect both a successful rescue and the safety of the group. Someone needs to keep an eye on these things -- watch out for potential problems, use resources wisely. If a person is focused on physically performing a rescue, then he or she might lose sight of these other variables. It is not any single event, such as a dunking, that I am worried about -- it is more the cumulation of a series of small mishaps that I worry about. Thus, for example, a rescue coordinator should assign someone capable of performing an assisted rescue to do the actual rescue, and assign a more experienced paddler to round up the group and assist other paddlers in avoiding broaches and further dumps, rather than send in the most experienced paddler to perform the rescue and risk other members running into trouble. At first this approach seems counter intuitive, for under this system the most experienced paddlers are usually not the ones actually performing the rescue.. If, however, you break everyone's skills down into categories such as situational awareness, technique, and leadership, and then try to find the best balance overall, you start noticing that situational awareness and leadership skills are usually more scarce than technical skills, so if a rescue must include all three aspects, then you had better not sacrifice one entirely (e.g. situational awareness) simply because that person also has the best technical skills of several people who have requisite technical skills. The error made by the trip leader as presented in Ralph's fact scenario is not that he failed to immediately perform a simple assisted rescue, but that he took on the role of rescue coordinator and was entirely unable to perform in this capacity. He was unable to correctly make an instant decision as to resource allocation, and he lost situational awareness. Perhaps the best decision would have been to have other members of the group perform the rescue, or to call over the old-timer to perform the rescue, or to quickly perform the rescue himself -- I do not know the answer to this because we do not have full facts, but one thing is glaringly obvious: the decision as to how to act was not clearly and quickly made by the trip leader in his role as rescue coordinator. Note that I do not suggest that the best approach would be for the trip leader to immediately perform the rescue. This is simply one option that the trip leader in his role of rescue coordinator should have considered. When it comes to rescue, too many cooks can spoil the broth. If several would-be rescuers have different plans which while perfectly sound still conflict with each other, or if a common plan requires resource allocation, or if there is a significant deus ex marina factor which might impact on the entire group, then people immediately doing what each individually thinks best may lead to disaster. Since time is often (but not always) paramount in a rescue, a rescue coordinator must not "hold court" as Ralph puts it. He or she must be aware of the strengths and weaknesses of each member of the group, and assign tasks accordingly without any delay. The best way to do this is to paddle with the same people regularly, and to practice various rescues with them regularly. Before every trip discuss the rescue procedure so that everyone will know what to expect in terms of not only possible or likely incidents, but also overall procedures which will be applied in any rescue. Paddlers (particularly wild water paddlers who often face complex rescue scenarios) interested in this sort of thing would do well to take rescue courses, for not only will they learn about how to perform specific rescues, but they will also learn about command and control in rescue scenarios. Cheers, Richard Culpeper *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Richard Culpeper wrote: [megasnip of an excellent analysis] > Thus, for example, a rescue coordinator should assign someone capable of > performing an assisted rescue to do the actual rescue, and assign a more > experienced paddler to round up the group and assist other paddlers in > avoiding broaches and further dumps, [snip] If, however, you break everyone's > skills down into categories such as situational awareness, technique, and > leadership, and then try to find the best balance overall, you start noticing > that **situational awareness and leadership skills are usually more scarce > than technical skills,** [emphasis added] so if a rescue must include all > three aspects, then you had better not sacrifice one entirely (e.g. > situational awareness) simply because that person also has the best technical > skills of several people who have requisite technical skills. Wanted to isolate Richard's "situational awareness" point for emphasis. I've seen this problem several times when something nasty went down in a lab (I'm a synthetic chemist): after an accident, someone will immediately jump in and start "doing" something, often out of sheer adrenaline, while the cooler heads take a 5-second pause to size up the scene and **then** select an ordered sequence to solve the problem. Situational awareness is almost completely unteachable, I think, though one can raise the awareness in others who naturally are bent that way. YMMV -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Dave Kruger wrote: > > Richard Culpeper wrote: > > [megasnip of an excellent analysis] > > > Thus, for example, a rescue coordinator should assign someone capable of > > performing