Personally, I would rather take my chances punching through the breaker then rolling under it. If the wave is really huge and you don't make it through then you will probably get pushed backward. In this case you need to keep clawing at the water in an attempt to get through and, if your persistent and are able to resist capsize or a back ender, then you should eventually make it through. If you choose to capsize under the wave then you will be exposing yourself to any underwater rocks that might be present. You will also be setting yourself up for a good pummeling. Riding out a wave while capsized can be a fairly brutal experience. I have almost been pulled from my boat in such situations, and once I had my helmet ripped off of my head when the force of the water pulled out the rivets which attach the chin strap. Another time I broke my paddle in half while trying to roll up in the turbulence. If the waves are so large that you really don't think you will be able to punch through them, then you really shouldn't be out on the water in the first place. I can think of very few scenarios where one might feel that they absolutely had to risk such an action. If by some freak chance you did find yourself inside a killer break that you knew was way beyond your abilities, then I think you would be better off exiting the boat and taking your chances as a swimmer. Scott So.Cal. << A technique question about surf skills: Anyone have any good ideas on rolling under breakers too big to punch through? Particularly, I am wondering about: 1. timing the roll under 2. timing the roll up 3. whether to stay in a roll set-up position while under water, or 4. whether to extend arms and paddle while under water to get a greater braking effect? 5. what size surf do you punch/spear through, what size do you roll under, and at what point do you just keep out altogether? Any real life practical tips appr >> *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I like to wait to roll under at the last second. Since you won't begin your roll up until after the wave passes over you and the turbulence stops, you want to minimize the amount of time you're holding your breath. Since I've been doing a lot of cardio cross training, I'm able to hold my breath quite a long time. Being able to hold your breath a long time keeps you relaxed as you are being violently tossed around upside down. (It's fun with the right gear and deep water). Also, keep your paddle close to the "set up" position. I had forgot to do this once and while I was holding onto my paddle above my head, I felt I was in a torture chamber being stretched. One other important skill in doing this comfortably is being able to roll your kayak without a spray skirt (a swamped boat). Practice this OUT of the surf zone first. Several times while playing in the surf in my sea kayak, the spray skirt has popped off. Rolling a swamped kayak isn't that difficult, but the boat does roll more slowly. Having the ability to hold your breath a long time and the confidence of being able to roll a fully swamped boat will serve you well. You won't panic. (Duane Strosaker taught me that). When I practice in the surf, I use the wood Aleutian paddle I built. No feathered Euro paddle for me; since this is the paddle I use 99% of the time. My paddle has survived a lot of surfing at San Onofre with lots of hard stern rudders. Hopefully, it will continue to serve me well. Enjoy the surf. jim gabriel - who has eaten it more than once in the surf. >From owner-owner_at_ns1.intelenet.net Sun Dec 3 14:34 PST 2000 Received: from ns.intelenet.net (ns.intelenet.net [204.182.160.1]) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA21280 for <jackie_at_qajaq.intelenet.net>; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 14:34:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns1.intelenet.net ([204.182.160.31]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28429 for <jackie_at_intelenet.net>; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 14:29:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (ns.intelenet.net [204.182.160.1]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06387 Sun, 3 Dec 2000 14:29:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns1.intelenet.net ([204.182.160.31]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28423 for <owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 14:29:26 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA06339; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 14:29:26 -0800 (PST) From: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 14:29:26 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200012032229.OAA06339_at_ns1.intelenet.net> To: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: BOUNCE paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net: Approval required: Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2352 X-Lines: 53 Status: RO Received: from ns.intelenet.net (ns.intelenet.net [204.182.160.1]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06299 Sun, 3 Dec 2000 14:29:22 -0800 (PST) From: NEWTOT_at_mail.modot.state.mo.us Received: from asphalt.modot.state.mo.us (asphalt.modot.state.mo.us [168.166.124.13]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28413 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 14:29:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from sclngwy1.modot.state.mo.us (mail.modot.state.mo.us [10.1.1.156]) by asphalt.modot.state.mo.us (AIX4.3/8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA08210; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 16:22:33 -0600 Received: by sclngwy1.modot.state.mo.us(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.7 (934.1 12-30-1999)) id 862569AA.007ADCF9 ; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 16:21:59 -0600 X-Lotus-FromDomain: MODOT To: rpmmax_at_gate.net cc: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Message-ID: <862569AA.007ADC68.00_at_sclngwy1.modot.state.mo.us> Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 16:28:26 -0600 Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Info on accountability. