Hey, if the subject line were electric bilge pumps, you would have hit the delete key already! But I do have a question, especially addressed to those electric pump users who have installed and use these widgets; this info may be of some value to others who are considering pump options, too. Having become somewhat disenchanted with the speed at which my stock Henderson foot pump emptied out my Pintail following a reentry and roll at a cold water demo a few weeks ago (three and a half minutes, seemed longer), I've been considering an electric pump as an option. Yesterday, I went beyond "considering" and bought a 12 volt, seven AH battery at the local Battery Warehouse (~$25), put the Pintail in the driveway during a sunny thaw in the local weather, flooded the boat to just above the base of the seat pan --- about the max water I can accumulate in the 'Tail following a reentry, stuck an Atwood 500 pump that I'd bought on a super-sale (~$12) as an experiment under the seat where it fit fine, ran a 3/4" hose overboard, hooked the sucker up and stood back, waiting to see the driveway flood out. Was singularly unimpressed with the results. It took about 11 minutes for the cockpit to empty out. The battery was fresh, the pump brand new, the water was "drinking quality" --- at least before getting into the boat ---, the exhaust hose unkinked, and the rest of the conditions were essentially "lab" level, other than the ambient temps just above freezing. I was expecting performance at least at the foot pump level, and was really surprised at the time it took to purge the boat. Any suggestions? Ideas? Would an 1100 vice a 500 rated pump be twice as fast? A five minute run is still not very competitive with the footpump. Any ideas why it took so long? (This is a highly "foamed" cockpit, and the Pintail is low volume to start with.) Or is this what I should have expected? Jack Martin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
The eleven-minute emptying time is certainly excessive, and a real surprise. Our Rule 500 pumps (same rating) empty our Romany cockpits in about 4 minutes. And that's with modified home plumbing-type check valves installed. Anybody have the same/different experience? If you're sure the pump inlet and hose connections were clear, then you might consider going back to the store and getting a replacement. Bob V -----Original Message----- From: JCMARTIN43_at_aol.com <JCMARTIN43_at_aol.com> To: PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net <PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net> >Having become somewhat disenchanted with the speed at which my stock Henderson foot pump emptied out my Pintail following a reentry and roll at a cold water demo a few weeks ago (three and a half minutes, seemed longer), I've been considering an electric pump as an option. Yesterday, I went beyond "considering" and bought a 12 volt, seven AH battery at the local Battery Warehouse (~$25), put the Pintail in the driveway during a sunny thaw in the local weather, flooded the boat to just above the base of the seat pan --- about the max water I can accumulate in the 'Tail following a reentry, stuck an Atwood 500 pump that I'd bought on a super-sale (~$12) as an experiment under the seat where it fit fine, ran a 3/4" hose overboard, hooked the sucker up and stood back, waiting to see the driveway flood out. > >Was singularly unimpressed with the results. It took about 11 minutes for the cockpit to empty out. The battery was fresh, the pump brand new, the water was "drinking quality" --- at least before getting into the boat ---, the exhaust hose unkinked, and the rest of the conditions were essentially "lab" level, other than the ambient temps just above freezing. I was expecting performance at least at the foot pump level, and was really surprised at the time it took to purge the boat. > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Bob Volin writes: "The eleven-minute emptying time is certainly excessive, and a real surprise. Our Rule 500 pumps (same rating) empty our Romany cockpits in about 4 minutes. And that's with modified home plumbing-type check valves installed. Anybody have the same/different experience?" Just this last weekend I timed pumpouts as follows: 1. Cockpit full, off water, no paddler in cockpit, using Rule 500 electric pump only, 3.5 min, emptied to the point at which the pump stopped sucking. 2. Cockpit full of water and paddler, after a re-entry on the water, using Rule 500 electric pump and foot pump, emptied to the same point when the electric pump stopped sucking, about 2 minutes. I don't have any check valves installed, just a stopper in the outlet to stop water coming back into the cockpit through the outlet. The stopper is not a tight fit, and gets pushed out onto its short tether string when pumping starts. A check valve would be an improvement. Does anyone have experience of higher capacity electric pumps? I have heard ideas that the Rule 500 is more reliable than the Rule 1100. I wonder if two Rule 500 pumps connected to two separate batteries and switches would be a solid system, despite the weight? When using the electric pump, as the water is pumped out a vacuum is created in the cockpit space causing the spray deck to suck down. I open a gap in the body tube of the spray skirt to relieve this and keep the pump going at full capacity. This wouldn't be possible if both hands are on the paddle working hard. Has anyone tried a small hole in the deck to get over this? The hole would be small enough to only let in a few drips, perhaps like the bulkhead holes described in other posts which relieve pressure variation in bulkhead compartments and stop rubber VCP hatches bulging. Regards,PT *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
