Yes, arrogance reigns and God protects drunkards and fools, as they say, but so does the West Chester, PA Emergency Squad. We had flooding from heavy rains here in the Delaware Valley around Philadelphia, some areas got a month's worth of rain in less than a day, I heard reported. As I was driving up to put in some time at the shop yesterday my mom called to ask if I'd seen the local news, this at 11:30 a.m., that two men were stuck in a tree in the Brandywine Creek in Pennsylvania, near Chadds Ford, if any of you know the Wyeth family of painters, (mis-reported as a river by the local newsheads in their inflammatory fervor) and because of power lines the chopper couldn't lift them out. I said,"Let me guess, they're in street clothes, right ?" "Right!" Well, the 11 p.m. news splashed the story, sure enough the fools were rescued, putting emergency crews in jeapordy pulling their soggy butts out of that tree. The creek was raging such that their red canoe, aluminum, I assume, was below them wrapped around the tree like tissue paper. I can't guess at the force in cubic feet per minute that put it there. The 12' rescue dinghy got into trouble once they got the second one aboard, the outboard stalled and wouldn't re-start, forcing them to rush to throw a line and secure themselves to the tree before they all went for a ride, which from what I saw on the clip they just barely did in time. Eventually they got it started and once back on land, the one of them, in olive drab, no PFD, pushed aside the reporter at a near-run to the ambulance (while saying he was alright and wasn't goin' to no hospital) as she asked him if he would be going out in a small boat again in water like this. His answer, as he sped past, grinning: "Sure ! Why not ?" If I were King, I'd have him thrown back in. How did those men who put themselves in harm's way feel when they heard that ? I think of them, I think of all the discussion and free advice, learning and cautionary tales that go through this forum and others. I think of Darwin, too... ~~Paul H. Burlington, N.J. __________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>Yes, arrogance reigns and God protects drunkards and fools, as they say, >but so does the West Chester, PA Emergency Squad. > the one of them, in olive drab, >no PFD, pushed aside the reporter at a near-run to the ambulance (while >saying he was alright and wasn't goin' to no hospital) as she asked him if >he would be going out in a small boat again in water like this. >His answer, as he sped past, grinning: "Sure ! Why not ?" > Which only underscores the victims' ignorance. I'm not sure just what that boat was but I don't think it was aluminum. May have been a Coleman. Picture wasn't that clear on the TV. And yes, they did not have a PFD on. I am more bothered by the following interview, with the Emergency Director for Delaware County. Sittling complacently behind his desk, saying that nobody has any business being on any river in a canoe or a kayak once the water rises. You're only asking for trouble. My concern is that, as has happened in other places, the antics of the uninformed paddlers will impinge on the responsible activities of the knowledgeable paddler. Especially when those access decisions will have been made by non-paddlers. It wasn't that long ago that the famous incident occurred involving Davy Hearn and the Maryland Rangers...... Joe P. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Joe Pylka wrote: > > >Yes, arrogance reigns and God protects drunkards and fools, as they say, > >but so does the West Chester, PA Emergency Squad. > > > Which only underscores the victims' ignorance. <snip> > I am more bothered by the following interview, with the Emergency > Director for Delaware County. Sittling complacently behind his desk, saying > that nobody has any business being on any river in a canoe or a kayak once > the water rises. You're only asking for trouble. > My concern is that, as has happened in other places, the antics of > the uninformed paddlers will impinge on the responsible activities of the > knowledgeable paddler. Especially when those access decisions will have > been made by non-paddlers. It wasn't that long ago that the famous incident > occurred involving Davy Hearn and the Maryland Rangers...... I am in agreement with both Paul and Joe. It's not just ignorance and arrogance. It's that in the eyes of the media and the public, they is us. I'd bet that the news reports talked about the rescue of "two canoeists" or "two paddlers," not "two lucky ignorant fools." However, to set the record straight, it was the Park Police, I believe, who arrested Davey, acting under the misinformed presumption that because the river flows past their park, they can dictate who paddles it. The Potomac is under the jurisdiction of Maryland DNR, and they had not issued any kind