In my search for a PFD with enough pockets to carry the stuff I want on my body if I get separated from my Kayak I found the following site. It has a PFD that is used by Border Patrol Riverboat Unit, Seals, Cops, etc. It's a little expensive at $250 but it will carry everything but the kitchen sink and is really made well. It's called the BlackHawk Tactical Float Vest. See: http://www.blackhawk.com/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Flory, San Jose, CA. daflory_at_pacbell.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Speak softly and study Aikido, then you won't need a big stick. ©1999 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hi Dave How is this vest for paddling? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> > Your URL points to a -future- computer software site. No PFD's that I can > > see. > > Sorry about that, they didn't warn me they were taking it down for a redo. :-) > OOPS, I'm really sorry about that, I found the site a couple of weeks ago and lost the URL. I then did a search for BlackHawk, yesterday, and messed up. The site of BlackHawk Industries is: http://blackhawkindustries.com/ And the "tactical float vest" is at the top of: http://blackhawkindustries.com/cgi-bin/getdbentry.pl?page=bhwelcome.html in their online catalog. I'm really sorry if sent many people on a wild goose chase. Fair paddle weather and happy bytes, ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Flory, San Jose, CA. daflory_at_pacbell.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Speak softly and study Aikido, then you won't need a big stick. ©1999 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Well if you're looking for a vest that will accommodate "three M-16 magazines" this is for you. My question is what else is Dave buying from this website? -----Original Message----- From: Tomckayak_at_aol.com [mailto:Tomckayak_at_aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 1999 9:25 AM To: daflory_at_pacbell.net; paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Flotation vest with (many) pockets Hi Dave How is this vest for paddling? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Joe Brzoza wrote: > > Well if you're looking for a vest that will accommodate "three M-16 > magazines" this is for you. > > My question is what else is Dave buying from this website? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tomckayak_at_aol.com [mailto:Tomckayak_at_aol.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 1999 9:25 AM > To: daflory_at_pacbell.net; paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Flotation vest with (many) pockets > > Hi Dave > > How is this vest for paddling? Finally got on the site and can see it's appeal for all the pockets. Speaking from being all legs and what is left is torso, I think the vest is a bit too long for the spray skirt- end up with a pool of water around you if the vest comes lower than the cockpit rim . Might be a good idea to check the return policy before the investment. -- : : Gabriel L Romeu : http://studiofurniture.com furniture from the workshop : http://members.xoom.com/gabrielR life as a tourist, daily journal : http://users.aol.com/romeugp paintings, photographs, etchings, objects *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Finally got on the site and can see it's appeal for all the pockets. > Speaking from being all legs and what is left is torso, I think the vest > is a bit too long for the spray skirt- end up with a pool of water > around you if the vest comes lower than the cockpit rim I paddle a SOT so that's not a problem for me. It ends above the waistline as it has belt loops sewed on the bottom so it can be fastened to a belt or one of those military web belts. > .. Might be a good idea to check the return policy before the > investment. This is always a good idea, I always read/check the warranty and return police before I buy anything. **************************************** I had an experience today at Monterey that drove home to me, very solidly, the philosophy of backup the backup plan that Matt and Doug seem to propound often. If I hadn't been exposed to that I might not be here. I went out from MBK's beach at the same time that a guy with even less experience than I have was going out. He said he'd been in a kayak a couple of times. The waves were a little confused but not big and the swells were 4-5 feet with a really long period, like I could turn around 360 deg. between them no problem. I even sat abeam watching things for quite a while no problem. I went out to the Aquarium area and stayed pretty well off shore because there were some pretty good breakers going in there with surfer's playing. All was pretty copacetic until I had passed the breakwater on my return and was maybe 600-800 yards off the MBK beach when suddenly I capsized. I was caught completely by surprise. My Cobra Explorer is pretty wide and pretty stable, I thought. I suddenly found myself at about 30 deg. and there was nothing I could do to keep from going over. Here's what I think Matt mentioned somewhere