> Doug Lloyd wrote: > > It _does not_ have to be extreme-like conditions for a paddler to have > problems. Over the last couple of decades, I've seen it all - paddlers > desperately ill, due to not changing the water in their water bottle since > their last trip; new paddlers totally in panic mode, unable to deal with > their lack of perceived stability, then placing undue requirements on a > partner or group (to the point where they physically will not let go of > you, even after attempts to calm them down). Are you saying someone grabbed either your boat or someone elses boat in your party and would not let it go because of panic and could not be calmed down? I've seen people panic to the point of not being able to move but never experienced someone grabbing my kayak and not letting it go. What do you do when that happens? I know it's risky business to rescue a drowning swimmer or someone panicking in the water (they sometimes try to climb on top of their rescuer...) I was swimming down a river holding on to my boat (which we often did in calm stretches to cool off during hot weather) when a panicky lab in the water tried to do this to me and I kept ducking under my boat to the opposite side. He kept swimming around my boat after me until I reached shore... not sure what I would have been able to do if I'd not had my boat to place between us... he sure could maneuver around in the water fast, though. Cheers, Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Mon, 24 Jan 2000 16:48:53 -0800 (PST), Jackie Fenton wrote: Doug Lloyd wrote: <sniped> >> new paddlers totally in panic mode, unable to deal with their lack of perceived stability, then placing undue requirements on a partner or group (to the point where they physically will not let go of you, even after attempts to calm them down).>> >Are you saying someone grabbed either your boat or someone elses boat in your party and would not let it go because of panic and could not be calmed down?> Yes, absolutely right. Not very common above water in the relative security of a kayak. (I was a lifeguard in my late teens, so have dealt with the in-water swimmer situation). >I've seen people panic to the point of not being able to move but never experienced someone grabbing my kayak and not letting it go.> The individual in question was a big fellow, lots of talk, tore away from the group initially, then got into some chop. His upper body weight changed the picture fairly quickly. The another incident was with Fred Potter and a new paddler (I reported Fred's untimely death on PW a few months ago - funeral was awesome, with his kayak at the front and pictures all around). The newbie was another "rough-and-tough" male -- I'm not using the usual word here for that kind of guy :-) -- got freaked out when a bit of chop developed down an inlet known for its wind-funnel effect. In that case, he grabbed onto a bouy and would not let go, utilizing an incredibly strong death grip. Fred had a hard time, because once the guy finally conceded and let go in exchange to hold onto Fred's kayak, it required the newbie male to tilt a bit to hold onto Fred's kayak. This again made him feel very unstable, as whenever the kayaks separated a bit, he would tilt even further. I can't remember how Fred got out of it, other than it took a long time to get to shore, but he sure talked about it for weeks after, rather upset that the fellow had completed an extensive commercial introductory course, yet couldn't handle himself or his borrowed boat. >What do you do when that happens? I know it's risky business to rescue a drowning swimmer or someone panicking in the water (they sometimes try to climb on top of their rescuer...) <snip> > As has been mentioned on this list before, you never offer close-in assistance initially with a panicky swimmer, lest two victims emerge. I had a 250# male panic in a pool once, while he was horseplaying at the side. I came around from behind, grabbed his hair, pulled him out onto the deck (that's gotta hurt!). In the panicky kayaker in-their-boat situation, I'll present my boat's bow, which still gives you some options, yet confers to the individual in need a feeling of support -- both physically and mentally, without letting the panicky paddler grab on to you. In reality, often you pull up beside an individual to "see what's up" and you can have a "situation" fairly quickly. Unless you are near a dangerous marine hazard or boat traffic, the problem of someone wanting to stay "married" to you isn't such a big deal, ultimately. So you're rafted-up for awhile. It's not like the person is going to sink you or something. I for one can't imagine, at the point above where a safety stabilization device might be required, pulling out a Sponson type device, then trying to fit this thing to some paniky kayaker's hull. Just my thought. This may however, be a good place for the "two-paddle floats-as-training-wheels". Or, you could use a short towline, and tow backwards, keeping eye contact with the panicky person, so you remain close at hand if there is a problem and retaining the ability to offer encouragement. Leaders should practice their backwards paddling more often. If you have shoulder problems like me, backwards paddling is a good conditioner ( I call it Doug-paddling), as any arm-shoulder movement where one pushes backwards as opposed to pulling is less degenerative for rotator-cuff type injuries while strength training. The Bottom Line: Be prepared for anything (including dogs in the water tired of dog-paddling). BC'in Ya Doug Lloyd *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> From: Doug Lloyd <dlloyd_at_telus.net> > As has been mentioned on this list before, you never offer close-in > assistance initially with a panicky swimmer, lest two victims emerge. I had > a 250# male panic in a pool once, while he was horseplaying at the side. I > came around from behind, grabbed his hair, pulled him out onto the deck > (that's gotta hurt!). I read on a water-rescue training site ( http://www.WaterOperations.com/ ) that a six-year-old can drown an adult if they are panicking. So, I guess even a small person panicking in the water can be a risky rescue, not to mention 250#s 8-}. My experience with a panicky paddler was that she gave up paddling. She was in a tandem kayak and her paddling partner, also female, was struggling to paddle them both in a boat loaded with gear in some rough conditions. One of the guys ended up towing them in. <snip> > The Bottom Line: Be prepared for anything (including dogs in the water > tired of dog-paddling). Which is a good point to put a doggie life preserver on your pet. They *can* panick. About the time the lab was trying to climb on my head while I was swimming alongside my boat, a swimmer was drowned by his large pet dog that panicked in the water and attempted to get safety where he was most familiar with it. Very sad. Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Doug wrote, "..., you could use a short towline, and tow backwards, keeping eye contact with the panicky person, so you remain close at hand if there is a problem and retaining the ability to offer encouragement." Wondering how the "contact tow" would work in a situation like this, Doug? Learned this at the Great Lakes symposium two summers back. In the terminology used there, the "contact tow" involves a piece of four mil line, about one meter long, and a stainless steel Wichart (or equivalent) protected clip at each end; the towing paddler comes up bow-on to the person needing assistance, slides up the side, and, with the towee (frequently exhausted, sick or injured --- or maybe just panicky) leaning over onto the bow of the towing boat, the hooks are connected at an easily reached foredeck fitting on the towing boat to a deck fitting on the foredeck of the panicky kayaker, and the towing kayaker can then paddle at a pretty good rate by reaching across the hull of the towee's kayak, while keeping good eye contact and providing encouragement to the towee. The towee has reasonable stability, maintaining a lower center of gravity and a "rafted" effect with the towing kayak. Might wo! ! rk well in this case. (And I wish I could draw on the computer!) Jack Martin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:33:07 PDT