On Wed, 26 Jan 2000 01:00:23 -0800, Matt Broze of <mkayaks_at_oz.net> wrote: <huge snip> >>I don't know how ambitious an assignment it is to add the re-entry and roll to the repertoire. I think Doug Lloyd posted about this issue some time ago.>> Caveat: This is a post for advanced paddlers - though the term advanced juxtaposed with screwed-up, would normally be mutually exclusive. I'm in the process of writing up a full-length, in-depth article on the topic of the re-entry-and-roll technique (this is where you do a reverse somersault back in to the cockpit while inverted underwater), with and without post wet-entry stabilization for the pump-out phase. I'm not rushing the article, as I want to throughly research and test all my notions, as well as compare and contrast with previous experiences and ideas from others. SK was hoping I'd have it done to follow-up after their latest issue that profiles an older gentleman who could not perform his usual R&R in surf-like conditions. I'm not rushing, however. I have a very reliable reentry/roll, yet was unable to preform one satisfactorily during my Trial Island bail-out a couple of years ago. I would normally never fail, but was having a bad day that particular storm. Absolutely nothing compares to the R&R for speed and efficiency, other than not coming out in the first place, in which case devices like the "Back-Up" prove superior. The problem as already mentioned, is that once back in the kayak after an R&R, pumping and skirt reattachment can be difficult, if not impossible, depending upon your condition, tipsiness of your boat, type of bailing device, and degree of difficulty reattaching your particular spray skirt. That is why I practice paddling my kayak fully swamped in rough conditions, and have modified the cockpit bulkheads to minimize destabilizing water movement. I had counted on my R&R at Trial Island in the tide-race-storm-wave interface to get me back in the boat if I ever came out (not a good place for the paddlefloat rescue). Too many things went wrong though. I had forgotten my skull cap and gloves, so every time I inverted (this being only after some pathetic swimming attempts and tether entanglements leaving me further prone to the effects of cold water), I got an aweful ice cream headache. I had a brand-spanking new farmer john wetsuit, so I was as stiff as a board. I hadn't been out paddling for a few months (nothing serious, so as to be tuned-in, anyway). I was on psychotropic drugs for depression due to post-stress from my wife's cancer and near-loss of an infant, leaving me with side effects of vertigo - not the best situation in those conditions. It was in the evening at the end of a long, hard day. There were other private issues going on in my marriage, and I thought I could vent some steam out on the salt-chuck -- never a good idea (calm-to-middling conditions, then okay). I had also cut my hand on the broken paddle shaft. I really thought I had a bomb-proof reentry and roll, but not with all those contraindications coming into play. The point is, circumstances may conspire against you. I'd been paddling out there for years, usually in far worse conditions, such that I wouldn't want the Coast Guard (auxiliary, anyway) even out there. I'd never had a problem before (now there's a line you here a lot after an incident). No, I should not have gone out that day, but I did. I had a strident attitude, and gave little credence to my personal context that evening. Those of you who rely solely on a successful R&R, how do you know you won't need some multiple back-ups one day. The R&R, in my experienced opinion, should be just one of your "weapons" in your arsenal. In the end, my Sea-Seat saved me. In fact, if I had inflated it right away, at the onset of problems, I would probably have made out much better. Partially, it was pride that prevented me from doing so. And, if my cockpit seat hadn't dislodged against my forward-mounted foot-pump once I regained the cockpit from the Sea-Seat, I would have completely refused the Coast Guard's assistance, and utilized the safety device's stability for skirt reattachment prior to negotiating the overfalls to get back to shore. Regardless, I screwed-up big time. And don't forget that wind-chill factor. Air temp that evening was 50 degrees Fahrenheit, as was the water. Add 30 knots of wind speed (velocity was tapering down by the time I was swimming). With no real head protection, a free-flowing paddle jacket (I now have a dry-top), a 100% loss of heat as a minimum due to convective heat-loss, I wonder what the temperature really was? I call it "the wet-wind-chill factor", and we often forget what a dramatic difference it can make -- reducing the predictability of a successful outcome. This is true even if you do get back in, but are left sitting in a cockpit flooded by cold water. I should also mention I suffered two other injuries during that incident. I desperately tried my cherished R&R a number of times, hunched up ball-like in a curl, upside-down, trying to get back in while waves slapped me silly. Something was notably wrong with my chest. I was experiencing a wincing pain. Later, as I tried to inflate the Sea Seat hunched over the bucking hull of my thin Nordkapp, I was having a terrible time breathing and dealing with a pain of unknown origin emanating again, from my chest. It wasn't until I got to shore in the Zodiac and went to a "safe house" as I call it (I refused hospitalization, even though I could barely speak or stand up). My friend lives near the water, so went there for shower and tea. When I leaned down to tie up my shoe laces, there it was again. My zyphoid process (that triangular cartilage in the lower middle of your breast bone) was "quivering". I had to immediately stand up, and slowly bend over, careful to not "haunch" too much. Two years later, I still suffer from the problem, even when opening hatches, putting on my neoprene cycling shoe covers, etc. It sucks man. A constant reminder of my stupidity. Somebody "up there" must have a sense of humor. My second injury was to my forearm. The Coast Guard auxiliary members, though fairly big guys, could not secure my cockpit-flooded