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Pete, You stated: An individual paddler is always 100% responsible for their own actions. Excuses (my boat is too short or it's just a S-O-T and not fast enough) don't cut it. We, as the legal (and moral) master of a vessel, must accept all responsibility for that craft and crew (of one or two). I don't mean that at all! Everyone gets used to their boat and develops the skills necessary to control it. The point Bill and I were trying to make was that the amount of effort and skill required to do this is different for each boat. A weather cocking boat is going to take a lot more of both to keep with a pack of hard tracking ones. The hard trackers are going to require more skill to turn in tight quarters. Yes, with developed techniques this becomes easier, but it is certainly more demanding. Many boats are ranked "beginner or expert" because of this. I accept the fact that I must be proficient paddler for my plastic boat to keep up with a fast fiberglass one. With the debate raging on skill levels, we MUST look at the individual's boat. Point: Don't classify a paddler's skill level or effort without looking at his vessel! There is a degree of difficulty involved. This forum is just another utility to help us master our vessels. Tim Boat'n in the Ozarks *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 12/3/00 12:32:07 AM Pacific Standard Time, ptreby_at_ozemail.com.au writes: << 1. timing the roll under 2. timing the roll up 3. whether to stay in a roll set-up position while under water, or 4. whether to extend arms and paddle while under water to get a greater braking effect? 5. what size surf do you punch/spear through, what size do you roll under, and at what point do you just keep out altogether? Any real life practical tips appreciated.>> Peter, Below is story for you from earlier this year. It includes a roll under and good thrashing. Surf Spanking by Duane Strosaker With surf forecasted in the 5-7 foot range, I canceled my plans for a coastal paddle to go kayak surfing at San Onofre State Beach instead. Surf this size is larger than I like, but I went anyway because it was my first chance to go surfing in a while due the surf being too small lately. I met up with a couple of surf kayaking friends on the beach, Marie Humphrey and Mike Vest, and we paddled out. The surf looked more like 8 feet rather than 5-7. Waves were breaking all the way from the beach to 1/4 mile out, and they were stormy, coming in quickly one after the other with very little interval between them. I started paddling out during a lull, which ended up being too brief. Paddling out through the breakers was tiring, and just when I thought I was outside, I saw a large set that was going to break even farther out. To try to get safely inside, I paddled hard to catch a wave that was rolling under me, but I was in the wrong position and missed it. I should've kept paddling towards the beach, but I turned around and paddled out hard. A smaller wave between me and the large set on the outside blocked my view of the set for a moment. As I crested that wave, I didn't like what I saw before me. It was going to be close, so I stayed aggressive and kept paddling hard. Moments later the top of the wave was teetering above me, and it became obvious that it was going to break right on me. I realized then just how hard I was breathing from the exertion of paddling hard, and I doubted that I had enough air to make it through the pounding of this wave. I have been pounded by waves just as large, but never when I was so out of breath. I kept paddling and just before the wave broke on me, I rolled under to let the bottom of my surf kayak, an Alamax, take the beating rather than my body. This rolling under technique worked pretty well for me in the past in a long sea kayak, but in my short white water and surf kayaks, I was always tossed, which was what I expected this time. Needless to say, I was tossed, and cartwheeled, and flipped, and pried from my tucked forward position to the back deck a couple of times. And yes, I was out of air, very! I didn't even get a chance to use my bombproof roll. I was waiting for everything to calm down so I could roll, but things weren't getting any better yet. I wish I could say that I was sucked out of the cockpit, but I wasn't. The call for air was strong, so I became a squirming hatch blower. Not long after getting out of the boat, I surfaced and gasped for precious air while still in the white water. When the wave let go, I had my paddle in one hand and the kayak was a few feet away. I did a quick paddle swim to the kayak and grabbed the bow strap just before another large wave broke on me. That wave ripped the kayak out of my hand, and when I surfaced, the kayak was gone, along with my plans to do a re-entry and roll, and pump out the water with the pump I kept in the kayak. I had a long 1/4 mile swim ahead of me through surf, rip currents and a current pushing me fast down the coast. I knew I was going to stay warm in my full wetsuit and stay afloat in my PFD, and I had the paddle to make swimming faster, but despite pacing myself and taking short breaks, I was tiring quickly. When I was about halfway in, I was glad to see that Marie and Mike spotted me. Marie came to me, while Mike went for my kayak. I pulled myself up onto the back deck of Marie's white water kayak, and she towed me towards where Mike had my kayak. But we were getting hit by breaking waves and the towing was slow. Having towed swimmers in rescues myself, I knew it was slow and tiring. Marie grew tired but kept at it and did a great job. When we reached where Mike was with my kayak, we were about 40 yards off the beach and, thanks to the current, a half mile down the beach and in front of the nuclear power plant. As Marie and I positioned the boats for a side rescue, we saw a large breaking wave coming down on us, and we quickly dispersed. When I surfaced, I saw Marie get side surfed all the way to the beach and hit the boulders at the waters edge with her kayak, but she was OK. I still had a hold of the kayak and kept swimming it in, until the nasty beach break that was repeatedly pounding me ripped it from my hands. I did the paddle swim on in while watching my plastic (thank goodness) kayak getting cartwheeled repeatedly in the beach break. Getting the kayak onto the beach was no easy task. Despite air bags in the front and back, it was full of sand and water, and felt like it weighed a ton. Repeatedly, as the waves washed the kayak up on the beach, I tried to grab a hold of it, tip it over to get the water out, and drag it up the beach to safety, but the waves washing back down the beach pulled it back out, and I ended up watching my kayak do cartwheels again. Mike landed, and together, he and I were able to wrestle the kayak down, tip it over to drain the water out, and carry it up the beach. I was never so tired in my life. After rehydrating and resting about a half hour, I went back out into the surf to regain lost confidence. However, I rode only the smaller waves on the inside, because I was too tired to risk another long swim. Thank you, Marie and Mike, for the rescue! By the way, Mike ended up having a worse day than me. Later during a landing, he side surfed into a concrete pole, which put a large dent in the hull of his plastic white water kayak, and during the incident, he let go of his paddle and never saw it again. What a day in the surf at San O'! *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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