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From: <KiAyker_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Surf & Skill Ratings; Rolling Under
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 09:11:45 EST
   Personally, I would rather take my chances punching through the breaker 
then rolling under it. If the wave is really huge and you don't make it 
through then you will probably get pushed backward. In this case you need to 
keep clawing at the water in an attempt to get through and, if your 
persistent and are able to resist capsize or a back ender, then you should 
eventually make it through. 
   If you choose to capsize under the wave then you will be exposing yourself 
to any underwater rocks that might be present. You will also be setting 
yourself up for a good pummeling. Riding out a wave while capsized can be a 
fairly brutal experience. I have almost been pulled from my boat in such 
situations, and once I had my helmet ripped off of my head when the force of 
the water pulled out the rivets which attach the chin strap. Another time I 
broke my paddle in half while trying to roll up in the turbulence.
   If the waves are so large that you really don't think you will be able to 
punch through them, then you really shouldn't be out on the water in the 
first place. I can think of very few scenarios where one might feel that they 
absolutely had to risk such an action. If by some freak chance you did find 
yourself inside a killer break that you knew was way beyond your abilities, 
then I think you would be better off exiting the boat and taking your chances 
as a swimmer.

Scott
So.Cal. 

<< A technique question about surf skills:
 Anyone have any good ideas on rolling under breakers too big to punch
 through? Particularly, I am wondering about:
 1. timing the roll under
 2. timing the roll up
 3. whether to stay in a roll set-up position while under water, or
 4. whether to extend arms and paddle while under water to get a greater
 braking effect?
 5. what size surf do you punch/spear through, what size do you roll under,
 and at what point do you just keep out altogether?
 Any real life practical tips appr >>

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From: <WaterCrosser_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Surf & Skill Ratings; Rolling Under
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 17:02:56 EST
I like to wait to roll under at the last second.  Since you won't begin your 
roll up until after the wave passes over you and the turbulence stops, you 
want to minimize the amount of time you're holding your breath.

Since I've been doing a lot of cardio cross training, I'm able to hold my 
breath quite a long time.  Being able to hold your breath a long time keeps 
you relaxed as you are being violently tossed around upside down.  (It's fun 
with the right gear and deep water). Also, keep your paddle close to the "set 
up" position.  I had forgot to do this once and while I was holding onto my 
paddle above my head, I felt I was in a torture chamber being stretched.

One other important skill in doing this comfortably is being able to roll 
your kayak without a spray skirt (a swamped boat).  Practice this OUT of the 
surf zone first.  Several times while playing in the surf in my sea kayak, 
the spray skirt has popped off.  Rolling a swamped kayak isn't that 
difficult, but the boat does roll more slowly.  Having the ability to hold 
your breath a long time and the confidence of being able to roll a fully 
swamped boat will serve you well.  You won't panic.  (Duane Strosaker taught 
me that). 

When I practice in the surf, I use the wood Aleutian paddle I built.  No 
feathered Euro paddle for me; since this is the paddle I use 99% of the time. 
 My paddle has survived a lot of surfing at San Onofre with lots of hard 
stern rudders.  Hopefully, it will continue to serve me well.

Enjoy the surf.

jim gabriel - who has eaten it more than once in the surf.

>From owner-owner_at_ns1.intelenet.net Sun Dec  3 14:34 PST 2000
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Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Info on accountability.
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Pete,

You stated:
An individual paddler is always 100%
responsible for their own actions. Excuses (my boat is too short or it's
just a S-O-T and not fast enough) don't cut it. We, as the legal (and
moral) master of a vessel, must accept all responsibility for that craft
and crew (of one or two).

I don't mean that at all!  Everyone gets used to their boat and develops the
skills necessary to control it.  The point Bill and I were trying to make was
that the amount of effort and skill required to do this is different for each
boat.  A weather cocking boat is going to take a lot more of both to keep with a
pack of hard tracking ones.  The hard trackers are going to require more skill
to turn in tight quarters.  Yes, with developed techniques this becomes easier,
but it is certainly more demanding.  Many boats are ranked "beginner or expert"
because of this.

I accept the fact that I must be proficient paddler for my plastic boat to keep
up with a fast fiberglass one.  With the debate raging on skill levels, we MUST
look at the individual's boat.

 Point: Don't classify a paddler's skill level or effort without looking at his
vessel!  There is a degree of difficulty involved.  This forum is just another
utility to help us master our vessels.

Tim
Boat'n in the Ozarks



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From: <Strosaker_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Surf & Skill Ratings; Rolling Under
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 18:01:37 EST
In a message dated 12/3/00 12:32:07 AM Pacific Standard Time, 
ptreby_at_ozemail.com.au writes:

<< 1. timing the roll under
 2. timing the roll up
 3. whether to stay in a roll set-up position while under water, or
 4. whether to extend arms and paddle while under water to get a greater
 braking effect?
 5. what size surf do you punch/spear through, what size do you roll under,
 and at what point do you just keep out altogether?
 Any real life practical tips appreciated.>>
  
Peter,

Below is story for you from earlier this year.  It includes a roll under and 
good thrashing.