Nordkapp aboard. They were at a loss. Fearing a loss of my boat (they usually go back after the boat, once you have been returned to safety - but I didn't want to risk loosing the 300 hours I'd put into modifications on my custom kayak) I grabbed the bow toggle and yanked it aboard one-handed, using the other hand to secure myself from the slippery surface of the floor. I apparently pulled tissue right of the bone in my arm, and it was a full seven months before I could lift anything remotely heavy again. I was, however, impressed with the awesome power of adrenaline. This powerful self-produced drug is given some discussion in the book, "Deep Trouble". Well, those are the details SK left out of the article. There are others, but I'm sure I revealed far too much already. Remember, you may win some battles, but the sea always wins the war if you provoke too big a confrontation. Derek Hutchinson in one of his books, calls paddling in overfalls "suicidal". That may or may not be true, but it can be no man's land combined with a wind-storm. No flames please, my wife already turned me into Carbon 14 (a few times). BTW, the Trial Island thing cured my depression real fast - shock therapy, I guess! BC'in Ya Doug Lloyd (opprobruim of the masses, but mostly loved by the PW sub-culture) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hi Robert, I am using an Eddyline Backfloat, which has the velcro, but also has a strap with a Fastex buckle. I have learned to use the strap and buckle to secure the float to the paddleshaft, never relying on the velcro alone. To use the strap, just fold the float over the end of the blade, then wrap each end of the strap quickly around the paddleshaft, going in opposite directions with the two ends. Then snap the two halves of the buckle together. If necessary one half of the buckle cinches up tight quickly and easily. My Backfloat is not new, so maybe the newer ones don't have the buckle and strap. I think I'll get one of the Mariner paddlefloats and always have a backup. Also, one paddler I saw had modified the deck of his sprayskirt by cutting a hole sized for insertion of the lower part of a hand pump. He then attached a flap which would velcro in place when used to cover the hole. I don't know if he still got some leakage into the hole though. John Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 14:08:53 -0600 Robert wrote: "Matt: I've also had the unfortunate experience of loosening the spay skirt to hand-pump, and ended up worse than when I started because being unable to avoid the breaking waves. Do you tether your paddlefloat to the paddle or to the boat? I rationalize that the best tether scenario would be to tether the float to the paddle, and the paddle to you. Keep the tethers to a minimum and the length of the thether to a minimum. I am presently using Eddyline paddlefloats. They use a velcro strip that secures the paddle float to the paddle shaft near the blade. The velcro has often come loose during self-rescue practice. There needs to be a better way. Thanks again. Robert" *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 1/26/00 8:55:04 PM, rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com writes: << Another choice regarding a paddle float is to get one that is small enough to have on you. I currently carry a Gaia Ultralite which folds down to next to nothing and weigh just 6 ounces. >> I've never seen this. Where did you get it? Joan Spinner * * * Paddling the Chesapeake Bay watershed In a red, CD Breeze or a yellow/white Dagger Meridian SK (maybe) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
JSpinner_at_aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 1/26/00 8:55:04 PM, rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com writes: > > << Another choice regarding a paddle float is to get one that is small > enough to have on you. I currently carry a Gaia Ultralite which folds > down to next to nothing and weigh just 6 ounces. >> > > I've never seen this. Where did you get it? I have gotten some back channel requests for this as well. I did a heads up on this particular paddle float in my newsletter in mid-summer after using it awhile. I got mine from the New York Kaak Company, which will do mail order and has a nice catalog. http://www.nykayak.com or 1-800-KAYAK-99. I live so close that I just walk or ride a city bus down to his place (Randy Henriksen is the owner). One more thing about this particular paddle float in addition to other nice features I mentioned. Because of using a single chamber with just mesh on the other side, this paddle float tends to stay put on the water better than others I have used. I don't know how many of you have had the experience of a paddlefloat, well, floating around away from the desireable position of being absolutely perpendicular to the kayak; I think this happens because of the double chambers. The Gaia Ultralite doesn't do this, i.e. it stays put better on the water end of the paddlefloat rescue. I think it has to do with the paddle blade resting directly on the water since there is only mesh between it and the water. Incidentally, the air chamber is articulated in the sense that it is not just a flat item that rounds out when inflated. There is some shaping to the float portion and so it seems to grip better than other floats. Again I do want to add the caveat that this float does not have the monstrous floatability of the super large double chamber ones you find. But for a reasonably agile individual who does require enormous support as would a heavy person who was also a bit awkward, this float will do just fine. I have seen a clumsy 190-200 pounder use it okay in a bit of chop. The full name of the float is the Gaia Swell Ultralite and costs around $35. Gaia also makes a traditional double chamber paddlefloat (forget its name but it may be the Super Swell but don't quote me) which I have not seen but I suspect probably has some untraditional features as well. Gaia, BTW, makes some sensationally good dry bags that enter from the side (the length side rather than the top) and so gives you greater access to rummage for things. I also reviewed these in my newsletter at some point last