<snip> Peter Treby wrote: >I also tried an air pressure system, blowing air from a spa heater unit into the >boat and finding leaks by running a thick detergent/water mix over the suspect >area and watching for bubbles. I wonder how many new boats would be totally >watertight? Watertight? Better still ... how about A-I-R-tight? My Nigel Dennis Kayaks Romany Explorer appears to meet the airtight test. When removing my boat from the relative coolness of the garage, preparatory to loading onto the car rack, I need to install my hatch covers markedly depressed into the hatch. Even so, on a warm day, when I unload my boat about an hour later, the hatch covers are bulging outwards alarmingly (gotta get those grommets and tethers installed!) as the heated air expands inside the enclosed hatch. Conversely, after I put the warm hull into the water, after "burping" my hatches, the hatch covers soon sink well down into the hatch as the cooling air "shrinks." I typically need to have them burped at least once during my paddle. I've never found so much as a drop of water in my hatch compartments even following activities where my boat spends a lot of time upside down with the hatches under water. Oh, I bought my new NDK Romany Explorer early this year. It was built in late '98. Built like a tank. Heavy, too; my scale says 68 lbs. I reckon it's watertight. Hope it stays that way. Probably will, given the way it's built. (Thanks Nigel, and thanks to you, too, Aled. :-) If your hatch covers do NOT exhibit this behavior with hull temperature changes, then maybe (?) you've got a potential water leak. Regards, Bruce *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
My skerray hatches also bulge and 'suck in' like this. But I still get water in sometimes!!!!??!!? Nicholas Gill School of Geography and Oceanography University of NSW Australian Defence Force Academy Canberra ACT 2600 Ph. 02 6268 8317 Mob. 041 7659440 Fax 02 6268 8313 Email: nicholas.gill_at_adfa.edu.au ---------- > From: lenonm_at_milwaukee.tec.wi.us > To: PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Cc: Peter Treby <ptreby_at_ozemail.com.au> > Subject: [Paddlewise] Deck/hull seam > Date: Thursday, 16 December 1999 20:59 > > <snip> Peter Treby wrote: > >I also tried an air pressure system, blowing air from a spa heater unit > into the > >boat and finding leaks by running a thick detergent/water mix over the suspect > >area and watching for bubbles. I wonder how many new boats would be totally > >watertight? > > Watertight? Better still ... how about A-I-R-tight? > > My Nigel Dennis Kayaks Romany Explorer appears to meet the airtight test. > When removing my boat from the relative coolness of the garage, preparatory > to loading onto the car rack, I need to install my hatch covers markedly > depressed into the hatch. Even so, on a warm day, when I unload my boat > about an hour later, the hatch covers are bulging outwards alarmingly (gotta > get those grommets and tethers installed!) as the heated air expands inside > the enclosed hatch. Conversely, after I put the warm hull into the water, > after "burping" my hatches, the hatch covers soon sink well down into the > hatch as the cooling air "shrinks." I typically need to have them burped at > least once during my paddle. > > I've never found so much as a drop of water in my hatch compartments even > following activities where my boat spends a lot of time upside down with the > hatches under water. > > Oh, I bought my new NDK Romany Explorer early this year. It was built in > late '98. Built like a tank. Heavy, too; my scale says 68 lbs. > > I reckon it's watertight. Hope it stays that way. Probably will, given the > way it's built. (Thanks Nigel, and thanks to you, too, Aled. :-) > > If your hatch covers do NOT exhibit this behavior with hull temperature > changes, then maybe (?) you've got a potential water leak. > > Regards, > > Bruce > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not > to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> I reckon it's watertight. Hope it stays that way. Probably will, given the > way it's built. (Thanks Nigel, and thanks to you, too, Aled. :-) > > If your hatch covers do NOT exhibit this behavior with hull temperature > changes, then maybe (?) you've got a potential water leak. Some of the Current Designs boats, and I'm told that some of the P&H boats, have a pin hole drilled in the center of each bulkhead to prevent what you described. As I understand it, there is the danger of the blowing off because of the pressure/vacuum and the pin hole prevents this from building up. I discovered this after self-rescue practice and finding a few drops of water in one of the hatches. Woody *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>>> > I reckon it's watertight. Hope it stays that way. Probably will, given the > way it's built. (Thanks Nigel, and thanks to you, too, Aled. :-) > > If your hatch covers do NOT exhibit this behavior with hull temperature > changes, then maybe (?) you've got a potential water leak. Some of the Current Designs boats, and I'm told that some of the P&H boats, have a pin hole