Surf Spanking

by Duane Strosaker

With surf forecasted in the 5-7 foot range, I canceled my plans for a coastal 
paddle to go kayak surfing at San Onofre State Beach instead. Surf this size 
is larger than I like, but I went anyway because it was my first chance to go 
surfing in a while due the surf being too small lately. I met up with a 
couple of surf kayaking friends on the beach, Marie Humphrey and Mike Vest, 
and we paddled out.

The surf looked more like 8 feet rather than 5-7. Waves were breaking all the 
way from the beach to 1/4 mile out, and they were stormy, coming in quickly 
one after the other with very little interval between them.

I started paddling out during a lull, which ended up being too brief. 
Paddling out through the breakers was tiring, and just when I thought I was 
outside, I saw a large set that was going to break even farther out. To try 
to get safely inside, I paddled hard to catch a wave that was rolling under 
me, but I was in the wrong position and missed it. I should've kept paddling 
towards the beach, but I turned around and paddled out hard. A smaller wave 
between me and the large set on the outside blocked my view of the set for a 
moment. As I crested that wave, I didn't like what I saw before me.

It was going to be close, so I stayed aggressive and kept paddling hard. 
Moments later the top of the wave was teetering above me, and it became 
obvious that it was going to break right on me. I realized then just how hard 
I was breathing from the exertion of paddling hard, and I doubted that I had 
enough air to make it through the pounding of this wave. I have been pounded 
by waves just as large, but never when I was so out of breath.

I kept paddling and just before the wave broke on me, I rolled under to let 
the bottom of my surf kayak, an Alamax, take the beating rather than my body. 
This rolling under technique worked pretty well for me in the past in a long 
sea kayak, but in my short white water and surf kayaks, I was always tossed, 
which was what I expected this time. Needless to say, I was tossed, and 
cartwheeled, and flipped, and pried from my tucked forward position to the 
back deck a couple of times. And yes, I was out of air, very!

I didn't even get a chance to use my bombproof roll. I was waiting for 
everything to calm down so I could roll, but things weren't getting any 
better yet. I wish I could say that I was sucked out of the cockpit, but I 
wasn't. The call for air was strong, so I became a squirming hatch blower. 
Not long after getting out of the boat, I surfaced and gasped for precious 
air while still in the white water.

When the wave let go, I had my paddle in one hand and the kayak was a few 
feet away. I did a quick paddle swim to the kayak and grabbed the bow strap 
just before another large wave broke on me. That wave ripped the kayak out of 
my hand, and when I surfaced, the kayak was gone, along with my plans to do a 
re-entry and roll, and pump out the water with the pump I kept in the kayak.

I had a long 1/4 mile swim ahead of me through surf, rip currents and a 
current pushing me fast down the coast. I knew I was going to stay warm in my 
full wetsuit and stay afloat in my PFD, and I had the paddle to make swimming 
faster, but despite pacing myself and taking short breaks, I was tiring 
quickly. When I was about halfway in, I was glad to see that Marie and Mike 
spotted me. Marie came to me, while Mike went for my kayak. I pulled myself 
up onto the back deck of Marie's white water kayak, and she towed me towards 
where Mike had my kayak. But we were getting hit by breaking waves and the 
towing was slow. Having towed swimmers in rescues myself, I knew it was slow 
and tiring. Marie grew tired but kept at it and did a great job. When we 
reached where Mike was with my kayak, we were about 40 yards off the beach 
and, thanks to the current, a half mile down the beach and in front of the 
nuclear power plant.

As Marie and I positioned the boats for a side rescue, we saw a large 
breaking wave coming down on us, and we quickly dispersed. When I surfaced, I 
saw Marie get side surfed all the way to the beach and hit the boulders at 
the waters edge with her kayak, but she was OK.

I still had a hold of the kayak and kept swimming it in, until the nasty 
beach break that was repeatedly pounding me ripped it from my hands. I did 
the paddle swim on in while watching my plastic (thank goodness) kayak 
getting cartwheeled repeatedly in the beach break.

Getting the kayak onto the beach was no easy task. Despite air bags in the 
front and back, it was full of sand and water, and felt like it weighed a 
ton. Repeatedly, as the waves washed the kayak up on the beach, I tried to 
grab a hold of it, tip it over to get the water out, and drag it up the beach 
to safety, but the waves washing back down the beach pulled it back out, and 
I ended up watching my kayak do cartwheels again. Mike landed, and together, 
he and I were able to wrestle the kayak down, tip it over to drain the water 
out, and carry it up the beach.

I was never so tired in my life.

After rehydrating and resting about a half hour, I went back out into the 
surf to regain lost confidence. However, I rode only the smaller waves on the 
inside, because I was too tired to risk another long swim.

Thank you, Marie and Mike, for the rescue!

By the way, Mike ended up having a worse day than me. Later during a landing, 
he side surfed into a concrete pole, which put a large dent in the hull of 
his plastic white water kayak, and during the incident, he let go of his 
paddle and never saw it again.

What a day in the surf at San O'!


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