year. They have an air bleeder valve to purge out trapped air and make them smaller. Other companies are doing this these days but the Gaia approach is nice. They cost a bit more than other dry bags but may be worth it if you are trying to get bulky items into small storage spaces. The bags also have compression straps that operate in conjunction with an over flap. And, so between the air bleeder valve and the compression straps cum over flap, you can get bulky things like synthetic sleeping bags and insulated clothing down to incredibly small sizes. Again, the NY Kayak Company sells them. I have no affiliation except that Randy is a friend and I have a soft spot for him since he sells 3 brands of folding kayaks (as well as hardshells). enjoy, ralph -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> -----Original Message----- > From: Robert C. Cline [mailto:rccline_at_swbell.net] > Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2000 12:09 PM > To: PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Cc: Matt Broze > Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Instability with a flooded cockpit (and more > added) > > > Matt: > > Thank you for your detailed reply. I have had success with the > paddlefloat > rescue. The new boat however does not (yet) have a rigging to secure the > outrigger. Some folks recommend not using the rigging, and I > have been able > to climb back in without it. As conditions get rougher however, I would > think the rigging to secure the paddle shaft would facilitate the > maneuver. You need the rigging to stabilize the kayak while you pump out (as well as making entry easier, especially when it is rough). > > I've also had the unfortunate experience of loosening the spay skirt to > hand-pump, and ended up worse than when I started because being unable to > avoid the breaking waves. In breakers don't use the rigging so you can disassemble things quickly. Once in the kayak don't pump until you have paddled (and braced) the now tippier kayak out of the area of breakers. You can probably do this without removing the paddlefloat from the blade so you will have it to brace on. Then depending on how rough things are I'd either try setting up the paddle float to the kayak to pump out (through the waist hole) or just pump if I was stable enough holding the paddle down with my elbow while I pumped. > > What is your opinion about carrying items in the cockpit (or sea > sack) with > you? > I often carry a my camera and some gear I want handy in a Mariner Rescue Float Plus (it can roll closed and be a dry sack too—as well as a back up for my dedicated rescue float) between my knees in the sea sock. If I was going to bail out upside down I would probably grab it after removing the sprayskirt just to make sure my camera didn't get lost (or have any chance of entrapping my feet). If there is a strong likely hood of capsize, such as if I was about to enter the surf zone, I shove it up forward of the footpedals with my feet. > Do you tether your paddlefloat to the paddle or to the boat? To the boat using a shock cord and clip that stretches enough to let me tether it in advance and never remove the tether. For more details on this read the manual on “Rescue Float” on our website. > > I rationalize that the best tether scenario would be to tether > the float to > the paddle, and the paddle to you. Keep the tethers to a minimum and the > length of the tether to a minimum. I tether both to the boat with shock cord on the theory that if I can hang onto the boat or the paddle I will have all three. Saving just one or two of them won't get you back in the boat and hanging on to them may encumber me for swimming after the boat if I loose it to the wind or breakers. > > I am presently using Eddyline paddlefloats. They use a velcro strip that > secures the paddle float to the paddle shaft near the blade. The > velcro has > often come loose during self-rescue practice. There needs to be a better > way. Our rescue Float can be secured to the paddle several ways, air pressure, a fastex buckle, and the shock cord tether. Again see the Rescue Float Manual on the website for details. Matt Broze http://www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 01:03 AM 1/27/00 -0800, Doug Lloyd wrote: > >Caveat: This is a post for advanced paddlers - though the term advanced >juxtaposed with screwed-up, would normally be mutually exclusive. > (Big Snippola) > >overfalls "suicidal". That may or may not be true, but it can be no man's >land combined with a wind-storm. No flames please, my wife already turned >me into Carbon 14 (a few times). > >Doug Lloyd (opprobruim of the masses, but mostly loved by the PW sub-culture) Doug, don't let the small minds get you down. I thoroughly enjoy your posts, and rarely do I fail to learn something from them. I must say, thought, that your posts are valuable if for no more reason than to show how a highly skilled and experienced paddler can screw up big-time if they're not thinking straight -- or even if they are, and are pushing the limits of conditions and their skill envelope. To the novice, then, the message is: "Jeez, if Lloyd can screw up like that, with all his skill and experience, think of how easy it would be for me! I'd better watch my step and not get into trouble like that." I don't mind learning from the mistakes of others. BTW, the winter paddling article was excellent and much of it applicable anywhere things get cold. Don't stop now! -- Wes *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Wes said: <snip> >I must say, thought, that your posts are valuable if for no more reason >than to show how a highly skilled and experienced paddler can screw up >big-time if they're not thinking straight -- or even if they are, and are >pushing the limits of conditions and their skill envelope. Thanks again Wes. I know some of the stuff I shared was kind of personal. Believe me, I don't throw that kind of detail into a post without a little hesitation, but I really do believe humans are a complex "animal", and one's mental state -- if indeed your brain is the most important piece of equipment, which it is of course -- is extremely important out on the