Melissa said: >>Add my apologies to Kasia to this list. And Jackie, I agree with you - -more women [being naturally the superior paddling gender], should speak often and freely here (eek! <Melissa dons her stylishly cut, nicely colored flame-proof wetsuit> ;-)>> Melissa touches on a subject that I've been doing a lot of thinking about lately: The differences (or lack of differences) between male and female paddlers. I realize Melissa's comment above about female superiority is in jest (okay, maybe it isn't :-)), but it does provide a springboard for me to dive into "the battle of the sexes" issue, as it pertains to paddling. My beef is that I don't think it makes a whole lot of difference what sex you are in terms of one's enjoyment and practice of kayaking. I get damn tired on trips from men complain about some gal who they say is a "bit_at_#", and on the very next day, the guy is acting like a jerk - or worse. It seems obvious to me that we all have our personality problems regardless of gender, and our bad days and poor judgment (often out of character as seen on PW recently).. The next thing that gets my goat (or is that a doe?), is the barrage of criticism men always seem to be getting, because women think that men's paddling behavior is macho. Yes, I've seen some of these guys doing their best to make the male species look bad on a mixed trip, but more often than not, it is individual personality problems again. Men who leave their gal-pals behind in rough weather, men who challenge nature, performing awesome paddling feats and then lording it over women folk, are all cads - who just happen to be men. I guess if I can make any observation from experience over the years, is that yes, there is more of a tendency toward certain behavior patterns, and more of a predisposition toward certain characteristics from certain sexes, but there will always be a sense in which you will find a definite, even if small, percentage of the opposite sex you are criticizing -- doing the same thing or committing the same actions. There is way too much generalization in gender paddling politics. I've seen women on trips eyeing up the guys, looking real close at their cute butts, forming little jealousies. I've seen women practice very unsafe, daring paddling tactics, etc., etc. Men get accused of always wanting to go, go, go. I've been on trips where the men, if they hit a sunny day or two, would rest and relax and not forge ahead. It depends on the individuals, know what I mean? Now maybe I'm going to generalize, gulp! I've just finished reading Sea Kayaker's account and Wavelength's account of the all women La Nina expedition that paddled the entire outside coast of BC. I completely did a double-take, and rethought my views on the entire subject. I was impressed by some differences that were very apparent with the all women group. The women seemed to have much better communication regarding safety and decision making. There was no leader on the trip. All decisions were relegated to the weakest member - the lowest common denominator. If anyone did not feel up to the conditions, if anyone wanted to turn back and it was navigationally possible, that is what the team did. They also seemed to have - and this is perhaps really subjective - way more fun than a bunch of guys do on a trip, or one with even a mixed group. I noticed Sea Kayaker Magazine has a nascent "psychology" section, that my friend, Doug Alderson f-i-n-a-l-l-y got his article into about rolling and visualization/positive thinking reinforcement. Perhaps SK will delve into this issue of group dynamics, decision making - with respect to some of these gender differences. Well, just a thought, if anyone is listening in publication land. Call me schizophrenic or hypocritical, but maybe there are some differences. I know the battle will never be over, but at least all us "real" women and men sea kayakers have a wonderful common denominator - our love for the sport and the sea. Melissa has been an inspiration to me from her other posts, and whoever gets to paddle with her is a lucky human indeed. And don't you dare sign off the list Kasia (please), the rest of us inferior species need your input and perspective. Respectfully, BC'in Ya Doug Lloyd *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Doug Lloyd raises the provocative and irresolvable question of differences between paddlers of different genders. Having worked for a female owned and dominated company after working for a very male-oriented organization, I can say that there were MAJOR differences. But darned if I can tell you exactly what they were! As Doug points out, individual personalities create so many exceptions that generalizations have almost no predictive value. Like Doug, I ruminated on the La Nina expedition article -- especially the common-sense policy of deferring to the least competent or least courageous (least foolhardy?) paddler. That should be the first commandment for every sea kayaker paddling in a group. On a related topic, whether you are man, woman, or hermaphrodite, rising weather is no time to leave less powerful or competent paddlers behind. More often than not, I have seen strong paddlers get a rush of adrenalin when the weather worsens and flail off into the distance. The psychological release from "beating nature" may be heady, but IMO, the heavier the weather, the more someone might need your help. These and similar thoughts have been plaguing me ever since I learned of the deaths of Chris and Erik Shuman. Last summer, I spent six days paddling with them at Isle Royale -- the three of us split from a larger group and did the east end of the island from Rock Harbor up through the Five-Fingers area to McCargoe Cove and back. You get to know, respect, depend on, and, yes, love