about initially stable boat not having much secondary stability, and vicey versey. "Oh well, I thought. No big problem, I've gotten back into a SOT (my old royks) a thousand times when I was diving." This was the first time I tried it in this boat. (MISTAKE, I should have experimented close to the beach.) I tried pushing myself down and then kicking hard to drive me up and pulling the boat in under me at the same time, the way I did with the Royaks. It didn't work. When diving I would sometimes almost overshoot the boat. I had more boyancy, lower on my body with a full farmer john 1/4 inch wetsuit with short leg 1/4 jacket, and an inflated BC over that. Plus I had fins on. I'm going to buy some fins to keep in the boat too, even when I don't plan on diving. I know I can put them on in the water, I've done it a lot. ("Where did I hear that thinking before?" Perhaps some practice, close to the beach is in order?) When I grabbed perimeter rope on the opposite side and tried to get in, the boat tipped over on top of me. Then I tried both ends and couldn't get up enough to stay on. I started feeling really cold and could feel my strength going on a long trip. I decided "to heck with this, if this goes on much longer I'm in real trouble", so I pulled out one of the flares I had and popped it up into the sky. When I was trying to get into the boat the moving around seemed to be pumping cold water into my "dry" clothes so I decided to stop the futile effort and just float, holding onto the boat. Just as I was about to pop off my remaining two flares,the guy that went out just before me, who had been paddling around the harbor looking at the boats, showed up. He saw my flare from near by and came right over. With him to help, by stabilizing my boat by holding onto the opposite side of my boat and pushing down on the gunwale, I was easily able to pull myself up onto the boat, even in my near exhausted state. There I just lay crosswise on my belly like a beached whale for two minutes, catching my breath and enoying being out of the cold water. I rolled over, sat, and pulled in my paddle by the tether and was ready to paddle back in when one of the MBK people showed up. Tom? Thin younger than me guy with short hair, really nice. He said to go on in and stand under the hot shower and drink sumpin' hot. I got ashore and felt OK on the way in, guess the exercise made me feel warmer. By the time I got up to the shop I was shaking with cold so when I did the hot shower thing it was almost as good as sex. (Certainly not as good as sex in the hot shower.) In a very short time I felt fine and got into dry clothes and downed some hot cocoa and was in good shape. Spoke to the CG on the phone, they showed up about the time I was hitting the beach. The experience taught me a little. (Definition of experience, mistakes that you live through.) I immediately bought one of Matt's paddle floats, which would have allowed me to easily and quickly re-enter the boat. I didn't think I needed one in a SOT. Now I think it's a good idea. I didn't experience any trouble getting into a sit in side boat during the classes I took at Santa Cruz. In the future I plan to carry it 80% inflated in the tank well behind my seat under bungees as suggested in the manual. This will be conveniently to hand and quicker to implement if I don't have to blow them up, while I'm in the water. I think I may get a second one as a backup or to use one on each end of the paddle if anybody ever gets hurt or so cold they can't paddle very well, or sea sick. I'm going to rig a stirrup to use with the paddle floatsystem, too, which will make it even quicker to get out of the water. COLD water sucks! I'm glad I had, at least, the sense to confine my paddling to an area where I was probably always under someone's eye, in the cannery row/harbor area. If I hadn't and had been dressed for a summer's day, I might have been in REAL trouble. My wife is buying me a wet suit for Christmas and with that on over a polartec longjohn top, and under a Polartec vest and "dry" paddling jacket, I should be a lot more comfortable if I do end up in the wet away from my boat. In the summer some of that insulation will have to go. When diving, in a wet suit, I didn't get cold for an hour or so. Already using a paddle tether which made it easier to try to get into the boat without losing that. For anyone who hasn't seen Matt's float, it comes with tether that is long enough so you can probably leave it snapped to the boat while doing your boat re-entry. For the sit in side crew he describes what sounds like a really good idea, if you're in really rough conditions and your roll isn't bombproof, for fastening it to the middle of your paddle where you could paddle with it on and then if you capsize you can easily, & very quickly,push it to the end of your paddle and use it to right the boat. It's very well made and can even double as a dry bag and still be used as a float. Good design, Matt, not that I'm surprised, after reading you here and on your web site. 