Rob, you said >>Doug LLoyd wrote: >Needless to say, if you have an aversion to dramatic sea stories, don't come over to my wife's parents place for Sunday dinner when my father-in-law's brothers and I are around!>>> >What's for dinner? Sounds like a fun and informative time. I have learned all sorts of "what not to do"'s from your posts, and a lot of "What to do if"'s. Keep on posting your "horror" stories.< Yeah, dinners are great, but Birthdays are a sham. Last year they gave me a toy Coast Guard vessel, complete with zodiac rescue boat and "man overboard" figurine. Very funny people, those relatives are! The Birthday card was even worse. As far as "horror" stories (or as Kevin Whilden calls them "my unlimited storehouse of adventure stories" - or some such thing), I do have lots more. Most will never "BCeen" :-). I will share some of the more publicly digestible ones as I see fit and feel the integrity of the list is maintained. I don't consider them "horror" stories -- at least not in the sense of sensationalized sea drama. They are very real events that have transpired over the many years of exhaustive experience with rough water. I wince at the notion that anyone would think I post stuff to gain notoriety. I predicate my life on helping others and offering illumination of my errors out of a pedagogical predisposition.( I posted something to another list a month or two ago, one I "lurk" on, mentioning to folks to be careful about late Spring/early Summer paddling -- as that is a time when kayakers are likely to get into trouble and even die. I felt like a friggin fool, but posted anyway.) Well, between the twin self-assertions of mine above, I'd like to add that I do suffer a problem with the sublimation of impulses, which can get one into trouble from time to time -- both with respect to why I get into trouble in the first place at sea; and secondly, why I sometimes post a personal or group incident on the spur of a moment. Well, I better get outta here before Kevin notices me defending myself again <g>. (Glad he's back on the list - whish he'd do more articles for SK Magazine). At least I can offer my experience -- perhaps without the expertise of guys like Matt -- but, at least I don't usually prattle on about anarchistic ideas of world-negation and negativistic paddle eschatology. One thing I will leave you with: It is far easier to get into trouble, than it is to get out of it! Oh God, how I know that. Paddle safely friend. BC'in Ya Doug Lloyd *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Paul said: >>The negotiability of a wave depends in part on its height and period. Goliath rollers spaced far apart without breaking crests are more manageable than steep confused seas in a gale. Of the big sea stories that saltier members are recalling, how long would an expert kayaker survive in such conditions? If only I could make my kayak and body survive diving under the 100' wave like some super duck.>> Paul, et al: Various vessels handle differently in big seas, as do sea kayaks. My post is split into two parts: Part One My uncle-by-marriage spent many years working on the world famous ocean-going tugs, the Sudbury and Sudbury II. These BC-based salvage tugs received world-wide attention for their deep-sea rescues and spectacular salvage operations/deep sea tows. (He was under 18 years of age, but fibbed his way aboard). Some of the difficulties faced and realities experienced in truly mountainous seas are worth pondering, as are some of the thoughts of these guys (if I can paraphrase second hand!? :-) <g>). -The ocean is a dangerous and very unforgiving place. It is never "safe". -You are either a pro or an amateur out there. -Size matters, where dimensions are diminutive in relationship to those of the waves in anything but coastal waters. -Small vessels like the 1st Sudbury bury their noses (204 feet); a short forecastle allowed the ocean to roll right over the front deck. -The round-bottom design caused this Flower-class corvette to roll fearsomely. -The men wore oilskins in the lower engine room, as so much water came down the ventilators and skylights -During an Atlantic gale, they confronted every wave as a "challenge" until one wave finally swept away the bridge's port wing. They slowed down. -This converted corvette was built light, for speed, but wasn't very tough. -When bucking huge seas during fierce electrical storms and lightning strikes, the men were ordered not to touch any metal (what else do you grab on to?). -Gigantic mountains of water would crash down from the side, smashing the lashed down gangplanks on deck. -They used to draw straws as to who would go out to close the ventilator shaft cover. My uncle n' law "won" once, and remembers hanging sideways off the shaft like "a flag on a flag pole" as the ship rolled in huge seas -- just like in the movies. -He says in really windy conditions in mountainous seas over fifty feet, the tops of the waves get blown off, but just when the wind subsides, the remaining groundswell easily obliterated their huge "in ballast" (read high out of water) tows such that you couldn't even see an eighty foot high vessel being towed. -He also says in 80-foot waves, the prop came out of the water all the time. If it was left to spin freely, something would break if it suddenly hit the water again. He had to spend hours and whole two day periods timing the shut-off control to coincide with pilot demands. Their lives depended upon his timing. -They had to turn away from huge seas a few times, and there was always a moment when the ship would roll heavily sideways, shudder, then merciful come back up. Sometimes it was real close. -Both the still and the movie pictures of some of the salvage operations still evoke terror and dread, illustrating in captured moments the true meaning of the equivicable "heavy seas" expression. -Taking a tow from the Aleutians to Japan once, they encountered long, ominous swell. Then the barometer fell deeply. A typhoon warning was up. They tried to steer clear, but it changed direction suddenly. The hurricane hit in seconds, appearing out of the sunny sky, churning the sea white in an instant. Nothing like coastal waters. It went totally pitch black. Wind ripped away at the port side for three hours. Then flat calm. Moments later, bang, wild seas and wind from the other side, and pitch black again. "A complete circle", he said. just like the movies. -The Sunbury II was 214 feet, flared bow, and afterdeck that occupied a1/3 of her length -- and built heavy and tough for deep sea work. -She'd climb up over huge seas, shuddering and straining for all she was worth, but never took on a drop of