sea in a changeable environment where you can't simply "hove to" like a larger vessel or "bivouac" like a climber can if weather moves in. One's mental state and attitude toward personal safety and knowing the limits -- even if for just a given day -- must be a constant concern. BTW, the time I spent swimming and struggling in the cold waters off Trial Island were a personal victory for me, in terms of overcoming some child-onset phobias. I've mentioned on this list before that I once had an irrational, yet medically recognizable fear of the ocean's vastness. I overcame that fear my jumping into the sport in a big way, soaking up every challenge I could avail myself to. One fear remained, however. I had retained a dreaded fear for what was _under_ the water. Its murky, awful depths, full of mystery and slimey, icky things. My father taught me to swim by literally throwing me into a lake in the Canadian Laurentian Mountains when I was very small. I never got over that horrible sensation of weeds creeping around and entangling my legs and little silvery fish swimming around my toes. I always hated practicing rolling and recovery skills at the lake or on the ocean, even up until that day off Trial Island. When I blew my first roll, and bailed, then did my one successful reenter and roll just prior to the paddle snapping in two, I couldn't even do that with my eyes open. I always had to close my eyes. I couldn't stand looking into the dark, green murky depths. But during the Trial Island incident, somewhere in the middle of the tide race at the point where much frustration was causing a great deal of discouragement, a sudden peace came over me. It was a point in my life, a rare moment of deep insight and clarity, that there was nothing more to fear, except fear itself. The sea was not some malignant monster, ready to swallow me into its abyss. I felt like it was kismet -- that at that particular point in time and space I was meant to be there, bobbing along, swirling around, struggling. The howling winds and breaking waves that dislodged my ball cap continuously seemed almost unnoticeable for a minute. I looked above to skyward, then peered downward. I suddenly feared nothing from below anymore. A stillness overcame me, even if it was only momentarily. I knew I had overcome something, and would overcome my present distress. I knew I would not give up. I would fight to the last possible moment on the sea's terms, but in my own way. I actually regaled in the moment, a longstanding personal challenge overcome, and a chance to focus all that I was and all that I knew about the sea. Then the noise and confusion reasserted itself and I got back to the job at hand - methodically deploying back up devices and dealing with the harsh reality the sea was imposing and my degrading state of physical being. I don't expect the above to make much sense to anyone, but it was a defining moment in my life. And now I can roll and do the reenter and roll with my eyes wide open, thanking the universe for the sky above, the sea below, and for all that is "alive" on our wonderful planet - whether biological or inert. I will give crocodiles and sharks a wide margin, however. I now use the reenter and roll for difficult landings, where I can tie off the kayak to some kelp and swim ashore, or visa versa. It is truly liberating. So, do you roll with your eyes wide open? In closing, my favorite quote on the topic of risk comes from the book by Andy Knapp, from "The Optimum Kayak" - Ragged Mountain Press: "We all have different tolerances as to our levels of acceptable risk, whether it be toward the cutting edge or the cautious, and by being able to judge the risks inherent in paddlesports, we can stay within our personal boundaries of safety." I liked it anyway. Hopefully my review of his book in the next SK will be viewed as positive and constructive. The Bottom Line Be safe out there -- reality bites, and it can bite hard and leave you with, how shall we say...an indelible impression. BC'in Ya Doug Lloyd *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Great posts. Just a thought on R&R rescues. When I was first working on these I had trouble rolling up. Though everything was set up right, it just wouldn't work. How I overcame this was to switch to an extended paddle roll (Pawlata). After working with that I bit, I was able to use my normal screw roll without a problem (go figure). The extended paddle roll provides incredible stability and is a great backup to have if you've blown your first one or two attempts and really want to get back up. I have even used it with the paddle backwards and upside down (non-power face). If I was in conditions where a roll doesn't work (stuck in surf with lots of foam) I would probably attempt a paddlefloat R&R like Bill mentioned. I think the advantage of getting back in your boat quickly out weighs the disadvantage of having to dunk that head. Another advantage is not having to worry about what is strapped to your back deck. I think many of us hear practice our rescues in the pool or during day trips. When in full expedition mode one ends up with lots of junk on the deck -- towline, spare paddle, sandals, gloves or poggies that might cause entanglement or tears or wheatever. Performing an R&R isn't as difficult as it might seem. First, line yourself up with the boat facing the stern (rear). Holding the cockpit combing and your paddle, flip yourself into the boat. The summersault which may appear daunting, but is actually quit simple. I find it easiest to simply kick my feet up onto my seat and then "walk" myself back to the footpegs. Lock yourself tight into the boat and roll up. If the first attempt fails, switch to an extended paddle and try again. Instability when upright is the biggest problem, but this is going to be a problem with a paddlefloat rescue as well. This brings us back to the topic of pumps I guess. Anyone else have tips for executing a good R&R? -Patrick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Patrick Maun <pmaun_at_bitstream.net> wrote: <SNIP> <<Lock yourself tight into the boat and roll up. If the first attempt fails, switch to an extended paddle and try again.