'Nother problem was my PFD rode up, which means I wasn't floating as high in the water as I'd like. That might have made a real difference in re-entering the boat, who knows. I looked at all the PFDs that MBK had and they all looked as tho' they might ride up. The Tactical Float vest has crotch straps like a 'jump' harness which would make sure the flotation stayed low on you. It might make sense to use crotch straps on any vest. As Shakespeare said, "all's well that ends well." If anyone can learn from my mistakes (besides me, I hope), the discomfort and fear will have been worthwhile. Comments and suggestions welcome, I developed a thick skin when I was a cop and this isn't the first time I made a mistake. I think there was one about 42 years ago when I got married the first time. :-) Happy by tes, ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Flory, San Jose, CA. daflory_at_pacbell.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Speak softly and study Aikido, then you won't need a big stick. ©1999 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Dave Flory wrote: > Comments and suggestions welcome, I developed a thick skin when I was a cop and this isn't the first time I made a mistake. I think there was one about 42 years ago when I got married the first time. :-) Hell of a story, Dave. Appreciate the candor. Just curious what the water temp was when you went in. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Dave Flory said: > I had an experience today at Monterey that drove home to me, very solidly, the philosophy of backup the backup plan that Matt and Doug seem to propound often. < major snip> > 'Nother problem was my PFD rode up, which means I wasn't floating as high in the water as I'd like. That might have made a real difference in re-entering the boat, who knows. I looked at all the PFDs that MBK had and they all looked as tho' they might ride up. The Tactical Float vest has crotch straps like a 'jump' harness which would make sure the flotation stayed low on you. It might make sense to use crotch straps on any vest. > Thanks Dave for your story and insight into the events. I've also wondered why crotch straps (something like a climbing harness) doesn't seem to be available from the PFD manufacturers. My body shape could be best likened to a pear. I've never found a PFD that doesn't ride up unless I tighten it down to the point I can barely breathe sitting down. Once I'm in a swimming position the once tight PFD is now loose and up it comes. The PFD I'm currently using is a Lotus and is the best I've found so far, but it's still far from perfect. Buying one PFD after another trying to find one that doesn't ride up gets expensive after a while. I know the Coast Guard frowns on making alterations, but maybe a couple of fastex (SP?) fasteners for a harness attachment might escape their notice. Has anybody else solved this problem? Rob. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
"Robinson, Rob" wrote: > > Dave Flory said: > > > The Tactical Float vest has crotch straps like a 'jump' harness which would make sure the flotation stayed low on you. It might make sense to use crotch straps on any vest. > > > Thanks Dave for your story and insight into the events. I've also wondered why crotch straps (something like a climbing harness) doesn't seem to be available from the PFD manufacturers. > I know the Coast Guard frowns on making alterations, but maybe a couple of fastex (SP?) fasteners for a harness attachment might escape their notice. Has anybody else solved this problem? If you wear your PFD over your sprayskirt, crotch straps don't work very well. That is, how the heck do you buckle them? Extrasport canoe vests have loops on the inside for the addition of crotch straps, but you couldn't wear one in a kayak, because it's too long. I think the idea of crotch straps makes a lot of sense when you're swimming. I just can't figure out how to use them paddling. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> -----Original Message----- > From: Steve Cramer [mailto:cramer_at_coe.uga.edu] > > If you wear your PFD over your sprayskirt, crotch straps > don't work very > well. That is, how the heck do you buckle them? Extrasport canoe vests > have loops on the inside for the addition of crotch straps, but you > couldn't wear one in a kayak, because it's too long. > > I think the idea of crotch straps makes a lot of sense when you're > swimming. I just can't figure out how to use them paddling. So what we really need is crotch straps for our spray skirts and PFD's that fasten via fastex type clips to the spray skirts....... Somebody just needs to sell the concept to Lotus. