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From: Joshua Teitelbaum <teitelba_at_post.tau.ac.il>
subject: [Paddlewise] Boat visibility
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 07:24:11 +0200
Dear Friends:

Which boat colors are the most visible, night and day?

Has the US Coast Guard or someone else done tests?

Matt, when I was in your store you pointed at a blue boat, saying that it
had been determined that that type of blue was the most visible.  What
type of blue was it?

Does a white hull make a kayak less or more visible?

And finally, is my favorite color, British Racing Green, a visible color?

And yes, I am close to purchasing my first kayak, an NDK Romany Explorer!

Thanks!

Josh

==============================================================================
Dr. Joshua Teitelbaum					 Tel: [972] 3-640-6448
Moshe Dayan Center for Middle Eastern and		 Fax: [972] 3-641-5802
  African Studies				E-mail:teitelba_at_ccsg.tau.ac.il
Tel Aviv University
Ramat Aviv, Tel Aviv 69978  Israel
==============================================================================


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From: Vincent Swendsen <ultrarnr_at_hotmail.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Boat visibility
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 06:28:53 -0500
Josh,
    A white hulled boat will blend in with white-capping waves making you 
far less visible. I am guessing that you would be doing a lot of paddling in 
the Mediterranean so this would be an issue. I do most of my paddling in the 
Atlantic Ocean and have an orange kayak. My PFD is orange also. Visibility 
is a concern for both boaters avoiding you and for help to find you if 
needed. If you are on calm inland waterways this may not be much of an issue 
but for open ocean paddling I would give it more thought.

   Paddle on.......  Vinny


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From: Barbara Kossy <bkossy_at_igc.org>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Boat visibility
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 07:28:13 -0800
I've found yellow to be easiest to see in a variety of conditions.
It's important to consider visibility when choosing your PFD and hat as
well. My husband races kayaks, and when he's wearing a yellow hat it's a lot
easier to pick him out of an approching goup of paddlers. A bright orange
hat is visible as well. The problem with red is that it dissapears into
shadows and when light levels diminish. Same with blue and green. I've also
added reflectors to my helmet, paddle, and we both use PFDs with reflectors.
Barbara
Moss Beach, CA.


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From: Whyte, David <DHW_at_Mail.amsa.gov.au>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Boat visibility
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 11:05:39 +1100
Joshua

I work for the Australian Maritime Safety Authority which co-ordinates all
the sea rescues in Australian waters. I spoke to our SAR operators a while
ago about colours for sea rescues and these were their comments

Forget white its the worst colour for spotting at sea.
The best colour is Flourescent orange. I believe there is an international
standard for this and a lot of life rafts etc are coloured this way.
Red would be the next best colour.
I had heard about tests done on Blue but none of our SAR operators knew
about it. I suspect the blue works best on dull grey days so would not be
suited to Australian conditions (lots of blue sky and water).
I would guess green would not be a great colour unless its that bright
fluescent green (the same as on my bicycle jacket)

During the day a signalling mirror is easy to spot. A blank CD works good
During the night a small strobe light can show up a very long distance.

David
Australia


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From: John Fereira <jaf30_at_cornell.edu>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Boat visibility
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 20:06:28 -0500
At 11:05 AM 12/1/00 +1100, Whyte, David wrote:
>Joshua
>
>I work for the Australian Maritime Safety Authority which co-ordinates all
>the sea rescues in Australian waters. I spoke to our SAR operators a while
>ago about colours for sea rescues and these were their comments
>
>Forget white its the worst colour for spotting at sea.
>The best colour is Flourescent orange. I believe there is an international
>standard for this and a lot of life rafts etc are coloured this way.

International orange, I believe it is called.

>Red would be the next best colour.

I have read several places that  red is not a good color for low light
situations
because it just looks like black.   It's fine for getting spotted at sea
during the
day but if a rescue effort continues until dark it becomes difficult to
distinguish
from a deep dark sea.   I have also read the two contrasting colors is better
than one solid color.




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From: ralph diaz <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Boat visibility
Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 10:25:11 -0800
John Fereira wrote:
> 
> At 11:05 AM 12/1/00 +1100, Whyte, David wrote:
> >Joshua
> >
> >I work for the Australian Maritime Safety Authority which co-ordinates all
> >the sea rescues in Australian waters. I spoke to our SAR operators a while
> >ago about colours for sea rescues and these were their comments
> >
> >Forget white its the worst colour for spotting at sea.
> >The best colour is Flourescent orange. I believe there is an international
> >standard for this and a lot of life rafts etc are coloured this way.
> 
> International orange, I believe it is called.

Actually the name of the color is International _Rescue_ Orange.  I
remember when the Canadian Maple Leaf flag was first being proposed
three decades ago, an early printed version that I saw was strikingly
similar in its color to good ole International Rescue Orange.  I kidding
my Alberta-born wife mercilously over that.  Come to think of it the
Maple Leaf flag is pretty visible and perhaps we should all fly big ones
on our kayaks.


ralph
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter
PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024
Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com
"Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

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From: Matt Broze <mkayaks_at_oz.net>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Boat visibility
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 21:53:34 -0800
Joshua Teitelbaum <teitelba_at_post.tau.ac.il> wrote:

>>>>>>Which boat colors are the most visible, night and day?