water with her big flared bow. -They hit a huge typhoon in mid-Pacific. They tried running before the weather in a right hand semi-circle and a hove-to left hand semi-circle. Swelll was phenomenal with violent squalls. Wind increased. Towering seas caused the vessel to groan and creak. The men prayed on their knees. You couldn't actually see the sea - too much water borne into the air by the wind. It lasted three days plus. -Being a shallow draft vessel, it kept clearing its own suction. This required 24-hour engine repairs as one engine after another would shut down and restart after they fought hard to decontaminat the fuel filters. It was exhausting. The Cooper-Bessemers kept sucking air instead of cooling water, and sirens wailed continuously. -Once, in the dead of wintertime, a 100-mile-an-hour Southeaster near Destruction Island (Alaska) caused seas that sent the tug's bow plunging underwater finally, heaving cupped water right over the wheel house at it reasserted bouancy. One of the waves finally broke a front window, sending a large shard of glass into the quartermaster's arm, the rest of the jagged glass embedding in the wheelhouses bulkhead. -They once had to rescue the "Offshore 55', an oil rig in extreme danger that was drifting in a huge hurricane (Hurricane Hattie). Force 12 plus winds stripped paint from parts of the tug's hull and superstructure. The mast and crosstree were scrubbed clean to bare metal while they chased the rig for 500 miles. Well, enough of that. You get the picture. Part Two -Kayaks are a coastal craft. In deep water, they can do well, but you don't want to be in the exact spot where those big swells we love to surf at the beach are actually forming way out at sea. -I've paddled big seas in my twenties off the exposed, remote coast of Vancouver Island in winter. Big swell with no wind is awesome, scary at first, but no problem if you can get to a landing spot later when you need to. -Add a 4- to 7-foot rough sea on top of a big swell (20 feet), and you will may start having to fight for your life. -Big seas pose a navigational problem, especially in a narrow kayak where it can be difficult to see the shore or find landmarks. -Small seas can be worse than "big" seas at times. If you have paddled spots like around shallow Rose Spit on the Queen Charlottes on a bad day with a weather tide, even the fisherman crap their pants. -I've got a couple of videos from Environment Canada, that were produced to specifically address the needs of commercial fisherman and small boats on our BC coast with respect to marine hazards. (I do a lecture and media presentation for our club once and awhile on marine hazards). It doesn't take much to encounter a non-negotiable freak wave. The eye witness accounts and interviews with the fisherman who survived are very telling of the sudden, awesome destruction the sea can impose. Most of it was related to wave damage. most waves wern't enormous, just steep and moving fast. -I caught the beginning of a hurricane (we call it a storm with hurricane force winds around here) off the west coast of the island in the early eighties. A fisheries vessel intercepted me and tried to dissuade me from leaving Port San Juan, as five fish boats had just gone down off North Brooks. Young and foolish, but with an exquisite sense of timing and knack for just getting off the water in time, I made it. (It is posted permanently on the PW web site I think). I would never do it again in open sea conditions. It was like being on a roller coaster ride, only the roller coaster you are in is its own wild ride -- like the amusement park ride "The Zipper" -- superimposed on the roller coaster ride. I get sick just thinking about it. -During the height of the gale on our Storm Island crossing and rescue, winds hit 35 knots. A Southwest 3-meter swell was rolling in from the Pacific, with a wind generated 6 to 8 foot S sea on top of the swell, with a tide running. One had to power over the top of each crest. Hard work after hours and enless hours. The limiting factor in these breaking seas was exposure and mental fatigue. Eventually, physical exhaustion catches up once inner reserves of strength fade - and they will. Paddlers on the fist ever Bass Straight crossing report being blown way of course in 35 knot seas. They had to raft together, changing positions of the middle paddler as the outside individual's arms kept going numb from holding on. They were lucky. - In big or steep seas, the boat can probably take it, but can you? Can your gear? The videos I mention say that the skipper may have had the skills to navigate severe weather, but will the vessel survive the pounding. This aspect gets sailors into trouble time and time again in heavy weather sailing. One of the kayaks on our crossing split a hull-deck join. Did anyone anticipate that (well I did, but I was only responsible for maintaing my own kayak). What about Peter Bray and his transatlantic crossing goal. I wonder if the keel ballast thing under his kayak would break off if he encoutered heavy Atlantic gales. Bet you he had never tested it in those kind of conditions. -I could go on, but this isn't sea kayaking anymore. If you were out in conditions like in the movie, "The Perfect Storm", you would be dead in the time it takes to read my post. Needless to say, if you have an aversion to dramatic sea stories, don't come over to my wife's parents place for Sunday dinner when my father-in-law's brothers and I are around! BC'in Ya Doug Lloyd *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Doug LLoyd wrote: >Needless to say, if you have an aversion to dramatic sea stories, don't come over to my wife's parents place for Sunday dinner when my father-in-law's brothers and I are around! > What's for dinner? Sounds like a fun and informative time. I have learned all sorts of "what not to do"'s from your posts, and a lot of "What to do if"'s. Keep on posting your "horror" stories. Rob. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 11:46 PM 7/13/00 -0700, Doug Lloyd wrote: >Well, I >better get outta here before Kevin notices me defending myself again ><g>. (Glad he's back on the list - whish he'd do more articles for SK >Magazine). Thanks for the praise... I'm actually working on one right now, that describes in more detail the things I've been talking about lately. How to use your edges and so forth. Should be done fairly soon, although it definitely helps to have encouragement. Kevin Kevin Whilden Your Planet Earth http://www.yourplanetearth.org (206) 788-0281 (ph) (206) 788-0284 (f) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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