-----Original Message----- From: Peter Treby <ptreby_at_ozemail.com.au> >Does anyone have experience of higher capacity electric pumps? I have heard >ideas that the Rule 500 is more reliable than the Rule 1100. Peter, this is copied from a post by Wes Boyd on Feb 4, 1999: I may be stepping on Philip Wylie's toes with this, but this is the content of an e-mail to him from Laurie Ford that was posted on the Baidarka list last year. (I saved it since it seemed like one of those key things you want to remember.) "As for electric pumps - in the last 20 years there is only one type that I would recommend, and I have tried out several others. The RULE 500 (usedto be 400) is the only one that never gives any trouble. Others have had he impeller disintegrate, or the housing develop leaks...." >I wonder if two >Rule 500 pumps connected to two separate batteries and switches would be a >solid system, despite the weight? They would probably be a solid system, but the weight of the batteries in an otherwise empty or near-empty kayak might begin to affect the trim of the boat, with resulting differences in weathercocking and such. In any case, I'm not sure that the 2-minute gain would amount to much advantage. After all, the hands-free activity of the pump allows the paddler to manage the boat defensively while it is emptying, and that's the main thing. >When using the electric pump, as the water is pumped out a vacuum is created >in the cockpit space causing the spray deck to suck down. I open a gap in >the body tube of the spray skirt to relieve this and keep the pump going at >full capacity. This wouldn't be possible if both hands are on the paddle >working hard. Has anyone tried a small hole in the deck to get over this? >The hole would be small enough to only let in a few drips, perhaps like the >bulkhead holes described in other posts which relieve pressure variation in >bulkhead compartments and stop rubber VCP hatches bulging. Has this been a serious problem for you? I'd imagine that a quick "burp", accomplished by partial lifting of an edge of the spray skirt for a second or so, would be sufficient to relieve the vacuum. In most instances, one wouldn't have a full cockpit and still have the spray skirt on. I guess the most likely scenarios for this would be after a re-entry and roll or any other kind of re-entry (assisted or otherwise) in surf, when the paddler would need to replace the spray skirt before pumping out. Bob V *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Bob posted: >...Laurie Ford ..."As for electric pumps - in the last 20 years there is only one type that I would recommend, and I have tried out several >others. The RULE 500 (used to be 400) is the only one that never gives any trouble. Others have had he impeller >disintegrate, or the housing develop leaks...." Thanks, I knew that the legendary Tasmanian had said this somewhere, it may also be on the Maatsuyker Canoe Club's website http://www.tassie.net.au/~lford/. This is worth a look. Plenty to say about pumps, sails, rudders and a good rave about paddling philosophy. >I wonder if twoRule 500 pumps connected to two separate batteries and switches would be a solid system, despite the weight? >They would probably be a solid system, but the weight of the batteries in an otherwise empty or near-empty kayak might begin to affect the trim of the boat, with resulting differences in weathercocking and such. In any case, I'm not sure that the 2-minute gain would amount to much advantage. After all, the hands-free activity of the pump allows the paddler to manage the boat defensively while it is emptying, and that's the main thing.> Quite right, one is enough, but if 4 AH batteries are used the weight might be bearable. At the moment I have a heavy 7 AH battery, too heavy in fact, overkill. As I usually carry too much even on a day trip, bivvy bag, excess water, etc., the mass of another Rule 500 and battery would hardly be noticed on one of my bad boat-stuffing days. My paddling partner was amazed yesterday when he suggested a stop and coffee on a sand bar, and I was unable to offer the stove and coffee making equipment! That won't happen again! The thought in having a second electric system was backup against failure, as well as double quick pumping. >When using the electric pump, as the water is pumped out a vacuum is created in the cockpit space causing the spray deck to suck down. I open a gap in the body tube of the spray skirt to relieve this and keep the pump going at full capacity. This wouldn't be possible if both hands are on the paddle working hard. Has anyone tried a small hole in the deck to get over this? The hole would be small enough to only let in a few drips, perhaps like the bulkhead holes described in other posts which relieve pressure variation in bulkhead compartments and stop rubber VCP hatches bulging.