people when you live and share with them like that. I still see them picking blueberries on an "Alpine" ridge of Amygdaloid Island -- a magical spot from which we could see the Lake stretching away to the horizon. Their tragedy is devastating, and I still cry for them at the most unlikely times. Their deaths have also left me fearful of making a trip on Lake Superior later this summer. I cannot stop thinking about all the things that could go wrong -- how a wet exit could be thwarted by a tangled paddle leash, how a wet suit might not provide enough protection in the cold water, what I would do if such things happened to someone else, etc. etc. etc. If I manage to retrieve enough nerve to go, I'll be panic stricken if I see stronger paddlers leaving weaker ones behind or urging them to paddle in conditions of which they are afraid. If that happens, I think that, for once, I'll speak my mind. BTW, all I know about the Schumans already has been published on this list. If anyone has any more information whatever about them, would you be so kind as to send it to me off list. Rick Doug wrote: > I've just finished reading Sea > Kayaker's account and Wavelength's account of the all women La Nina > expedition that paddled the entire outside coast of BC. I completely did > a double-take, and rethought my views on the entire subject. I was > impressed by some differences that were very apparent with the all women > group. The women seemed to have much better communication regarding > safety and decision making. There was no leader on the trip. All > decisions were relegated to the weakest member - the lowest common > denominator. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Richard Kemmer wrote: [snip] > Like Doug, I ruminated on the La Nina expedition article -- especially the > common-sense policy of deferring to the least competent or least courageous > (least foolhardy?) paddler. That should be the first commandment for every > sea kayaker paddling in a group. [snip] Nice post, Rick. I was moved by your comments about the Shumans. I haven't had time to read the La Nina article yet, but the idea of being guided by the "weakest" member of the group strikes me as so fundamentally right, I very much like your comment that is should be the basis for all paddling groups. I've felt hampered by slower paddlers and wanted to move on (not that I'm a great paddler, mind you!). I'm going to strive to avoid that impulse. It should be an incentive to two things, perhaps: (1) choose your paddling partners according to the type of paddling you want to do, and if it turns out that you made a mistake (*you* made the mistake), adjust your expectations to the paddlers you are with (love the one you're with <g>); and (2) if there are people in your group who can't keep up, want to go back, etc. -- remember: there is a reason to be out there, and it is not necessarily always to be *paddling* -- it's to enjoy the spot on the planet that you happen to occupy at that moment: slow down and smell the roses. Thanks for a nice post. I enjoyed it. Mark *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
t 12:55 PM 7/13/00 -0400, you wrote: >Richard Kemmer wrote: > >[snip] >> Like Doug, I ruminated on the La Nina expedition article -- especially the >> common-sense policy of deferring to the least competent or least >courageous >> (least foolhardy?) paddler. That should be the first commandment for >every >> sea kayaker paddling in a group. >[snip] > >Nice post, Rick. I was moved by your comments about the Shumans. I haven't >had time to read the La Nina article yet, but the idea of being guided by >the "weakest" member of the group strikes me as so fundamentally right, I >very much like your comment that is should be the basis for all paddling Right on. I've paddled with groups that will go off and leave a slower paddler. Needless to say, I don't paddle with them any more. Not only is it discourteous, it's downright unsafe. If people are paddling in a group to have the benefits of the safety of a group, and don't get it, then they're better off planning to paddle alone, and adjusting their risk level appropriately. -- Wes *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Wes Boyd wrote: > > >Nice post, Rick. I was moved by your comments about the Shumans. I haven't > >had time to read the La Nina article yet, but the idea of being guided by > >the "weakest" member of the group strikes me as so fundamentally right, I > >very much like your comment that is should be the basis for all paddling > > Right on. I've paddled with groups that will go off and leave a slower > paddler. Needless to say, I don't paddle with them any more. Not only is > it discourteous, it's downright unsafe. If people are paddling in a group > to have the benefits of the safety of a group, and don't get it, then > they're better off planning to paddle alone, and adjusting their risk level > appropriately. Quite a few paddlers treat a group paddle as a group put-in. Everyone starts off at about the same time but then some race off. Obviously some spreading out is okay if off on the side of a bay or river and conditions are calm. But if spread out an effort must be made to at least stay in some pods in which experienced/skilled paddlers are with less experienced ones for emergencies. However when it comes to crossings of traffic lanes or paddling into windier areas beyond headlands, or other situations where worse conditions are anticipated, then the group needs to pull together. The latter is common sense but I was once on a group paddle, a commercial one, in which the leaders were so rah-rah and intent on moving fast that the group got quite spread out during a crossing. Rather than wait for everyone to catch up and cross as one large pod, the leaders raced