>> Why not use the extended paddle roll the first time so there doesn't have to be a second try? When it is important that I roll back up I extend my paddle but not all the way out to a "Pawlata" (where you grab the end of one blade). I extend my hand out on the shaft until I can feel the angle of the blade with my little finger. It helps me instantly know the angle without having to feel for the oval on the shaft or slapping the blade on the surface. (I sure don't want to open my eyes in sand filled surf to have a look see. Doubt I could see anything anyway and don't want to sear my eyeballs trying.) With this mini extended roll I get greater than normal leverage without having to let go of the shaft and find the end of the blade in turbulence as with the Pawlata. It is quicker to recover your hand position once upright too (but for years I did a "Pawlata" on the river--when I really needed to get back upright in a hurry and not risk swimming the next rapid--and never got tipped again before recovering the paddling (and bracing) hand positions. Patrick Maun again concerning "Reenter and Rolling": <<Instability when upright is the biggest problem, but this is going to be a problem with a paddlefloat rescue as well. This brings us back to the topic of pumps I guess.>> Let me say this again, instability once upright is not a problem with an outrigger paddlefloat rescue (the paddle fixed to the deck perpendicular to the kayak). This to my mind is what makes it second (okay, a distant second) to Eskimo rolling but much more reliable than a Reenter and Roll or an unfixed paddle float rescue (like, unfortunately, the ACA promotes) where the paddler is unsupported in a swamped kayak and therefore much more vulnerable to capsizing again throughout the whole pumping operation which can take several minutes. Ralph mentioned the lack of suitable deck rigging on some kayaks or weak and flexible shock cord for deck rigging. True but this is usually quite easy to fix and you should do so immediately. For wimpy shock cord just buy some stiffer shock cord or the next size larger and then make an X pattern with the shock cord doubled up on the sides of the kayak ||X|| like that so you have a double layer of stiffer shock cord holding the paddle down. It is not hard to remove the paddle from this as some have suggested. I'd be more worried about the paddle slipping out while I was reentering or pumping out (so I usually put a drip ring inboard of the cord during setup and simply lift the cord to the other side of the drip ring when I'm ready to level the kayak and slip the paddle out from under the cords. Actually, I prefer about 3/16" nylon or polyester cord which I find holds the paddle blade down more firmly yet has enough elasticity to make it easy to slide the paddle out once you are all pumped out, added clothing if necessary, ate something, got a drink of water, etc., etc. and are ready to go again in your now less tippy (than when swamped) kayak. If you need to, get some nylon eyelets for about 25 cents each and drill a few holes in your deck to make a hold down set up for your paddle. Nimbus Kayaks http://nimbuskayaks.com/ has a ready made setup using webbing straps and fastex buckles with a nifty way to quickly release them when you are ready to start paddling again. Their website doesn't show a close-up but you can see it best on the Telkwa Sport picture. Just four little holes in the deck are all you have to drill to set it up. I know they sell it separately from their kayaks because I liked it so much I have bought some from them to sell in our store. Of course if you are in the surf don't fasten the paddle to the deck at all and if you manage to get upright and still have your paddle, paddle to somewhere the waves aren't breaking (shore or deeper water--whichever is safest in your particular situation) with the kayak full of water rather than messing with trying to reattach the spraydeck and pumping or bailing while still in the surf zone. In the surf you are going to need to concentrate on bracing to stay upright anyhow so what's the problem with being "more tippy" on the calm water between breakers. The Nimbus website reminded me of the thread several weeks back on construction that I didn't have time to respond to. There someone labeled Vacuum-bagging as an inferior construction method used because it is cheaper when just the opposite is true. The Nimbus website has a quick rundown of some of the advantages of vacuum-bagging under "materials" for those who are interested. Matt Broze http://www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Matt Broze wrote: > > Patrick Maun <pmaun_at_bitstream.net> wrote: > <SNIP> > <<Lock yourself tight into the boat > and roll up. If the first attempt fails, switch to an extended paddle > and try again.>> > > Why not use the extended paddle roll the first time so there doesn't have to > be a second try? When it is important that I roll back up I extend my paddle > but not all the way out to a "Pawlata" (where you grab the end of one > blade). I extend my hand out on the shaft until I can feel the angle of the > blade with my little finger. It helps me instantly know the angle without > having to feel for the oval on the shaft or slapping the blade on the > surface. (I sure don't want to open my eyes in sand filled surf to have a > look see. Doubt I could see anything anyway and don't want to sear my > eyeballs trying.) With this mini extended roll I get greater than normal > leverage without having to let go of the shaft and find the end of the blade > in turbulence as with the Pawlata. It is quicker to recover your hand > position once upright too (but for years I did a "Pawlata" on the > river--when I really needed to get back upright in a hurry and not risk > swimming the next rapid--and never got tipped again before recovering the > paddling (and bracing) hand positions. I am so glad to hear that, Matt. One of the raps against the full Pawlata roll (extended paddle position holding a blade end in the inboard hand) has been that on rolling up you were not in a good paddling position. You survived in WW using it, so it must be okay, albeit the modified or mini version of the Pawlata you mention (the inboard hand shifted over along the shaft to just where it meets the blade and you can feel the blade angle alongside the crook of your pinky) is better for recovering normal paddling position. > > Patrick Maun again concerning "Reenter and Rolling": > <<Instability when upright is the biggest problem, but > this is going to be a problem with a paddlefloat rescue as well. This > brings us back to the topic of pumps I guess.