of closure order. AFAIK, nobody has the jurisdiction to close the ocean, thanks be. Steve *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Thu, Mar 23, 2000 at 02:46:34PM -0500, Joe Pylka wrote: > My concern is that, as has happened in other places, the antics of > the uninformed paddlers will impinge on the responsible activities of the > knowledgeable paddler. Especially when those access decisions will have > been made by non-paddlers. It wasn't that long ago that the famous incident > occurred involving Davy Hearn and the Maryland Rangers...... And I can feel it starting to happen here. In the aftermath of last week's mishap, I've fielded several comments/questions a day from my neighbors and others here in Chadd's Ford. (It probably doesn't help that my boats are red -- same as the OC involved in the incident. To my surprise, apparently folks can't distinguish their red OC from my red 4-meter whitewater slalom K-1.) Apparently the conclusion that has been drawn is that anyone venturing onto the river during conditions other than midsummer (~300 CFS, 80 degrees) is crazy. I'm wondering how long it will be until I get done with one of my workouts and meet the authorities du jour at the takeout. Could be worse -- my partner and I paddle a red *decked* slalom C-2, and the only reason we're not out there training is that she's recovering from shoulder surgery. ;-) ---Rsk Rich Kulawiec rsk_at_gsp.org *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>However, to set the record straight, it was the Park Police, I believe, >who arrested Davey, acting under the misinformed presumption that >because the river flows past their park, they can dictate who paddles >it. The Potomac is under the jurisdiction of Maryland DNR, and they had >not issued any kind of closure order. > You're right; it was the Park Police... I got to thinking that about 5 minutes after I'd posted... *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Thu, Mar 23, 2000 at 01:29:18PM -0500, Paul Hollerbach wrote: > Well, the 11 p.m. news splashed the story, sure enough the fools were > rescued, putting emergency crews in jeapordy pulling their soggy butts out > of that tree. The creek was raging such that their red canoe, aluminum, I > assume, was below them wrapped around the tree like tissue paper. I can't > guess at the force in cubic feet per minute that put it there. I live 1.2 miles from the place where this happened; I've trained on the Brandywine year-round for 8 years now. When I was headed down there yesterday -- NOT to paddle, just to eyeball it and be glad I wasn't out there -- this was apparently all going on, because Route 1 was blocked off .5 mile from the site. The gauge reading -- and coincidentally, it's located less than 150 yards from where these two wrapped their canoe -- was 11,000 CFS. See http://wwwpah2o.er.usgs.gov/rt-cgi/gen_stn_pg?station=01481000 where you can still see the spike from yesterday -- note that the scale is logarithmic. For comparison, normal flow this time of year fluctuates between 300 and 700 CFS, with spikes up to a few thousand CFS following day-long rain events. (This particular event dumped 5 inches in < 24 hours, which is why the spike was much larger.) Local rescue types apparently really like choppers -- 5 years ago there was a similar incident on Perkiomen Creek, 40 minutes north, and they brought one in from Cape May. It was all a very dramatic rescue -- highly dangerous -- but it would have been much simpler if they'd just used a throw rope with a backup chase boater. Yesterday was a different -- these two were treed in a wooded area on the river left bank, and it would *not* be a good place to be with a rope or in a boat -- too much chance of entanglement or of becoming victim #3. So in the case, I agree with their call to use the motor launch -- I think the motor stalling was just a bad break. I can't believe these guys were out there. I probably know the river from around Lenape to Wilmington as well as anyone after all these years, and even I was really intimidated by the power it was showing yesterday. [And unlike them, I have *never* gone out there without a PFD and a helmet.] I can't begin to understand the hubris that led them to believe they could handle it. ---Rsk Rich Kulawiec rsk_at_gsp.org *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Joe, That is disturbing, I didn't see the statement you alluded to. The question is, who makes these access decisions and does the director have their ear when they are made ? I agree with you, if only there were some way to counter it in public, make a positive statement, give a positive impression, but of course that's not the kind of thing the media covers. I remember seeing the D. Hearn video and being so angry and frustrated I could scream, the ignorance and arrogance displayed were only eclipsed by