Has the US Coast Guard or someone else done tests?

Matt, when I was in your store you pointed at a blue boat, saying that it
had been determined that that type of blue was the most visible.  What
type of blue was it?<<<<<<<

Yes, the Coast Guard has done tests. They say (and I said then) that yellow
is the most visible over the widest range of conditions. What was surprising
in these tests was that a light blue was the next most visible color to
yellow. Where most oranges and reds look very dark in dim light or at night
light blue seems to almost glow (however nothing compares to reflective tape
here). Also a light "Marlin" blue (sort of a bluer dyed turquoise like
color) is not the color of anything else in nature so it stands out because
it is unnatural. (Except for the bill of a Ruddy duck--first time I ever saw
this duck, near the U of WA campus, I thought it must be someone's research
experiment because the duck's bill color was so different that it looked to
me like it must have been painted on).
"If you want to be seen you need to make yourself bigger, brighter or
different", is how the Coast Guard Captain put it to me years ago in a
boating safety class.

>>>>Does a white hull make a kayak less or more visible?<<<<<

Depends on what's around it. It's bright, but if viewed from the air amongst
a lot of whitecaps it is not different. I think it is a good choice for a
hull color because it will be very visible at night (from the side as seen
by an approaching vessel) when the deck color you don't mind looking at all
day might not be very visible at all. Your PFD and hat probably have the
potential to be more visible than the low kayak. What has the best chance of
being seen is your paddle blades. They are constantly waving around making
yourself bigger and different so the best thing you can do if you want to be
seen by others is to also make them bright.

>>>>>>And finally, is my favorite color, British Racing Green, a visible
color?<<<<<

No, and it will show every scratch as well, but if you like it and
compensate with a white hull, bright PFD, and bright paddle blades I don't
think you have compromised your safety much. I would also take into account
what kind of traffic and how much of it you encounter where you will be
paddling when making the decision. If the traffic is ships a green deck is
going to be harder to see from high above. If speedboats are the threat at
least then your hull will be more visible to them than a ship. A few further
thoughts. In your hot climate you probably don't want colors like British
Racing Green that heat up too much in the sun and at the same time you do
not want a bright white deck which will help blind you with reflected light.
Nigel Foster had a good article on "Choosing Colors for Sea Kayaks" a few
years back in Sea Kayaker. I looked on Sea Kayaker's website and couldn't
find it there (and then I got waylaid by bringing my "back
issues/out-of-print issues" filing system up to date). I finally found it in
the index of the first fifty issues. It is in the Feb. 1995 issue (#44--this
issue is still available from Sea Kayaker--unfortunately the article is not
online). For those of you who like the safety articles in "Deep Trouble" I
see the last one I did (that Sea Kayaker printed) is available online now
from the Dec. 1997 issue at http://www.seakayakermag.com/articles.htm.

>>>>And yes, I am close to purchasing my first kayak, an NDK Romany
Explorer!

Thanks!
Josh<<<<<

Let us know what colors you finally choose?

Matt Broze
http://www.marinerkayaks.com



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From: Vince Dalrymple <vincedalrymple_at_home.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Boat visibility
Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 09:49:31 -0800
Please excuse the tardy response (Josh), but hopefully this will be worth
something to the new boat buyers out there who do not feel like painting
International Rescue Orange over a brand spankin' new boat.

A friend of mine who owns a Mariner Express in the "Marlin" bluish - green Matt
describes below was paddling Tropical Storm Dennis on the Chesapeake Bay with
some friends and I.  The boats included:
    M's Marlin Blue Mariner Express
    J's Yellow Mariner Express
    G's Std. Red VCP Nordcapp
    my Green / Blk F-craft Khatsalano
The visibility due to torrential downpours at one point dropped to about 1 1/2 ~
2 boat lengths (that with clear wrap-around shades I use for storm paddling).
After the paddle, we compared notes on our boats' visibilities, and if you
reverse the above list you'll have the order in which they "disappeared"
(distance wise) into the whiteout conditions.

>From other experiences, I've found VCP's Golden Yellow to be almost as visible
as the Marlin Blue under all the conditions I've been in here in the Mid
Atlantic.  Next would probably be VCP's Red (if not faded), but as said already,
tends to get lost in lower light situations.  I was surprised how dark a
friend's new Red deck & hull Romany appeared during a BCU class held in (low
light daytime) storm conditions.  The instructor's all Red Anas was even tougher
to make out due to fading / "drabbing" of his deck / hull.  I admit I'm kind of
splitting hairs here in that the light conditions were not "bad", just low
enough to easily see the differences between various colors in storm seas and
surf.