> | Has this been a serious problem for you? I'd imagine that a quick "burp", accomplished by partial lifting of an edge of the spray skirt for a second or so, would be sufficient to relieve the vacuum. In most instances, one wouldn't have a full cockpit and still have the spray skirt on. I guess the most likely scenarios for this would be after a re-entry and roll or any other kind of re-entry (assisted or otherwise) in surf, when the paddler would need to replace the spray skirt before pumping out.| Bob V Right again, it's not a serious problem, a burp of the spray skirt does fix it. The pump goes chugging on even with a vacuum to fight, as some air enters somewhere. But it would be good if that wasn't necessary. Last winter here, I had exactly the situation you refer to, a capsize, re-entry and roll in surf which had wiped me out into cold water, leaving me in an unstable flooded cockpit facing another pummelling and capsize. I've thought about the many lessons of that day ever since. They include: 1. A reliable roll is a necessity. 2. A good spray deck is also a necessity, and must be able to be fitted quickly, before the next breaker. 3. A pump system must be hands-free and quick. I haven't yet seen a system which will empty a cockpit to low stable levels in the time it takes for the next breaker to arrive, which would be ideal. Of course, the cockpit volume has to be minimised to help the pump along. Regards, PT. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Thanks to PT and Bob --- and for other posts off-list --- on this subject. It's pretty clear that, in a Pintail, I should have had similar results to PT's Romany, so, not to malign Atwood or my battery supplier, I'll try this again and post the results. I'd be happy with an under-four minute time in my low volume Pintail. To PT's point --- and Bob's question --- I've had similar experiences in having a partial vacuum slow down my pump-out with a foot pump. And I would definitely want to get my skirt on after a reentry and roll as soon as possible because the conditions which knocked me out of the boat would also probably result in a lot of water over my very low freeboard deck. Having said that, I always back off a half turn on a deckplate and sock that I have in my foredeck --- it's a four inch plate with a nylon storage sleeve that hangs down between my knees, serving as a glovebox --- to allow atmospheric compensation inside the cockpit. I'd do the same thing with an electric pump. Thanks for all the thoughts. Jack Martin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
You have all convinced me that an electric Rule 500 pump is the way to go to fit in the kayak I am currently building. I went to the website and found 5 options for this pump, the only viable options being 1.the pump itself 2. a new model with a lower profile 3. an mercury float switch or a 4. non mechanical computer switch. My preference is to keep it simple, so the internal switched ones are attractive, but I am sure there are some issues. Any thoughts? Where should I be looking for a battery and what is the minimal size? -- : : Gabriel L Romeu : http://studiofurniture.com furniture from the workshop : http://members.xoom.com/gabrielR life as a tourist, daily journal : http://users.aol.com/romeugp paintings, photographs, etchings, objects *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I have a Rule 1100 installed in my Storm. I use it with a 7 amp-hour (AH) battery. I have not used a stopwatch to time the draining of the boat, but it is safe to say the drain time after a wet exit and reentry is on the order of 2-3 minutes. In addition to using the 7 AH battery I have also tried using a 2 AH and a 1.2 AH battery, both are gel cells. Both worked with the 1100 pump. Sizing a battery is not just a question of does it have the voltage and enough amp-hour capacity to empty the boat. I'm not an electrical engineer but I have read that high discharge rates will reduce the actual AH capacity of a battery below the laboratory rating. This should not be a surprise to anyone, the laws of physics and the laws of advertising apply to batteries just like they do elsewhere. Perhaps one of our double E members can explain the issues for us. I do have some strident opinons on switches and their location. I had numerous failures with allegedly waterproof but unsealed switches. The switch that worked for me in the end was a single pole, double throw sealed switch. I mounted it on the rear deck with a 10 oz. plastic food container as a secondary containment to help keep the switch