Just wondering what paddles the storm and surf PWers prefer - and why. Make: Model: Straight Shaft or Bent: Length: + relevant info. to length such as paddler height / reach, boat beam, deck height at gunwale, vertical-ness of stroke, etc: I'm trying to augment my beat up Lightning (Std. Tour) with a "bomber" stick for conditions play and would greatly appreciate the input before finalizing an(other) order decision. Also, does anyone have any experience using Lendal's Mystic bladed paddle? If so, what were your thoughts on its down wave performance (short wind chop surfing)? And what length is / was the stick? Straight or Crank Shaft? How about Lendal's Kinetic XTI (WW blade) or Kinetic Touring paddles, especially in regards to conditions playing? Thanks in advance, Vince *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Just wondering what paddles the storm and surf PWers prefer - and why. > Make: Lightning > Model: Free Ride asymetric > Straight Shaft or Bent: straight > Length: 200cm- 45º offset > + relevant info. to length such as paddler height / reach, boat beam, deck height at > gunwale, vertical-ness of stroke, etc: I generally use a Superior Kayaks greenland paddle <218cm> for everything in my sea boat but heavy surf play and rock gardening. I use the short Lightning WW paddle for vertical outrigger strokes and braces. it's fast and works well. Steve Scherrer aldercreek.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Vince, I can say fit the "storm and surf PWers" mold but I've done some of both. I don't have all the detailed information on each paddle but I own them so if need be I can. They are Lendle Nordkapp and Archipelago used with my sea boat and Mania and Werner side kick with my surf and white water boats. The Nordkapp is a crank and the rest are straight shafts. I find shaft style and length is dependent on personal preference more then anything. For surf I like a short as possible straight shaft with a large paddle surface. The large surface allows a good ruder and the ability to move water quickly for catching waves. The shorter length makes it easier to switch from side to side with out catching in the water. In my option though if you really want to have fun in the surf not mater the paddle you need to be in a flat hulled boat with fins. d-ring Just wondering what paddles the storm and surf PWers prefer - and why. Make: Model: Straight Shaft or Bent: Length: + relevant info. to length such as paddler height / reach, boat beam, deck height at gunwale, vertical-ness of stroke, etc: I'm trying to augment my beat up Lightning (Std. Tour) with a "bomber" stick for conditions play and would greatly appreciate the input before finalizing an(other) order decision. Also, does anyone have any experience using Lendal's Mystic bladed paddle? If so, what were your thoughts on its down wave performance (short wind chop surfing)? And what length is / was the stick? Straight or Crank Shaft? How about Lendal's Kinetic XTI (WW blade) or Kinetic Touring paddles, especially in regards to conditions playing? Thanks in advance, Vince *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Vince, For the surf, the paddle I use depends on which kayak I use. For my whitewater kayak, I use a 200 cm Werner whitewater paddle with a feather of 45 degrees. For my sea kayak, I use my regular sea kayaking paddle, because I use surfing my sea kayak as form of rough water training, so I want to use the paddle I normally use for sea kayaking. My sea kayaking paddle is a 220 cm Werner Little Dipper with a feather of 60 degrees. All my paddles have straight shafts. I haven't tried the bent ones yet. Duane *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Vince Like Duane I also use my regular paddle as I use the surf as training for landing in surf on trips. Also the the same reason I only play in the surf in my sea kayak rather (which is probably more fun though I haven't tried it) than a WW boat. I use a Fibreglass paddle with skinny blades and unfeathered. Length is 218cm. I am thinking about changing my blades as they lack a bit of power when you want to get through the surf quickly David *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Joe Federici said: <snip> >>>> They are Lendle Nordkapp and Archipelago used with my sea boat and Mania and Werner side kick with my surf and white water boats. The Nordkapp is a crank and the rest are straight shafts. I find shaft style and length is dependent on personal preference more then anything. <<<< <snip> Joe/Vince< Those are some of the paddles I prefer. (Note correct spelling of Lendal). The Lendal Archipelago is straight-shafted with nylon yellow blades for durability and visibility. The straight-shaft is a no-nonsense affair at 60 degree feather. It is easy on the shoulders, and at 225 cm, provides good outboard support for low-stroke sea paddling in extremely high winds. My Lendal Nordkapp is straight-shafted with white nylon blades. The white actually shows up very well while I'm inverted wrestling with my native spatial limitations, and I find it the easiest to orient. It is 70 degrees for feather. I use it for sea paddling in currents, surf, tide-current interface zones, and any other invigorating marine hydraulics. A 220 cm length is a nice compromise. It has an older heavy FG shaft, and has been to hell and back. I can't say that for my newer Lendal Nordkapp with FG shaft, which didn't even survive the lake. I also have an epoxy graphite Lendal Archipelago crank-shaft (or is that a bent-shaft, or perhaps a modified shaft :-) ). I use this for fast training runs and fitness paddling. It is 70 degrees for feather. It is all black. The crank design is nicer on the wrists, but a little more difficult to use if you want to "choke-up" on the shaft. I bought a CD bent-shaft, but did not like it, and so returned it. It did have a much nicer ovalized shaft for finger indexing, which I miss. I would like to make a Greenland stick, someday. My boat is 21 wide or so. I am short-armed. I paddled for years with the big-bladded Lendal Nordkapp in high winds/storms (actual storm-force velocities) in my twenties, with a 230 cm length. Three shoulder surgeries later, and a lot of Cortisone later, I now paddle with a shorter shaft and narrower blades (usually). A 215 cm white water paddle is best in surf with a surf boat. I like a nice, uncomplicated paddle/blade for that kind of paddle-play. Your stick is your life out there -- choose wisely. Get comfortable with it before pushing any envelops. And relax that damn grip. Those wrist tendons need to last you a long time. But do be tight-fisted with your money. I've always managed to talk the price down on paddles, or waited for a sale. Having said that, they are an investment. PS I'll post my strength-training exercises and stretching routines if i get a chance this weekend. I had a number of request come in. been real busy. DL *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I've seen a number of references to storm paddling on paddlewise which has got me curious. What is the definition of a storm for paddling, Any special techniques (apart from surfing), How do you handle the strong winds, What is the best sort of kayak - equipment for it, How much whiskey must be consumed beforehand! Cheers Grant *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Whenever the wind is over 25 knots, I consider it grarly. Seas generally run 1.5 - 3 feet or MORE, anything downwindish is a hoot. Steve Scherrer aldercreek.