drilled in the center of each bulkhead to prevent what you described. As I understand it, there is the danger of the blowing off because of the pressure/vacuum and the pin hole prevents this from building up. I discovered this after self-rescue practice and finding a few drops of water in one of the hatches. Woody >>> My wife and I both have Romanys, so after Derek Hutchinson recommended drilling holes in our bulkheads, we asked Nigel Dennis about it. He doesn't think it is necessary, since there is plenty of flex in the hatch covers to allow for increased pressure. The only problem is, after a couple years of periodic inflation, the VCP cover on the day hatch develops a permanent bulge; the Kajaksport covers do not. For some reason, my stern hatch cover never bulges, yet I have never found water in the stern hatch, whereas the forward hatch, the cover of which bulges slightly when the temperature rises rapidly, usually has a few ounces of water in it after rolling. A water test revealed that one of the screw holes for the footbrace had penetrated the fiberglass cloth sealing the forward bulkhead, allowing water to wick in, but even after I did my best to seal both the screw hole and the bulkhead, the problem persists. On my wife's Romany, both Kajaksport hatch covers still bulge after three years, but the VCP day hatch cover does not. Chuck Holst *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>My skerray hatches also bulge and 'suck in' like this. But I still get water in >sometimes!!!!??!!? Yes????!!??! *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
From: Nick Gill <nicholas.gill_at_adfa.edu.au> wrote: >My skerray hatches also bulge and 'suck in' like this. But I still get water in sometimes!!!!??!!? ...Happened to me, too, on a hot day. I think the negative pressure in the hatch that develops from placing the heated boat into the water creates a situation in which water will be sucked in when rolling or bracing (or trying to). *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Bob Volin wrote: > > From: Nick Gill <nicholas.gill_at_adfa.edu.au> wrote: > > >My skerray hatches also bulge and 'suck in' like this. But I still get > water in sometimes!!!!??!!? > > ...Happened to me, too, on a hot day. I think the negative pressure in the > hatch that develops from placing the heated boat into the water creates a > situation in which water will be sucked in when rolling or bracing (or > trying to). > It also happens, albeit a bit reversed, with seasocks if you do too much burping of them, i.e. less air pressure inside the cockpit to keep water from leaking through or even popping the sea sock. Which makes me wonder whether there could be such a thing as overburping a dry suit. ralph -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Chuck Holst wrote: > My wife and I both have Romanys, so after Derek Hutchinson recommended > drilling holes in our bulkheads, we asked Nigel Dennis about it. He > doesn't think it is necessary, since there is plenty of flex in the > hatch covers to allow for increased pressure. > If traveling with such an air-tight boat over high mountain ranges, it might be worth thinking about opening the hatches to let the compartments 'breathe'. About 10 years ago I took a trip to Colorado and Utah (crossing over the Rockies) with friends, and we brought along canoes and WW kayaks for an intensive two week paddling vacation. My friends' canoe had fiberglassed-in air chambers in both the bow and stern (totally air-tight) for floatation, and they noticed after the trip that the hull of the canoe was not as fair as it was before the trip, as there were noticeable - and permanent - bulges in the hull. (My FG canoe, also with glassed-in chambers, wasn't affected). The manufacturer gave them a really good deal on a replacement canoe, but this incident illustrates that pressure changes due to altitude gain are more severe than those induced by temperature changes at the same altitude. I wonder what Nigel would say about traveling over high mountain passes with air-tight hatches? Do the hatch covers have enough flex/stretch to assume a balloon-like appearance? Anyone have first-hand experience? Erik Sprenne (at the southern end of Lake Michigan) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
----- Original Message ----- From: Erik Sprenne <sprenne_at_netnitco.net> My friends' canoe had > fiberglassed-in air chambers in both the bow and stern (totally air-tight) > for floatation, and they noticed after the trip that the hull of the canoe > was not as fair as it was before the trip, as there were noticeable - and > permanent - bulges in the hull Noticed the same bulges on a glass canoe I had, although not permanent. I agree with drilling very small holes in bulkheads to relieve air pressure. At about 8.4 lbs per gallon it takes a lot of water to hurt performance. I even chucked my neopreme hatch cover and put foam tape on the hatch combing of a kayak to greatly reduce the fuss-factor of actually using the hatch. Takes a bit of water, so what? I don't rely on air behind the hatch for flotation. Trying to create a 100% watertight