off. They were fast, athletic types. Unfortunately, others with less skill/strength attempted to catch up and followed leaving kayaks strung out like shooting gallery ducks. I was in the last quarter of paddlers (we had stopped to look at an historically significant structure a few minutes before). A large cruise ship was heading out to sea. With the line of "ducks" arrayed across his bow, it had no where to go and actually stopped dead. We saw the middle paddlers right in the ship's path. Instead of proceeding we turned 180 degrees paddling away to show the skipper we had no intention of following our foolish companions into his path. (If we had just stopped it may not have made our intention as clear as doing the 180.) I have never before seen a cruise ship forced to stop. Even though I had no part in the action that caused it, i.e. the lack of the group leaders attention to waiting for all to cross together, I was scarlet-embarrassed. ralph diaz -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
ralph diaz wrote: > Quite a few paddlers treat a group paddle as a group put-in. Everyone > starts off at about the same time but then some race off. Obviously > some spreading out is okay if off on the side of a bay or river and > conditions are calm. But if spread out an effort must be made to at > least stay in some pods in which experienced/skilled paddlers are with > less experienced ones for emergencies. > > However when it comes to crossings of traffic lanes or paddling into > windier areas beyond headlands, or other situations where worse > conditions are anticipated, then the group needs to pull together. Very true. I paddle with one group that is very anti-everything to do with authority, and one particular year, they were well known to the Coast Guard for needing to be fished out of the water. No leader of note, no plan, no group cohesiveness. They started to get the reputation for being paddling cowboys. Fortunately, this is changing. I recall one particular paddle where we were crossing a major shipping lane, and several members of the group (A woman, for the record, was leading this small band) broke away, and headed straight into traffic, and nearly got run down by a ferry, because nobody thought to look. Conversely, on the same paddle, another paddler lagged at least a mile and a half behind the group, and got angry if anyone waited for her (And she's a strong paddler, but she does this all the time). The majority of the paddlers, who stayed together, could have had their day spoiled by these antics. Gender, in my view is irrelevant, based on this and similar experiences. What is paramount is group cohesiveness. I thoroughly agree that a group should base it's decisions on the weakest link in the chain (And I practice this philosophy as well), but when you run across someone who exhibits the passive-agressive tendency to call attention to themselves by deliberately lollygagging, the group has to draw the line, the same as they should if someone bolts ahead --- they're no longer with the group; they're paddling solo. I announce this before launching whenever I lead a paddle -- if you don't stay with the group, you're no longer a part of it. (Of course, if I lead a novice paddle, that requires a whole different apporach) If you want to paddle at a snail's pace, or at warp speed, why paddle with a group at all? I'm a relatively fast paddler, and when I want to just burn, or conversely to poke around, I go solo, or only with paddlers of a similar mindset. It's simple courtesy (I know, I know, this makes me "weird"). The group in the La Nina expedition would not have faced this in any event -- they were a small, hand-picked group. Not a club paddle open to just anyone who decides to show. Huge difference. Most small exploratory or expedition style paddles I've been on were like this, and they always run smoothly, because the plan is pre-set, and we've all agreed to abide by it, or change it democratically. And we've always picked paddlers who could not only do the paddle as planned, but would agree with the approach, and had personalities that complemented, not hindered, the group dymanic. You don't need a leader so much as you need a plan that everyone sticks to, and people of good character paddling with you. Enough of my rambling for now....... *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hey folks, Depending entirely upon the situation, sometimes my approach to slower paddlers is to teach them how to paddle faster. Often the slow speed is a sign of poor technique and the paddler may become an increasing liability as the trip wears on (depends a lot on the nature of the trip). The slow paddler will wear out faster, becoming even slower. I have found that two things can really slow somebody down: 1. Poor upper body rotation and over-reliance on their arms 2. Feeling of instability from not understanding how to use edging for active stability (a problem when there is any kind of chop or waves) To teach #1, I make the paddler lock their arms straight and then rotate their body vigourously side to side while the paddle is IN THE AIR. Then have that person start to dip the blades in the water progressively more and more. Tell them to remember how the rotation feels, and gradually allow them to bend their arms during the stroke. Teaching #2 is a bit harder, but is essential because it allows people to paddle at fast cruising speeds no matter what the swell, wind waves, or wave direction. For starters, the paddler needs to be well-secured in their boat -- good hip bracing, thigh bracing, and secure foot pedals. Sliding rudder pedals are a distinct liability for achieving good stability. Then the paddler needs to practice locking their lower body into the boat, and actively hold it flat (or on