I said: <snip> <<I can always tell after a few posts on paddlewise, whether a paddler is talking or walking the walk.>> <snip> Due to numerous requests, I will be publishing a list of "soft-core" paddlers and real "hard-core" ones. The list will be sub-divided further, indicating "good soft-core" paddlers and "poseur hard-core" paddlers. I will not be needing any help from more experienced paddlers on PW, as this would provide sub-optimal results. As sole adjudicator of this forthcoming list, it will no doubt be absolute and perfect. :-) In self-jest, Doug Lloyd *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 11/5/00 4:46:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, dlloyd_at_telus.net writes: << Due to numerous requests, I will be publishing a list of "soft-core" paddlers and real "hard-core" ones. The list will be sub-divided further, indicating "good soft-core" paddlers and "poseur hard-core" paddlers. I will not be needing any help from more experienced paddlers on PW, as this would provide sub-optimal results. As sole adjudicator of this forthcoming list, it will no doubt be absolute and perfect. :-) >> Doug, could we collate this with what tents they use? Hank :-) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
How about us foam-core open canoe paddlers....Doug? Are you tough enough to surf launch an open canoe in 3 foot waves, or do you always tuck (hide) your jello-core in pointy boats with spray skirts? I have noticed that the bigger the waves, the bigger the talk, and the tighter the (spray) skirt. Remember, a skilled seakayaker with practice can roll their boats, a trick I have yet to master, since I always fall out of those open canoes, first. So.. am I a hard core foam cored poseur, or Glub, glub. Rich Dempsey ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ See our wilderness canoe tripping website http://communities.msn.com/RichWendysAwayFromHomePage ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Lloyd" <dlloyd_at_telus.net> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2000 12:04 PM Subject: [Paddlewise] Soft Paddlers (was Soft Water) > I said: > <snip> <<I can always tell after a few posts on paddlewise, whether a > paddler is talking or walking the walk.>> <snip> > > a list of "soft-core" > paddlers and real "hard-core" ones...sub-divided > further, indicating "good soft-core" paddlers and "poseur hard-core" > paddlers. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 11/5/00 4:46:28 PM, dlloyd_at_telus.net writes: << Due to numerous requests, I will be publishing a list of "soft-core" paddlers and real "hard-core" ones. The list will be sub-divided further, indicating "good soft-core" paddlers and "poseur hard-core" paddlers. I will not be needing any help from more experienced paddlers on PW, as this would provide sub-optimal results. As sole adjudicator of this forthcoming list, it will no doubt be absolute and perfect. :-) >> I can hardly wait <G>. Joan Spinner who wonders on which list her name will appear *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 11/5/00 5:41:09 PM, rdempsey_at_CALAMITY.WYOMING.COM writes: <<Are you tough enough to surf launch an open canoe in 3 foot waves, or do you always tuck (hide) ... a skilled seakayaker with practice can roll their boats, a trick I have yet to master, since I always fall out of those open canoes, first. >> Last year this fairly obnoxious guy showed up at a pool session with a canoe filled to the brim with flotation. I was at least impressed with his paddling as I watched him repeatedly roll this canoe, even if his manners were much less than gracious to others in the pool. Joan Spinner who has retreated to the pool for voluntary rolling until at least next spring. I guess I'm not on the hard-core list <G> *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Joan..you have the wrong obnoxious guy in mind, it wasn't me. Honest! Our trips are mostly 50 day expeditions. When we dumped our canoe this summer on the Hiukitak River in Nunavut (an unscouted ledge, after scouting dozens of minor riffles), my wife said "Is this (getting dumped) the worst that can happen? (Air temps were 80F, water temps 60F), while we were drying off on shore and emptying the canoe, and changing clothes. I said yes.. apart from the small risk of hitting your head on a rock , and drowning. Or being swept downstream into a bigger rapid, and drowning. Or dumping in 34F water with at a 40F air temp and wind, with the canoe and contents continuing down river, and dying of hypothermia. Mostly I was surprised that my glasses stayed on (wasn't using chums).... Unfortunately that brilliant little riposte meant that I wound up lining the remaining shallow rapids. Those rapids that I chose to wade and/or run, I did so after Wendy removed both herself, and her clothes pack AND a food pack from the canoe. Definitely a pair of hardcore foam-core poseurs, here. Rich PS: Do they have "pool sessions" in heated pools? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ See our canoe tripping website http://communities.msn.com/RichWendysAwayFromHomePage ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ----- Original Message ----- From: <JSpinner_at_aol.com> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2000 6:23 PM Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Soft Paddlers (was Soft Water) > In a message dated 11/5/00 5:41:09 PM, rdempsey_at_CALAMITY.WYOMING.COM writes: > > <<Are you tough enough to surf launch an open canoe in 3 foot waves, or do you > > always tuck (hide) ... a skilled seakayaker with practice can > > roll their boats, a trick I have yet to master, since I always fall out of > > those open canoes, first. >> > > Last year this fairly obnoxious guy showed up at a pool session with a canoe > filled to the brim with flotation. I was at least impressed with his paddling > as I watched him repeatedly roll this canoe, even if his manners were much > less than gracious to others in the pool. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hey foam-boy, I'm a Canuk, eh! Open-Canadian Canoe is my middle name. And not only do I enter and exit good size open water surf with my tough-enough F-glass 18 footer, I do it without those newfangled nylon deck covers I see all the yuppies using. Know what else? The whole fam damily does it with me. I especially delight in placing my old lady in the bow. She sure looks cute when that big ol' wave comes over her little head. Darn tootn' good wave deflector she is. Even the two kids get a good laugh out of that one. So ya big-talking foam-head, any poseur can paddle a canoe through surf, ya just give her a good push, jump in and drive on through. Side-surfing in is even easier. But can ya paddle yer open canoe in tidal rapids off-shore. Yup, done that too, and with the whole fam damily in there again. We even met up with some of those jello-core pointy boys, TURNING back 'cause the boils and eddies were to intense. Oh my goodness gracious guys. We just gunned it through, kids down low, with the wife unit going for all she was worth. My eldest daughter even looked up for a second, just in time to wish the wussy wave warriors a g'day. That's my girl! (If Social Services gets wind of this post, I will disavow any knowledge of it). So Rich, would you like a peek at some pics of Ol' Blue? She's a big-ass Canadian cruiser, tri-keeled, heavy, and ready to run anywhere. We even spend hours on placid lakes, 5-mile deep salt-marshes and overgrown tributaries (playing "Missionaries to the Congo). That old Ralph Diaz guy was wondering what I'd ever do with myself paddling for miles in placid conditions and steep dunes and beaches. Well, been there, done that, will do it again -- in an open Canadian canoe. Steep beaches, just jump out. Try that in a air-core, pointy-blunt kayak. PS Will post pic's address. Hey, awesome home-page, Rich. BC'in Ya Doug Lloyd rdempsey wrote: > How about us foam-core open canoe paddlers....Doug? > > Are you tough enough to surf launch an open canoe in 3 foot waves, or do you > always tuck (hide) your jello-core in pointy boats with spray skirts? > I have noticed that the bigger the waves, the bigger the talk, and the > tighter the (spray) skirt. Remember, a skilled seakayaker with practice can > roll their boats, a trick I have yet to master, since I always fall out of > those open canoes, first. > > So.. am I a hard core foam cored poseur, or > > Glub, glub. > Rich Dempsey > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > See our wilderness canoe tripping website > http://communities.msn.com/RichWendysAwayFromHomePage > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Doug Lloyd" <dlloyd_at_telus.net> > To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> > Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2000 12:04 PM > Subject: [Paddlewise] Soft Paddlers (was Soft Water) > > > I said: > > <snip> <<I can always tell after a few posts on paddlewise, whether a > > paddler is talking or walking the walk.>> <snip> > > > > a list of "soft-core" > > paddlers and real "hard-core" ones...sub-divided > > further, indicating "good soft-core" paddlers and "poseur hard-core" > > paddlers. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
there is a neat picture of "our Doug" at the bottom of this page doing a brace I've never thought of while he uses a hand pump. Interesting idea but how does he keep the pump in the boat as he pumps? http://www.nswseakayaker.asn.au/mag/43/seams.html Joan Spinner *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
It's actually a sculling stroke he is using. It can also be used when taking pictures. sid there is a neat picture of "our Doug" at the bottom of this page doing a brace I've never thought of while he uses a hand pump. Interesting idea but how does he keep the pump in the boat as he pumps? http://www.nswseakayaker.asn.au/mag/43/seams.html Joan Spinner *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
<<It's actually a sculling stroke he is using. It can also be used when taking pictures.>> yea! that's the word but how is he using the pump? That's what I want to know. Fess up Doug. BTW, I can't open the file you sent. Is it the picture from the web page? Even Photshop won't open it so it must be something PC.I'm on a Mac. Joan *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Joan, You had to dredge that picture up again, eh? The self-rescue procedure displayed in the picture is a method for pumping-out that actually works reasonably well in high winds and choppy seas. It is less predictable in terms of successfulness as seas get really steep and/or exhaustion conspires against you. In the photo shoot, I was practicing paddlefloat and re-entry and roll self-rescues, and doing it (including the pumping) in bigger seas but, was blown back behind a breakwater -- where the pic came out fairly mellow. It is just as well I didn't depict the procedure in rougher seas, given the reduced reliability in those rougher seas. One needs and should have a number of practiced procedures for self-rescue and bailing in their "tool box" of protocols and practices. I have a number, and have used some of them in real life. Nothing ever goes wrong in absolute text-book fashion. The more you know and have practiced, the better off you are (or will be). Having said that, one certainly should concentrate on one or two main preferred methodologies, keeping it simple. Expand your repertoire as time and experience permit. None are easily executed in the kind of conditions commesurate with what normally caused the more experienced paddler to bail-out after capsize. Another point: On our Storm Island incident, when