Getting back to Mariner's Marlin Blue, it seems as good as any standard deck
color available for all paddling except clear turquoise waters.  If only Matt
would push equally visible hull colors so his boats could be easier spotted at a
glance when rolling around upturned and unmanned in surf...

Matt Broze wrote:

> Joshua Teitelbaum <teitelba_at_post.tau.ac.il> wrote:
>
> >>>>>>Which boat colors are the most visible, night and day?
>
> Has the US Coast Guard or someone else done tests?
>
> Matt, when I was in your store you pointed at a blue boat, saying that it
> had been determined that that type of blue was the most visible.  What
> type of blue was it?<<<<<<<
>
> Yes, the Coast Guard has done tests. They say (and I said then) that yellow
> is the most visible over the widest range of conditions. What was surprising
> in these tests was that a light blue was the next most visible color to
> yellow. Where most oranges and reds look very dark in dim light or at night
> light blue seems to almost glow (however nothing compares to reflective tape
> here). Also a light "Marlin" blue (sort of a bluer dyed turquoise like
> color) is not the color of anything else in nature so it stands out because
> it is unnatural. (Except for the bill of a Ruddy duck--first time I ever saw
> this duck, near the U of WA campus, I thought it must be someone's research
> experiment because the duck's bill color was so different that it looked to
> me like it must have been painted on).
> "If you want to be seen you need to make yourself bigger, brighter or
> different", is how the Coast Guard Captain put it to me years ago in a
> boating safety class.
>
> >>>>Does a white hull make a kayak less or more visible?<<<<<
>
> Depends on what's around it. It's bright, but if viewed from the air amongst
> a lot of whitecaps it is not different. I think it is a good choice for a
> hull color because it will be very visible at night (from the side as seen
> by an approaching vessel) when the deck color you don't mind looking at all
> day might not be very visible at all. Your PFD and hat probably have the
> potential to be more visible than the low kayak. What has the best chance of
> being seen is your paddle blades. They are constantly waving around making
> yourself bigger and different so the best thing you can do if you want to be
> seen by others is to also make them bright.

regular no affiliation with Mariner or any other kayak manufacturer clause

Vince
Orange deck, Golden Yellow hull Anas Acuta
Blk diagonal striped between gunwales & chines to tell bow from stern at a
glance if hull is upturned (for rescue purposes)
Yellow bladed paddle
Yellow PFD / Or.&Ylw PFD, both with SOLAS reflective tape and patches


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From: Matt Broze <mkayaks_at_oz.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Boat visibility
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 23:53:07 -0800
Vince Dalrymple <vincedalrymple_at_home.com> wrote:
<SNIP>
>>>>>>Getting back to Mariner's Marlin Blue, it seems as good as any
standard deck
color available for all paddling except clear turquoise waters.  If only
Matt
would push equally visible hull colors so his boats could be easier spotted
at a
glance when rolling around upturned and unmanned in surf...<<<<<SNIP>

Think of it this way. If you rollover and die in your white hulled kayak
your life won't be all for not. Your legacy will be having done your small
part to decrease global warming as the white hull you left facing the sun
reflects the most energy back into space than water or any other color you
could choose for your hull). :-)

Actually, it has been my experience that our hulls have the frustrating
tendency to stay upright in the surf once they are swamped. I would like
them to quickly roll back to shore on the front of a breaking soup but like
some disobedient puppy they obstinately stay upright and keep slipping over
the breakers. I know, maybe a rudder would help. It might provide the wave
with the leverage it needs to get that rolling action started.

I don't particularly "push" any color on a customer. I do try to present the
pros and cons of each choice and let the customer decide based on what
factors are more important to them. Visibility (and some want to disappear
on the beach rather than be seen on the water), weight (yep, some colors
weigh more), fading and scratch resistance and the scratch's
visibility=resale value, high light reflectivity hurts the eyes and high
light absorption cooks the kayak's contents, and some folks even consider
the psychological factors involved in looking out over the large area of
foredeck color that's constantly in their field of vision.
Several customers have chosen marlin blue decks with yellow hulls and
although I personally find the combination not very appealing, I figure "to
each his own". However, we have on a few occasions increased the size of the
deposit we ask for when an order is placed because some of the color
combinations customers have chosen would be very hard to sell to anyone else
if they back out after the parts are made (or decided they didn't like the
unusual colors they picked later). I think the black deck/red hull kayak was
the strangest combination we've done (black deck--talk about increasing
global warming--but the local warming in that kayak would be what would
bother me most).
We have had many orders cancelled for many reasons over the years but only
once that I can recall have we not returned a customers deposit when that
happened. We kept the $100 deposit of one customer in the late 1980's who
insisted he wanted an older model we had discontinued and would now find
much harder to sell. We went to a whole lot of extra trouble to restore the
mold and build him the kayak he insisted he had to have, then once it was
ready he told us he couldn't buy it because his wife decided to use the
money to remodel the bathroom. Looking back on it, I suppose we should have
been more merciful. That man had probably already been punished enough but I
guess I was just not feeling real sympathetic at the time.

Matt Broze
http://www.marinerkayaks.com



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