>> > > Let me say this again, instability once upright is not a problem with an > outrigger paddlefloat rescue (the paddle fixed to the deck perpendicular to > the kayak). This to my mind is what makes it second (okay, a distant second) > to Eskimo rolling but much more reliable than a Reenter and Roll or an > unfixed paddle float rescue (like, unfortunately, the ACA promotes) where > the paddler is unsupported in a swamped kayak and therefore much more > vulnerable to capsizing again throughout the whole pumping operation which > can take several minutes. > Ralph mentioned the lack of suitable deck rigging on some kayaks or weak and > flexible shock cord for deck rigging. True but this is usually quite easy to > fix and you should do so immediately. For wimpy shock cord just buy some > stiffer shock cord or the next size larger and then make an X pattern with > the shock cord doubled up on the sides of the kayak ||X|| like that so > you have a double layer of stiffer shock cord holding the paddle down. It is > not hard to remove the paddle from this as some have suggested. Matt, you obviously have more of a finger on sea kayaking accidents than I have but I do recall hearing some published tales of paddlers re-capsizing when trying to yank out the inboard blade from a tightly fitting bungee or cord X pattern. And I have seen it happen in calm water during practice drills. My guess is that when a capsize occurs while yanking it is because of poor technique or letting down one's guard. A person yanking out the blade should make certain that the paddle float remain active, i.e. still be in contact with the water while yanking, and then skimmed back across the water for removal of the float or left on to continue resting or let the adrenalin simmer down. ralph -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Matt Broze wrote: > It is not hard to remove the paddle from this as some have suggested. Then I must be doing something wrong. I find with the curved deck and the spoon of the paddle "nesting", the paddle shaft is sloped down into the water. In order to release it, I have to lean away from the paddle side to lift the paddle and then pull it out. I'd rather have a quick release arrangement, like the Seaward (or is it Nimbus?) kayaks. Alternatively, leave the paddle float until it's convenient and use the spare paddle. Fortunately I've not had to do this since I've learned to roll. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Matt: You describe the ||X|| pattern (Doug illustrated this set up in his recent SK article) for a paddle float rigging and the Telkwa support. I've got a Romany Explorer and the "day hatch" presents an obstruction. Any ideas about a work-around for a paddle float rigging? Robert Matt wrote: > From: Matt Broze <mkayaks_at_oz.net> > Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 00:55:53 -0800 > To: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Instability with a flooded cockpit (and more added) > > <snip>.... then make an X pattern with > the shock cord doubled up on the sides of the kayak ||X|| like that so > you have a double layer of stiffer shock cord holding the paddle down <snip>. > .... Actually, I prefer about > 3/16" nylon or polyester cord which I find holds the paddle blade down more > firmly yet has enough elasticity to make it easy to slide the paddle out > once you are all pumped out, added clothing if necessary, ate something, got > a drink of water, etc., etc. and are ready to go again in your now less > tippy (than when swamped) kayak. ....<snip> make a hold down > set up for your paddle. Nimbus Kayaks http://nimbuskayaks.com/ has a ready > made setup using webbing straps and fastex buckles with a nifty way to > quickly release them when you are ready to start paddling again. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I think Matt Broze wrote: > Why not use the extended paddle roll the first time so there > doesn't have to > be a second try? When it is important that I roll back up I > extend my paddle > but not all the way out to a "Pawlata" (where you grab the end of one > blade). Snip Then again why not perfect your roll with your hand in home position on the shaft. There is plenty of leverage from this position. I find that extending the paddle increases the strain on that shoulder in addition to the disadvantages of having changed your grip. Most people in most boats with enough instruction and practice can establish a reliable roll without changing their hand position, if they have the desire. -- Rob Cookson 3 Hats Design http://www.3hats.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Does the use of a sea sock increase the difficulty of getting back into the boat? Robert Patrick wrote: > From: Patrick Maun <pmaun_at_bitstream.net> > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:29:19 -0600 > To: PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Cc: PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Instability with a flooded cockpit (and more added) > > Performing an R&R isn't as difficult as it might seem. First, line > yourself up with the boat facing the stern (rear). Holding the > cockpit combing and your paddle, flip yourself into the boat. The > summersault which may appear daunting, but is actually quit simple. I > find it easiest to simply kick my feet up onto my seat and then > "walk" myself back to the footpegs. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 1/31/00 9:35:03 PM Pacific Standard Time, rob_cookson_at_mindspring.com writes: > I find that > extending the paddle increases the strain on that shoulder in addition to > the disadvantages of having changed your grip. > > Most people in most boats with enough instruction and practice can establish > a reliable roll without changing their hand position, if they have the > desire. On the other hand: Most people in most boats with enough instruction and practice can establish a reliable roll which will not unduly strain their shoulder, regardless of their hand position, if they have the desire. Sorry, Rob. I couldn't resist. But it is true; there should be no strain with an extended paddle roll. Watch the Greenlanders roll -- extended. Do what works, but be kind to your body. :^) Harold *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> On the other hand: > > Most people in most boats with enough instruction and practice > can establish > a reliable roll which will not unduly strain their shoulder, > regardless of > their hand position, if they have the desire. > > Sorry, Rob. I couldn't resist. But it is true; there should be > no strain > with an extended paddle roll. Watch the Greenlanders roll -- extended. > > Do what works, but be kind to your body. :^) > > Harold While this may be true, what is the advantage of extending a western paddle if you are not using it to get more support? My point is that a sweep roll should be 90% hips and 10% arms (no this is not meant to be an exact ratio). When you extend the paddle I assume it is to change that ratio and allow the arms/shoulders to do more work. But yes, whatever floats (rights?) your boat. The only bad roll is the one that leaves you with your head underwater. cheers -- Rob Cookson http://www.3hats.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Great posts. Just a thought on R&R rescues. When I was first working on these I had trouble rolling up. Though everything was set up right, it just wouldn't work. How I overcame this was to switch to an extended paddle roll (Pawlata). After working with that I bit, I was able to use my normal screw roll without a problem (go figure). The extended paddle roll provides incredible stability and is a great backup to have if you've blown your first one or two attempts and really want to get back up. I have even used it with the paddle backwards and upside down (non-power face). If I was in conditions where a roll doesn't work (stuck in surf with lots of foam) I would probably attempt a paddlefloat R&R like Bill mentioned. I think the advantage of getting back in your boat quickly out weighs the disadvantage of having to dunk that head. Another advantage is not having to worry about what is strapped to your back deck. I think many of us hear practice our rescues in the pool or during day trips. When in full expedition mode one ends up with lots of junk on the deck -- towline, spare paddle, sandals, gloves or poggies that might cause entanglement or tears or wheatever. Performing an R&R isn't as difficult as it might seem. First, line yourself up with the boat facing the stern (rear). Holding the cockpit combing and your paddle, flip yourself into the boat. The summersault which may appear daunting, but is actually quit simple. I find it easiest to simply kick my feet up onto my seat and then "walk" myself back to the footpegs. Lock yourself tight into the boat and roll up. If the first attempt fails, switch to an extended paddle and try again. Instability when upright is the biggest problem, but this is going to be a problem with a paddlefloat rescue as well. This brings us back to the topic of pumps I guess. Anyone else have tips for executing a good R&R? -Patrick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Ralph wrote: <<<SNIP>...I do recall hearing some published tales of paddlers re-capsizing when trying to yank out the inboard blade from a tightly fitting bungee or cord X pattern. And I have seen it happen in calm water during practice drills. My guess is that when a capsize occurs while yanking it is because of poor technique or letting down one's guard. A person yanking out the blade should make certain that the paddle float remain active, i.e. still be in contact with the water while yanking, and then skimmed back across the water for removal of the float or left on to continue resting or let the adrenalin simmer down.>> Ralph, were you teaching those who capsized? The reason I asked is because what you said about having the paddlefloat remain active as you pull it out could be causing the problems you have seen. I think those who capsize when doing this have been doing the right thing while using the paddlefloat (that is) leaning their weight more to the float side. The catch comes when it is time to slip the paddle out from under the deck lines. Then you must get the kayak back on an even keel and for a second quit depending on the paddlefloat to stabilize the kayak. With no weight holding the paddlefloat down it is easy to slip the paddle out from under the deck lines with one quick arm motion and bring it in front of your body in normal paddling position. The float may still be resting on the water when you do this but no downward pressure should be applied to it at that time. I usually lean slightly away from the float side until it just starts to lift off the water to know it is free to be slid out from under the deck lines. If you keep leaning on the float you will find it is much harder to remove the paddle (due to the leverage on the deck) and if you do manage to remove it as soon as it is free you will tip towards the float side. Done right you must balance for about one second while you remove the paddle and get it into bracing position. If you don't outrigger the paddle by fixing it to the kayak you will need to balance for several minutes while also trying to operate the pump. If that is what I would be facing after a capsize I would take electric and foot pumps a lot more seriously so I could keep both hands on the paddle ready to brace during pump-out (but every footpump I have tried gives me leg cramps. Mike wrote: <<Then I must be doing something wrong. I find with the curved deck and the spoon of the paddle "nesting", the paddle shaft is sloped down into the water. In order to release it, I have to lean away from the paddle side to lift the paddle and then pull it out. I'd rather have a quick release arrangement, like the Seaward (or is it Nimbus?) kayaks.