guts dry. The switch handle is protected with a wood block. I like the double throw switch because I set it up so hitting the switch off center turns on the pump. Other features of my electric pump system are the battery is located in the rear compartment, the pump discharge has a tethered rubber stopper not a check valve, and I installed a fuse in the circuit. Dana > -----Original Message----- > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:24:35 +1100 > From: "Peter Treby" <ptreby_at_ozemail.com.au> > Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Electrodynamic hydropurgation devices > > Bob Volin writes: > "The eleven-minute emptying time is certainly excessive, and a real > surprise. Our Rule 500 pumps (same rating) empty our Romany > cockpits in > about 4 minutes. And that's with modified home > plumbing-type check valves > installed. Anybody have the same/different experience?" > Just this last weekend I timed pumpouts as follows: > 1. Cockpit full, off water, no paddler in cockpit, using > Rule 500 electric > pump only, 3.5 min, emptied to the point at which the pump > stopped sucking. > 2. Cockpit full of water and paddler, after a re-entry on > the water, using > Rule 500 electric pump and foot pump, emptied to the same > point when the > electric pump stopped sucking, about 2 minutes. > I don't have any check valves installed, just a stopper in > the outlet to > stop water coming back into the cockpit through the outlet. > The stopper is > not a tight fit, and gets pushed out onto its short tether > string when > pumping starts. A check valve would be an improvement. > Does anyone have experience of higher capacity electric > pumps? I have heard > ideas that the Rule 500 is more reliable than the Rule 1100. > I wonder if two > Rule 500 pumps connected to two separate batteries and > switches would be a > solid system, despite the weight? > When using the electric pump, as the water is pumped out a > vacuum is created > in the cockpit space causing the spray deck to suck down. I > open a gap in > the body tube of the spray skirt to relieve this and keep > the pump going at > full capacity. This wouldn't be possible if both hands are > on the paddle > working hard. Has anyone tried a small hole in the deck to > get over this? > The hole would be small enough to only let in a few drips, > perhaps like the > bulkhead holes described in other posts which relieve > pressure variation in > bulkhead compartments and stop rubber VCP hatches bulging. > Regards,PT > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Apologies in advance. This reply began to write itself and got out of hand (I'm also going to be late for work). Hello, Gabriel... I'm using a BT4L-BS maintenance-free lead acid battery. It's designed for use in motorcycles, and can probably be most easily found at a motorcycle shop. You might also look for it on line, e.g., at http://batteriesplus.com/Product/champmtrcyc.html The specs are as follows: the battery puts out 12 volts, 3 amp-hours (should run for about 35 hours continuously before needing a recharge). It weighs 2.9 lbs.. The dimensions are 4-1/2 X 2-13/16 X 3-3/8 inches. You'll also need to buy an appropriate battery charger (not cheap). This is not the only battery solution, but its size and weight are acceptable and it supplies all the power I'll need for a week on the water (wish I could do that easily) and more. Now, if I could only find a waterproof boom box (just kidding!!!!!). Take a look at the description of how I installed Rule pump systems into my boat and my wife's, at http://www.paddlewise.net/topics/boatequip/elecpumps.html With Jackie's permission, I think I'll update that page when the current discussion runs itself out. There is one notable change to my description. Joan's switch recently failed. So I went out & bought a couple of military-spec waterproof toggle switches from West Marine. You can find it at http://www.westmarine.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prmenbr=201&prrf nbr=7654 (Note that with a long url like this one, you'll probably have to highlight it across however many lines it takes up in your email browser, then copy it, then open Netscape or IE, then paste it into the url box, and finally press return. If you already knew this, forgive -- it took me a while to figure out why I couldn't just click on these long urls in my email). Checking on the Rule pump options: The "Platinum" computer-controlled pump is probably not what you want, since it seems that it would cycle itself off for as much as ten minutes at a time. Here is one description I downloaded: "Once the power is supplied, the pump will turn on for about one second to sense for water. If water is detected, the pump will continue to run until all the water is removed. If water is not detected, the pump will turn off. It will then check for water every two minutes. If after five consecutive checks no water is detected, it's computer will change the cycling mode to every ten minutes. If and when water is detected during any of these checks, the pump