one of the kayakers who was out ahead of the other two split a seam and water subsequently filled the cockpit in the deep-water, gale-driven waves, the "re-configured lines" of the kayak actually compressed the seat side-support sufficiently enough to wedge the hapless paddler's hand-held pump so tight, that he could not extricate it. I believe the individual in question eventually had to utilize some kind of small container. Like I said, nothing ever goes "textbook" out there when things go sideways. I try to tell people this -- that it is not as simple all the time as the paddling manuals write and the instructors teach. I usually get a cold reception when I mention this to folks - like I'm complicating matters and adding drama. At this self-sufficient stage in life, I just tell them to "bugger off then". Not very charitable, I know. I once had to use a similar maneuver as in the pic, but with a rear deck-mounted pump during an approaching hurricane --no lie (I really did some daring stuff when I was younger). The account is on the PW web page at: http://www.paddlewise.net/stories/dlloyd.html Here is the relevant text portion after cracking my hull on a reef in heavy swell (well, Matt always quotes his previous writtings :-) ): -------------- Revelation finally came. I turned to face the waves, and headed out to safer water, purchasing some precious pumping time. "Okay Doug, let's see, paddle loom over back of neck, scull for support with one arm, pump rear deck Henderson bilge with other arm." On flat water, Derek Hutchison had made it look so easy. "Hey Hutchy, nice circus act. Sorry, but I don't have time for clowning around right now. Forget this". It was impossible to turn one's torso backwards, try to retain stability, and pump from the rear. I vowed to remount the pump to the front deck if I ever made it home. After another short prayer (one of Derek Hutchinson's better pieces of rescue advice), another revelation: it consisted of three or four strokes forward, then a wide forward sweep to correct course, then three quick pumps on the rear deck bilge. Three pumps were the limit, at which point capsize was imminent. That kept enough water out and permitted the necessary strokes to keep off the lee shore. The hurricane remnants were moving in fast. Taking my mind off the weather, I mused and then really wondered how the BCU's Manufacturers Association standards could allow such a ridiculous location as putting a bilge pump on the rear deck. By the time I rounded Owen Point into Port San Juan, the muscles down the back of my pumping arm were severely cramped, as were the muscles of my other arm from sweeping continually. I had... ------------ As you can see Joan, in truly outlandish conditions, only an electric pump (if it is working) wins the war for hands-free pumping. The front deck-mounted pump is not a bad compromise though. As far as hand-held pumps, they are a good back-up in my book. In the photo, I also have a foot pump installed, but was purposely trying a hand-held pump, as that is what is commonly carried by most paddlers. The foot pump can be really hard to maintain the mechanics of that action, other than a quick once-over clearing-out of the water in a cockpit of a smaller volume boat. Where continuous water is entering your cockpit via a leak, it only takes a few minutes in cold, nervous conditions to form calf muscle cramps. Some people have played with the foot-pump peddal mounting location, allowing for either a ball-of-foot motion, or conversely, a heal-pump motion using the whole leg. Much depends upon the layout of your boat and individual biomechanics. In either case, knee bracing can be compromized. As to your question, directly, the picture is of me sculling for support (facing forward, which is much easier), with the hand-held pump simply pinched between my knees. I don't find any auxiliary method for fastening the pump in place temporarily to the inside hull via a snap-in fixture, necessary. The method works best sculling into the weather. I find my left arm is sufficiently strong enough to pump for a certain duration, leaving my stronger right arm for the more difficult sculling action. I can do it the other way, when required for photography, as the shutter button works best with my right hand. In rough stuff, I'm sorry, but I don't have a good off-side scull n' pump. Sorry, I'm a failure, I know. BC'in Ya Doug Lloyd (who's gotten himself into more "ship" over the years than he cares to remember, but is gratefull to the faithful coaches and safety-types who have shared their advice and technical pointers over the years). JSpinner_at_aol.com wrote: > <<It's actually a sculling stroke he is using. It can also be used when > taking > pictures.>> > > yea! that's the word but how is he using the pump? That's what I want to > know. Fess up Doug. > > BTW, I can't open the file you sent. Is it the picture from the web page? > Even Photshop won't open it so it must be something PC.I'm on a Mac. > > Joan *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> yea! that's the word but how is he using the pump? That's what I want to > know. Fess up Doug. > > Joan > He has fuzzy velcro glued (epoxy, of course) to his inner thighs, and the hooked velcro epoxied to the pump. He can then hold the pump securely between his legs while he operates it with one hand <g>. Allan Singleton *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
<<He has fuzzy velcro glued (epoxy, of course) to his inner thighs, and the hooked velcro epoxied to the pump. He can then hold the pump securely between his legs while he operates it with one hand <g>>> He must walk kind of funny with that arrangment. I thought it was just back problems! Joan *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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