the stupidity as they saought to arrest him to save him. Did anybody learn from that one ? ~~Paul H. __________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>That is disturbing, I didn't see the statement you alluded to. The question >is, who makes these access decisions and does the director have their ear >when they are made ? In Delaware County, who knows? I have concerns about a general attitude forming.... I assume you are aware of the Tohickon problems. This is similar in a way in that some officials have used "safety of paddlers" as an excuse for cancelling a release last Fall, and again this Spring. It is fairly evident that none of these individuals involved had an appreciation of the degree of risk that can be assumed by an experienced paddler, let alone that the responsible paddler is fully aware of those risks and knows how to deal with or, failing that, when to stop. > I agree with you, if only there were some way to >counter it in public, make a positive statement, give a positive >impression, but of course that's not the kind of thing the media covers. Unfortunately true. It is a sensational, very visual, event to put on the air. Any downplaying or saying something that might prevent tragedies in the future tend to be ignored. --But I think that is a case of invincible ignorance. I believe that neither the news media nor the powers that be in Harrisburg know any paddlers or how to get in touch with any group representing them. Further, they don't know that they don't know. Somehow I think paddlers as a demographic group needs to be recognized. Perhaps the Tohickon debacle could help. It seems to have spurred Harrisburg to do some media spinning this time around, so I think they may now have some awareness. JP > >I remember seeing the D. Hearn video and being so angry and frustrated I >could scream, the ignorance and arrogance displayed were only eclipsed by >the stupidity as they saought to arrest him to save him. Did anybody learn >from that one ? > >~Paul H. >__________________________________________ >NetZero - Defenders of the Free World >Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at >http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Rich Kulawiec wrote: > > On Thu, Mar 23, 2000 at 02:46:34PM -0500, Joe Pylka wrote: > > My concern is that, as has happened in other places, the antics of > > the uninformed paddlers will impinge on the responsible activities of the > > knowledgeable paddler. Especially when those access decisions will have > > been made by non-paddlers. > > And I can feel it starting to happen here. In the aftermath of > last week's mishap, I've fielded several comments/questions a day > from my neighbors and others here in Chadd's Ford. [snip] > > Apparently the conclusion that has been drawn is that anyone venturing > onto the river during conditions other than midsummer (~300 CFS, 80 > degrees) is crazy. I'm wondering how long it will be until I get > done with one of my workouts and meet the authorities du jour at > the takeout. And here, also. Some may recall I posted a description of an "incident" on my home waters: the two sea kayakers who got lost on an easy day trip and abandoned their kayak, and then attempted to "walk" across a swamp-island, to be plucked from their plight by the CG helo as night fell a day later. When I launched last week from the marina closest to their mishap, the harbormaster quized my paddling partner about our preparedness. The conversation went something like this: HM: How 'bout those sea kayakers who got rescued! Do you have a cell phone? PP: No, we have a VHF. HM: Oh, that's good -- I monitor 16, 9, and 13. PP: Yeah, we monitor those, also. PP: Oh, **you sound really prepared for sea kayakers.** I was not there with George when this went down, or the part emphasized would have sent me through the roof. Unfortunately, we will be identified in the minds of the public with folks who screw up. There was last summer an op-ed piece in the local newspaper describing sea kayaking as "dangerous," in the same vein as rock climbing! Several paddlers wrote rebuttals in the form of "Letters to the Editor," but of course they did not have the visibility of the original guest editorial. What really gripes me is that on local waters, noncommercial power boaters screw up regularly, with roughly an incident a week requiring CG assistance during the summer months. But this is regarded as "normal." There ain't no justice! -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Dave Kruger wrote: Excuse my error. It was the Harbormaster who said the following, not my Paddling Partner: > HM: Oh, **you sound really prepared for sea kayakers.** > I was not there with George when this went down, or the part emphasized would > have sent me through the roof. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:33:11 PDT