boat is obsessive, distracting and futile. Bob *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Erik Sprenne wrote: > > > If traveling with such an air-tight boat over high mountain ranges, it > might be worth thinking about opening the hatches to let the compartments > 'breathe'. About 10 years ago I took a trip to Colorado and Utah (crossing > over the Rockies) with friends, and we brought along canoes and WW kayaks > for an intensive two week paddling vacation. My friends' canoe had > fiberglassed-in air chambers in both the bow and stern (totally air-tight) > for floatation, Good timely advice that works well for folding kayaks that are being cartopped. Especially on the West Coast where you can quickly go from sea level to very high elevations in the matter of a few hours. I reported this quite a few years ago in the newsletter in a note from a California reader who had his sponson seams pop. He had left his sea level home in the cool morning and driven into higher elevations. Between the elevation gain and the heated up air, the air in the sponsons, which had been fully inflated when he left home, expanded excessively and popped the seams in places. Conceivably the same could happen if you start off on a shady cool morning with fully inflated sponsons and then drive, even at level altitudes, into a day in which the sun beats down strongly and the air heats up 25-30 degrees or more, not an untypical day in many places in the late spring and early summer. ralph -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I've never had a problem with bulging hatches on my Romany - but I always burp all of the hatches. My husband (who also has a Romany) does have bulging hatches. He doesn't usually burp his hatches. I always thought that was the one variable, but now I'm hearing that the hatches may bulge even if they are burped! On Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:32:00 -0600 Chuck Holst <CHUCK_at_multitech.com> writes: > >>> > > I reckon it's watertight. Hope it stays that way. Probably will, > given > the > > way it's built. (Thanks Nigel, and thanks to you, too, Aled. :-) > > > > If your hatch covers do NOT exhibit this behavior with hull > temperature > > changes, then maybe (?) you've got a potential water leak. > > Some of the Current Designs boats, and I'm told that some of the P&H > boats, > have a pin hole drilled in the center of each bulkhead to prevent > what > you > described. As I understand it, there is the danger of the blowing > off > because of the pressure/vacuum and the pin hole prevents this from > building > up. > > I discovered this after self-rescue practice and finding a few drops > of > water in one of the hatches. > > Woody > >>> > > My wife and I both have Romanys, so after Derek Hutchinson > recommended > drilling holes in our bulkheads, we asked Nigel Dennis about it. He > doesn't think it is necessary, since there is plenty of flex in the > hatch covers to allow for increased pressure. The only problem is, > after > a couple years of periodic inflation, the VCP cover on the day hatch > develops a permanent bulge; the Kajaksport covers do not. > > For some reason, my stern hatch cover never bulges, yet I have never > found water in the stern hatch, whereas the forward hatch, the cover > of > which bulges slightly when the temperature rises rapidly, usually > has a > few ounces of water in it after rolling. A water test revealed that > one > of the screw holes for the footbrace had penetrated the fiberglass > cloth > sealing the forward bulkhead, allowing water to wick in, but even > after > I did my best to seal both the screw hole and the bulkhead, the > problem > persists. On my wife's Romany, both Kajaksport hatch covers still > bulge > after three years, but the VCP day hatch cover does not. > > Chuck Holst > ************************************************************************* ** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author > and not > to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > ************************************************************************* ** ___________________________________________________________________ Why pay more to get Web access? Try Juno for FREE -- then it's just $9.95/month if you act NOW! Get your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>> >My skerray hatches also bulge and 'suck in' like this. But I still get >> water in sometimes!!!!??!!? >> >> ...Happened to me, too, on a hot day. I think the negative pressure in the >> hatch that develops from placing the heated boat into the water creates a >> situation in which water will be sucked in when rolling or bracing (or >> trying to). >> > >It also happens, albeit a bit reversed, with seasocks if you do too much >burping of them, i.e. less air pressure inside the cockpit to keep water >from leaking through or even popping the sea sock. > >Which makes me wonder whether there could be such a thing as overburping >a dry suit. > >ralph Only for cold-hearted paddlers.... ;-> Bob *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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