will continue to run until all the water is removed. it will then revert back to the two minute cycle time. During these checks, the pump operates at reduced power and is very quiet. Only when it detects water will it power up to full capacity." Not great in surf! OTOH, you could add a switch to the system, and turn it OFF in surf. Then, when you turn it on, the pump would immediately empty your boat. You could save the internal switching for more routine paddling in relatively rough conditions that might introduce water into your boat over a period of time. The older automatic models cycle on and off repeatedly. Not sure of the cycling schedule, but it may be as above. I decided against them, thinking that on-demand pumping would suit me better. I didn't locate a low-profile pump, so I have nothing to offer on that one. As for the mercury float switch, it's relatively huge. We actually bought two of them, and then decided not to use them as we couldn't find a satisfactory place to put them inside the cockpit. -----Original Message----- From: Gabriel L Romeu <romeug_at_erols.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Electrodynamic hydropurgation devices >You have all convinced me that an electric Rule 500 pump is the way to >go to fit in the kayak I am currently building. I went to the website >and found 5 options for this pump, the only viable options being 1.the >pump itself 2. a new model with a lower profile 3. an mercury float >switch or a 4. non mechanical computer switch. My preference is to keep >it simple, so the internal switched ones are attractive, but I am sure >there are some issues. Any thoughts? > >Where should I be looking for a battery and what is the minimal size? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
The battery I have was purchased at an electrical / electronic chain store, Dick Smith Electronics, a similar outfit to Tandy Electronics. I suppose these exist in the US. The battery is a "Newmax" FNC 1270 , 12V 7AH sealed rechargeable battery made by Dong Ho Electric Co Ltd in Korea, so should be available worldwide. It measures 6"x3.5"x2.5". This type of battery is sold to run domestic security alarm systems. It is too big and heavy. The same type of battery is available in 2AH and 4 AH sizes. The 4AH is about 2/3rds the size of mine, and would be adequate. Probably the smallest one would be, too. In the first six months of use, I didn't have to recharge mine. I don't know how long it takes to discharge in actual use, but I suppose it would be prudent to recharge it before any big trip. I made up a marine ply box which is mounted behind the rear bulkhead, and the wires passed through at a high level just under the deck, into the cockpit. The hole is covered in sealant, and so far no leakage. A small waterproof toggle switch, purchased at the same electronic store is mounted on the deck just behind the cockpit, covered by a saddle to help accidental operation. Actually, accidental operation isn't too much of a problem, as the whirring of the pump is obvious. The instructions with the pump indicate wiring in a fuse, but I have not included this so as to avoid one more set of fail prone connections. Time will tell if that is a good idea. Gabriel L Romeu wrote: > You have all convinced me that an electric Rule 500 pump is the way to > go to fit in the kayak I am currently building. I went to the website > and found 5 options for this pump, the only viable options being 1.the > pump itself 2. a new model with a lower profile 3. an mercury float > switch or a 4. non mechanical computer switch. My preference is to keep > it simple, so the internal switched ones are attractive, but I am sure > there are some issues. Any thoughts? > > Where should I be looking for a battery and what is the minimal size? > -- > : : > Gabriel L Romeu : > http://studiofurniture.com furniture from the workshop : > http://members.xoom.com/gabrielR life as a tourist, daily > journal : > http://users.aol.com/romeugp paintings, photographs, etchings, objects *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Treby" > In the first six months of use, I didn't have to recharge mine. I don't > know how long it takes to discharge in actual use, but I suppose it would be > prudent to recharge it before any big trip. >From many years of experience in powering water level recorders and automatic raingauges with them, we discovered that a sealed lead acid battery is prone to loss of capacity if it is not fully discharged before recharging, as it develops a "memory" and will not go below it. Rather than just recharging, discharge it down to 10.8 volts, then recharge to 13.8 volts, preferably two or three times a year. If it will not discharge to 10.8 volts because of the memory effect, put it through several discharge/charge cycles and it may come right. If one day you have a really bad time out on the water, you might be glad of all the AHr available to you! Allan Singleton Hamilton NZ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> From many years of experience in powering water level