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Thu, 9 Dec 1999, Steve Cramer wrote: > If you wear your PFD over your sprayskirt, crotch straps don't work very > well. Unless the crotch straps attached to the inside of the vest near chest level. You could still have the sprayskirt tunnel under your vest but cover the crotch straps. kirk *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> So what we really need is crotch straps for our spray skirts and PFD's >that fasten via fastex type clips to the spray skirts....... > > Somebody just needs to sell the concept to Lotus. I've spent just as much time as anybody else "messin about OUT of small boats" - other than Arthur Hebert :-) For years I ran a deployable crotch strap that I added to my UK Wild Water PFD. It worker great once out of the kayak where I could "skirt" around spray-deck issues. When I finally bought my new Lotus PFD, it worked well enough without augmentation. I had to go to the authorized retailer to help with the proper fitting, and since have learned how to maximize a tight fit for swimming without being overly tight for when you are sitting down. You need someone who knows there stuff - more than likely that retailer will also be into WW gear, as well. As far as Input to Lotus, I met the R&R guy at the PT Symposium. I had some real concerns over the 50 foot tow rope that I used on the Storm Island tow for 6 hours (needed a better way to shorten it to 30 feet). The guy was more interested in a blond that was walking on the beach than hearing my input. Fine. My next purchase will be from Palm Equipment. BC'in Ya Doug Lloyd *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Doug Lloyd wrote: > As far as Input to Lotus, I met the R&R guy at the PT Symposium. I had some > real concerns over the 50 foot tow rope that I used on the Storm Island tow > for 6 hours (needed a better way to shorten it to 30 feet). The guy was > more interested in a blond that was walking on the beach than hearing my > input. Fine. My next purchase will be from Palm Equipment. Guy musta been young. He clearly has not perfected the dirty old man trick of paying rapt attention to paddlers pouring their hearts about gear while lusting in his own heart after every passing lovely. Actually, I think he had his priorities right. :-) -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Thanks Dave for your story and insight into the events. I've also wondered why crotch > straps (something like a climbing harness) doesn't seem to be available from the PFD > manufacturers. My body shape could be best likened to a pear. I've never found a PFD that > doesn't ride up unless I tighten it down to the point I can barely breathe sitting down. Once > I'm in a swimming position the once tight PFD is now loose and up it comes. The PFD I'm > currently using is a Lotus and is the best I've found so far, but it's still far from perfect. > Buying one PFD after another trying to find one that doesn't ride up gets expensive after a > while. I know the Coast Guard frowns on making alterations, but maybe a couple of fastex (SP?) > fasteners for a harness attachment might escape their notice. Has anybody else solved this > problem? > Rob. Hey there Rob, My shape is more conducive to a vest(pear, but inverted), but will still ride up if it is no fastened in the sequence that came in the directions. zipper, belt, side buckles them shoulder straps in that order. Maybe velcro? -- : : Gabriel L Romeu : http://studiofurniture.com furniture from the workshop : http://members.xoom.com/gabrielR life as a tourist, daily journal : http://users.aol.com/romeugp paintings, photographs, etchings, objects *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Seems like this PFD would be useless for paddling...way too long! cya -----Original Message----- From: owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net]On Behalf Of Dave Flory Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 1999 10:07 AM To: Dave Flory; paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Flotation vest with (many) pockets > > Your URL points to a -future- computer software site. No PFD's that I can > > see. > > Sorry about that, they didn't warn me they were taking it down for a redo. :-) > OOPS, I'm really sorry about that, I found the site a couple of weeks ago and lost the URL. I then did a search for BlackHawk, yesterday, and messed up. The site of BlackHawk Industries is: http://blackhawkindustries.com/ And the "tactical float vest" is at the top of: http://blackhawkindustries.com/cgi-bin/getdbentry.pl?page=bhwelcome.html in their online catalog. I'm really sorry if sent many people on a wild goose chase. Fair paddle weather and happy bytes, ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Flory, San Jose, CA. daflory_at_pacbell.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Speak softly and study Aikido, then you won't need a big stick. ©1999 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>From: Bob Denton <BDenton_at_aquagulf.com> >And the "tactical float vest" is at the top of: > >http://blackhawkindustries.com/cgi-bin/getdbentry.pl?page=bhwelcome.html > I think you have to read the product description carefully. It says "Coast Guard approved closed cell foam fills panels". It does not say that the vest itself is approved. I expect police and military users have special excemptions that do not apply to civilians. Philip Torrens N49°16' W123°06' *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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