edge if practicing edging). This is what I do in the river in every major rapid, but it works great in the sea especially in beam seas. This is tiring at first, but if the outfitting is good, it will become second nature after a short while. Kevin Whilden (also part-time instructor at the Kayak Academy: http://www.halcyon.com/kayak) Kevin Whilden Your Planet Earth http://www.yourplanetearth.org (206) 788-0281 (ph) (206) 788-0284 (f) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>Often the slow speed is a >sign of poor technique and the paddler may become an increasing liability >as the trip wears on (depends a lot on the nature of the trip). The slow >paddler will wear out faster, becoming even slower. > I've crosspoasted this to PaddleWise and WSK lists as I feel it may be of benefit to users of both lists (and I want to encourage my fellow WSK people to join the PaddleWise list, too.) >I have found that two things can really slow somebody down: >1. Poor upper body rotation and over-reliance on their arms After reading this I'm moved to see if I can remember what I was taught last Sunday at a forward stoke clinic by Brent Reitz. Basically the stroke was boiled down to 5 parts. One was getting the power by torso rotation, as mentioned here. This is the first thing he had us work on. 2nd part had the sobriquet of "chicken wing". It consisted of raising the elbow of the "pushing" arm, at the start of the stroke, so the 'pushing' arm was horizontal with a bent elbow as in a 'chicken wing'. 3rd was the "catch" or "insertion" of the blade, spearing the blade into the water using the upper arm, blade as far forward as possible, without leaning the torso forward. The latter causes the boat to move around as your body center of gravity oscillates back and forth. The heavier you are the more effect this has. 4 was pushing with a _bent_ elbow and allowing the pushing hand to cross over the center line, _not_ punching the arm out straight. 5 was "exit", getting the blade out of the water quickly. The stroking/ pulling hand reaches a point next to the hip and at this point the blade is quickly sliced up out of the water. If the stroke continues too long towards the rear the blade starts lifting water instead of pushing backwards. This effect was very noticeable in one of the guys taking the class in a long narrow Looksha which wobbled from side to side quite noticeably until he shortened the end of his stroke and sliced the blade out instead of lifting water.. The class worked on the first 3 parts and then lunched while watching videos of us. Then back in the water for the last 2 parts and an attempt to integrate in a short race, and then a second session of critique on the video. It was very easy to see what everyone, but especially one's self, was doing wrong when seeing it on video. Sometimes you are thinking real hard but not _doing it_ at all. It was interesting to contrast the first video with the second. You could see improvement in everyone. In the beginning most of us had very little torso rotation and everyone was much better at the end. I am noticeably faster than before the class, with the same, or less, perceived effort. Having taught quite a lot, in a different area of physical arts, I would comment that besides being a _fast_ kayaker, Brent is a good, patient, sharp eyed teacher. If you ever get a chance to work with him, I reccomend taking it. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Flory, San Jose, CA. daflory_at_pacbell.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Speak softly and study Aikido, then you won't need a big stick. ©2000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I just needed to voice my strongest agreement with Mark's very insightful post. Jed In a message dated 7/13/00 5:10:11 PM, sailboatrestorations_at_worldnet.att.net writes: << I've felt hampered by slower paddlers and wanted to move on (not that I'm a great paddler, mind you!). I'm going to strive to avoid that impulse. It should be an incentive to two things, perhaps: (1) choose your paddling partners according to the type of paddling you want to do, and if it turns out that you made a mistake (*you* made the mistake), adjust your expectations to the paddlers you are with (love the one you're with <g>); and (2) if there are people in your group who can't keep up, want to go back, etc. -- remember: there is a reason to be out there, and it is not necessarily always to be *paddling* -- it's to enjoy the spot on the planet that you happen to occupy at that moment: slow down and smell the roses.>> *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>From: "Sailboat Restorations, Inc." Richard Kemmer wrote: > >[snip] > > Like Doug, I ruminated on the La Nina expedition article -- especially >the > > common-sense policy of deferring to the least competent or least >courageous > > (least foolhardy?) paddler. That should be the first commandment for >every > > sea kayaker paddling in a group. >[snip] > >Nice post, Rick. I was moved by your comments about the Shumans. I >haven't >had time to read the La Nina article yet, but the idea of being guided by >the "weakest" member of the group strikes me as so fundamentally right, I >very much like your comment that is should be the basis for all paddling >groups. SNIP >Mark In SCUBA diving at night, in wrecks, or in caves, the rule is that any team member (cave diving requires a minimum of three) can call off any dive at any time for any reason, even just "I've got a bad feeling about this". If the other members of the team are behaving as they should, they will not require the "caller" to justify the decision to abort. Philip Torrens N49°16' W123°06' *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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