>> As far as I know Nimbus invented it but I think Seaward may be using it too. A quick release works fine but again you must put the kayak in a balanced position when you release the buckle (And in Mikes case that will be while leaning away from the float) or the rug will be pulled out from under you here too. Have you tried turning the paddle over so the spoon is up (I realize it will be harder to slide into position that way but if doable this may also make releasing the setup easier. Other solutions include using paddles and boats with less curvature to them. Comment on the German pump thread: Why not hook the rudder up to the pump so every time you use the rudder pedals you will be pumping the kayak too--and not need four separate pedals? The Lendal pump was a tube mounted on the footbrace bar so even without a rudder normal foot pressure changes during paddling strokes operated the pump--sounds good to me but I don't recall having had the chance to try this pump out. I understand it was a very low capacity pump. Anyone with experience with it care to comment on the Lendal pump? When practicing any rescue make sure you don't always stop when you are back upright. At least some of the time do the full pump-out as well or you will be getting a very distorted picture of your competence at rescues. Matt Broze http://www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Matt Broze wrote: > > Ralph wrote: > <<<SNIP>...I do recall hearing some published tales of paddlers > re-capsizing when trying to yank out the inboard blade from a tightly > fitting bungee or cord X pattern. And I have seen it happen in calm > water during practice drills. My guess is that when a capsize occurs > while yanking it is because of poor technique or letting down one's > guard. A person yanking out the blade should make certain that the > paddle float remain active, i.e. still be in contact with the water > while yanking, and then skimmed back across the water for removal of the > float or left on to continue resting or let the adrenalin simmer down.>> > > Ralph, were you teaching those who capsized? The reason I asked is because > what you said about having the paddlefloat remain active as you pull it out > could be causing the problems you have seen. > > I think those who capsize when doing this have been doing the right thing > while using the paddlefloat (that is) leaning their weight more to the float > side. The catch comes when it is time to slip the paddle out from under the > deck lines. Then you must get the kayak back on an even keel and for a > second quit depending on the paddlefloat to stabilize the kayak. With no > weight holding the paddlefloat down it is easy to slip the paddle out from > under the deck lines with one quick arm motion and bring it in front of your > body in normal paddling position. The float may still be resting on the > water when you do this but no downward pressure should be applied to it at > that time. No I wasn't teaching...just saw two people go over at different time. I don't think I said that one should lean on the float when yanking it out of the deck bungee hold. Physical laws would make that a more difficult act than it already is...two opposing levers, in effect. No, I meant active in the way I stated, i.e. keep the paddle in contact with the water and when released, skim the float end across the water in case you suddenly feel tippy. Your point about getting the boat on an even keel is a good one, or even lean it in the opposite direction as you state. ralph -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Anyone have a suggestion for the "outrigger set up" for the Romany Explorer? The Romany's day hatch, on the starboard side just aft the cockpit, happens to be in the area where the outrigger, or paddle park would best be situated. Thanks, Robert Matt Broze <mkayaks_at_oz.net> wrote: > Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 17:32:32 -0800 > To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net> > Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Instability with a flooded cockpit (and more added) > > Done right you must balance for about one second while you remove the > paddle and get it into bracing position. If you don't outrigger the paddle > by fixing it to the kayak you will need to balance for several minutes while > also trying to operate the pump. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Matt Broze said: <huge snip> >>Nimbus Kayaks http://nimbuskayaks.com/ has a ready made setup using webbing straps and fastex buckles with a nifty way to quickly release them when you are ready to start paddling again. Their website doesn't show a close-up but you can see it best on the Telkwa Sport picture. Just four little holes in the deck are all you have to drill to set it up. I know they sell it separately from their kayaks because I liked it so much I have bought some from them to sell in our store.>> I order mine from Western Canoeing in Abbotsford, BC. The two straps are about $20.00 US. I get my friends and Paddlefloat course students to order them to retrofit on their unequipped kayaks. They are much better than the Seaward units, IMO. While the ACU an others teach the PF Rescue without deck rigging and others recommend it is best done with only deck rigging, I tend to think it is best to know and have the ability to do both, and the Reentry and Roll, if not other methods for reentry too. The Nimbus straps are good however, and are easily released during the difficult disconnect phase, that so many deride as the reason not to trust the deck-rig method. I covered most of this in my SK article on the fixed paddlefloat rescue. If anyone would like a copy for those who don't get SK Magazine, I'd be glad to send it to you if you e-mail me your postal address. I do this as a public service, not to promote my writing. I do _not_ claim to have all the answers, but I have put in a fair amount of research and rough water testing. Be safe, paddle smart, and as they say, do whatever it takes to keep the boat afloat! BC'in Ya Doug Lloyd *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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