Since I am responsible for starting this general thread I would like to make clearer my position, which was both stated and implied in my book. Here is what I practice based on my own experience and which are the tenets of the conscientious commando camper: Here is a pecking order of property I would camp on if I could not find anything legal to stop at: First, Railroad right of way property or utilities property. Abandoned factory land, wide expanses of undeveloped land, etc. are also a first choice. Your are traspassing but if your actions don't interfere with the workings of the place, then what is the harm? I would most definitely stay away from range towers and on-land bouys where your camping might interfere with its operation or be construed that way by the Coast Guard (Think I am kidding. Two guys got hit with some heavy fines when they camped on Mill Rock, a stopover spot for round-Manhattan paddlers. There is an aid to navigation there steering ships through the tricky Hell Gate area. The Coast Guard nabbed them probably for hanging their wash on the aid.) Next or on the same order as the first above, would be parkland, off in a corner somewhere or a bit of an island or isolated peninsula away from paths and roads. An amazing amount of such exists along the shores of most bodies of water. Again this is a violation but if you do no harm. If you are being sensible in your camping practices and you do get found by a ranger, your luck will likely be like mine. They will say okay. Next, if it had to be really private property, I would opt for one that seemed owned by a local AND I would most definitely ask permission regardless of what I expected they might say. Locals tend to be aware when you are around and so it is safest to ask them. I stated all of this in my book, i.e. locals being aware of you and going to ask them permission. They are also the most likely to say yes. But if they say no, then paddle on. You should not defy them. Lastly, I would opt for private property owned as vacation homes here in the East. This type of person is never going to give you permission, believe me. If that was all that was available, then I would do so without asking. This is a biased opinion of mine based on what I have seen of such landowners, Mark Lane excepted who seems most generous with his stretch of land on the Maine coast. BUT surely one of the other categories presented above would lend itself to camping and you could almost always find such before resorting to the last type. I apologize for the discussion focusing so much on the individual private owner and the question of asking permission. It is a rare occasion that I and any sensible commando camper would choose such a site. We are not out there to defy authority and property rights. We are out there to get along with our surroundings and to be as unobtrusive as we can. You would have to be pretty desperate and dog-tired or fleeing some nasty weather before being forced into the position of camping on the land owned by an individual. The real issue is that there is so little legal camping spots along some of the best paddling waters. So support water trail organizations to see to it that more spots open up. ralph diaz -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
ralph wrote about his views of commando camping, providing some very thoughtful ideas. Among them, he wrote: > Next or on the same order as the first above, would be parkland, off in > a corner somewhere or a bit of an island or isolated peninsula away from > paths and roads. An amazing amount of such exists along the shores of > most bodies of water. Again this is a violation but if you do no harm. > If you are being sensible in your camping practices and you do get found > by a ranger, your luck will likely be like mine. They will say okay. The only thing I would add to this -- and I don't mean to come off as sanctimonious here -- is that if a parkland (or even private land) *is* designated as a no-camping area (which you may not know just by wandering onto it) it *could* be because it is a nesting ground or breeding area for some animal (or plant) that might be seriously harmed by your presence. Example: I recently landed on a tiny (uninhabited) island in an inland lake -- for no particular reason other than it seemed like a fun thing to do (and to take a pee). Once I was out of the boat, I saw two loon eggs carefully tucked up next to a tree at the edge of the shore. Looking around, I saw the loons out in the water. I felt sick inside. As quickly and quietly as I could, I launched and moved on, praying that my landing would not have any impact on the nest. I did see the loons a couple of days later still guarding the spot, so I think it is OK. But it would be very easy, I believe, for a landing to result in the loss of the two eggs -- a great loss -- they are such amazingly beautiful birds. Just a thought. . . not meant to make any kind of point, really. . . Mark *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
"Sailboat Restorations, Inc." wrote: > > Oops. Accidentally sent this from someone else's email (thought I had > switched the computer account over to mine). This was from me, Mark Lane. > Mark We knew it was you, Mark. Thoughtful comments, too. Keep the light lit. I'm off the grid for a while. Will report on the adventures when I return. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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