recorders and > automatic raingauges with them, we discovered that a sealed lead acid > battery is prone to loss of capacity if it is not fully discharged before > recharging, as it develops a "memory" and will not go below it. This is contrary to my experience with lead acid batteries. Most notable is the one in my truck, which is subjected to repeated shallow discharging and then recharge. Also of note are the special "deep cycle" lead acid batteries for use on such things as trolling motors. These batteries are constructed to take the strain of repeated discharge to low levels and then recharging, while normal car/motorcycle batteries will have shorter lives if drained all the way down. For those buying the small motorcycle batteries for their kayak, you should also take the same care you would for storing a full size battery, such as not sitting it on a concrete floor for any length of time... Woody *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Woodard" > > recharging, as it develops a "memory" and will not go below it. > > This is contrary to my experience with lead acid batteries. Most notable is > the one in my truck, which is subjected to repeated shallow discharging and > then recharge. Also of note are the special "deep cycle" lead acid batteries > for use on such things as trolling motors. The sealed lead acid battery, or gel cell, is not the same thing as an automotive battery or deep cycle marine battery (or motorcycle battery for that matter). It really is sealed and leak proof, you can use it upside down or on end if you want to. As well as the brand previously mentioned, they are made by firms such as Yuasa and Panasonic. And yes, they really do develop a memory. Allan Singleton Hamilton NZ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Sealed batteries for motorcycles, lawn tractors, etc. don't develop a memory effect. They are rarely, if ever, fully discharged and go through the same discharge and recharge cycles that any non-sealed battery does in the same kind of application. Batteries that develop memory effects are intended to be fully discharged before being recharge and no vehicle application would ever be expected to be totally discharged before being recharged. Memory effect is typically associated with NiCad batteries. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Allan Singleton" <allan.singleton_at_voyager.co.nz> To: "Robert Woodard" <woodardr_at_tidalwave.net>; "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net> Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 9:19 PM Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Electrodynamic hydropurgation devices > > The sealed lead acid battery, or gel cell, is not the same thing as an > automotive battery or deep cycle marine battery (or motorcycle battery for > that matter). It really is sealed and leak proof, you can use it upside down > or on end if you want to. As well as the brand previously mentioned, they > are made by firms such as Yuasa and Panasonic. > > And yes, they really do develop a memory. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Allan, how would you suggest I discharge the battery without running the pump? How would I know what size/model of resistor to hook it to? (Y'see, I know how to make electrical connections, but I'm not too swift on theory....) Thanks, Bob V - *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
----- From: "Bob Volin" > Allan, how would you suggest I discharge the battery without running the > pump? How would I know what size/model of resistor to hook it to? (Y'see, > I know how to make electrical connections, but I'm not too swift on > theory....) If you can find a low voltage cut-out that can be set to cut out in the 10.8 to 11.0 volt region, then connect it to the battery in series with a 5 or 6 watt car tail light bulb. When the bulb goes out you know it is time to attach the charger. Simple if you can get a cut-out. Us deprived Australasians have these Dick Smith stores where you can buy a kitset and assemble it yourself. You more civilised people should be able to find one ready made. Happy hunting, Allan S *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>Allan, how would you suggest I discharge the battery without running the >pump? How would I know what size/model of resistor to hook it to? (Y'see, >I know how to make electrical connections, but I'm not too swift on >theory....) > Bob V I have to discharge camcorder batteries from time to time to get them to recharge properly. For that I use an automotive light bulb. I just soldered wires to the lamp terminals, and used alligator clips on them to connect to the battery. Find one for the voltage of the battery, and check to see what its current rating is. Pick one that will discharge the battery in an hour or so ( the AH spec on the battery will help you on that. if it's a 7 ampere-hour battery, then it should be discharged by a bulb requiring 2 amps in 3 1/2 hours). *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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