an assisted rescue to do the actual rescue, and assign a more > > experienced paddler to round up the group and assist other paddlers in > > avoiding broaches and further dumps, [snip] If, however, you break everyone's > > skills down into categories such as situational awareness, technique, and > > leadership, and then try to find the best balance overall, you start noticing > > that **situational awareness and leadership skills are usually more scarce > > than technical skills,** [emphasis added] so if a rescue must include all > > three aspects, then you had better not sacrifice one entirely (e.g. > > situational awareness) simply because that person also has the best technical > > skills of several people who have requisite technical skills. This is pretty much standard operational procedure for a good tour service. Our best local one does just that. If some one goes over, just one or two of the guides go in to make the rescue while the other guides move the rest of the group on or keeps them out of the way. A lot of milling around doesn't help an rescue much. BUT that is a professional/commercial outfit. Club trips are a game of pickup basketball with relative skills not fully known. You generally don't have the luxury in some/many clubs to have a cadre of experienced paddlers to assign various responsibilities. I suppose there are some clubs that do but I haven't seen that beyond saying someone is the sweep and someone should paddle next to a paddler that may not be as skilled as the rest of the group. > > Wanted to isolate Richard's "situational awareness" point for emphasis. I've > seen this problem several times when something nasty went down in a lab (I'm a > synthetic chemist): after an accident, someone will immediately jump in and > start "doing" something, often out of sheer adrenaline, while the cooler heads > take a 5-second pause to size up the scene and **then** select an ordered > sequence to solve the problem. > > Situational awareness is almost completely unteachable, I think, though one can > raise the awareness in others who naturally are bent that way. I don't know the term "situational awareness" but it sounds something like common sense and sizing up what counts and what doesn't count. If that is what is meant then I have been lucky to have seen such display of "situational awareness" early in my paddling days and this opened my own eyes to how to decipher a situation. I had been paddling for only a handful or so of months when my wife and I decided to tackle the Manhattan Circumnavigation (about 32 miles). During the trip, a canoe flipped while on the East River. It was a big crowd of paddlers (perhaps 25 or so) and people started chasing down loose gear etc. But one astute paddler immediately sized up the most critical aspect of the situation. The canoeists, because it was a hot day, had their PFD zippers completely undone; given the speeds of the current (about 4 to 5 knots at that spot) and other water dynamics, they could have easily slipped out of their PFDs and gone under (it has been known to happen in these waters). He immediately called for them to zip up before even thinking of anything else. Then he "ordered" two people to go in for the rescue and empty of the canoe. The rest of us kept as back as we could. I came away from this episode realizing the importance of securing the victim's personal safety situation quickly before anything else. If someone is trying to develop situational awareness, that is a good first point to consider. Another, and this may be a semantical or nuance difference from Dave's point, I think that it is important to do something quickly and not to do too much pondering. Don't forget what I said yesterday or so about that other trip in which a leader decided to debate with himself and others the optimum way to do a needed rescue rather than just do the first one that presented itself given the relative positions of the boats around. I have had to do so few real rescues in the hundreds of group trips I have lead or been on that maybe I am not qualified to speak. But the few times I have, I took advantage of the cards presented to me. In one trip, which I was not leading (the "leader" was actually a half mile ahead of us churning away with hardly a look back), a kayak went over. I whipped around to get into position to do the rescue when serendipitously a double kayak paddled by beginners came alongside into perfect position. Rather than have them move out of the way for me to get into position, I just directed them to do the rescue in the simplest terms saving the fancy language and rescue lecture for lunch later. I was in a hurry because the water was cold and no one except me and my wife in our double had cold water gear on despite the high 70s degree air temperature. Lest I sound like a know-it-all, I actually had failed to notice something that did slow down the rescue a bit and required some extra effort...the person getting back into the boat was wearing paddling pants with neoprene ankle cuffs. His pants were full of water making it somewhat difficult for him to rise out into his boat. I had the rescuers tuck on the back of his pants waist to get him back in. But I should have noticed the cause when his first effort failed and asked him to release the velcro on the neoprene ankle cuffs. So one is always learning something. ralph diaz -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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