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Dennis I think I probably use the term skinny paddle a bit loosely. I wasn't referring to a greenlander style paddle but the ones with the skinnier than normal paddle blades. I am not sure what they are called. One of my paddling friends stop using his greenlander paddle in the surf as he found it didn't have enough acceleration to get through a big surf zone. David -----Original Message----- From: Dennis, Becky & Natalie [mailto:arebecca1_at_qwest.net] Sent: Friday, 26 January 2001 12:17 PM To: Whyte, David Cc: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Storm & Surf sticks Could I get some comment on Inuit-style paddles and, particularly surf, please. I know some Lake Superior paddlers from Duluth who use a 84-90 in. by 4 in. "Greenland" paddle for EVERYTHING, including the roughest, gnarliest surf and waves. I always hear Euro-style paddlers complain the long, skinning Greenland sticks won't provide the acceleration but I haven't yet found that to be true. Comments? Thanks - Dennis in St. Paul *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>Could I get some comment on Inuit-style paddles and, particularly surf, >>please. I know some Lake Superior paddlers from Duluth who use a 84-90 >>in. by 4 in. "Greenland" paddle for EVERYTHING, including the roughest, >>gnarliest surf and waves. I always hear Euro-style paddlers complain >>the long, skinning Greenland sticks won't provide the acceleration but I >>haven't yet found that to be true. Comments? Dennis, I find that the Greenland paddle really shines in stormy weather because its behavior is neutral and very predictable, even in extremely gusty winds. To put the shoe on the other foot, in Greenland many of the old kayak men don't believe that feathered "Euro-style" paddles are safe to use in their stormy conditions. Your point of view is often colored by the gear you are accustomed to using. No one paddle design can be the "best" at everything, but quick acceleration with a Greenland stick is not a problem with proper technique, which means getting the paddle vertical, and using plenty of lower body drive and torso rotation. Also don't forget to add a "push-pull" component with your arms. I also prefer the "slant stroke" whereby the top edge of the paddle blade is tilted slightly forwards. I find that the limiting factor in accelerating and sprinting is not the paddle but my own strength and endurance. Don't make the mistake of thinking that you have to keep a Greenland paddle held low in your lap "to be authentic". In Greenland you will see a low horizontal stroke for easy touring to a high-racing stroke to every nuance in-between. I prefer a Greenland stick for all of my sea kayaking including large glassy waves from passing hurricanes to nasty dumping waves to blown-out victory-at-sea conditions. Even nice weather too. My buddies with Euro blades also play in the same conditions. So the real question is not whether or not "Euro" or Greenland equipment can handle surf and storm conditions, but whether or not you have the competency and skills with your chosen equipment to safely handle the conditions. Greg Stamer Orlando, Florida *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Greg Stamer said: <snip> <<<< I prefer a Greenland stick for all of my sea kayaking including large glassy waves from passing hurricanes to nasty dumping waves to blown-out victory-at-sea conditions. Even nice weather too. My buddies with Euro blades also play in the same conditions. So the real question is not whether or not "Euro" or Greenland equipment can handle surf and storm conditions, but whether or not you have the competency and skills with your chosen equipment to safely handle the conditions. <<<< I think Greg's comments are right on the mark. I know of trips where storm conditions came up fast and furious to over 50 knots. The Greenland stick paddler veered off, unable to keep up (don't ask me why they didn't keep together - I never did get a straight answer). The other two guys now suffer the opinion that the Greenland paddle is good for one thing only -- firewood! This is a bit unfair, as the skill and competency of the paddler in question was actually the missing part of the equation. The answer isn't blowing in the wind. By default, I would say that a europaddle, even a whitewater paddle, is best for surf work with a new paddler. Unless one is adept and experienced with the Greenland paddle, as the Greenland paddle isn't the norm for surf play. For rough water paddling, both the Greenland paddle and the eurobladded paddle have advantages and disadvantages. Much of my opinion is based on second hand info, however. One thing I did experience first hand was the Storm Island trip with two other paddlers. At the height of the gale, when seas were big and breaking (enough that we had to claw over each wave), I had enough presence of mind (as only a gonzo-demented paddler would have) to make mental notes about paddler effort. The one paddler at the front of the pack was using the bigger Nordkapp blades. He was able to power up and over the waves (at least at first it was easy enough for him). I had the smaller Archipelago blades, and had a hard time keeping up with him. I knew the trip would be tormented by wind before we left, so thought the smaller blade would be better, as I too have a Nordkapp paddle that I didn't take on purpose. Of course I was towing an incapacitated paddler, but I just couldn't dig in the way I normally would in "determination mode", which would relegate the towing as less of a drain for the good condition I was in -- at the time. I had narrow blades on my rear deck spare too. In future, I will take both a set of big blades, and a set of narrow bladed paddles, then I can switch back and forth as needed. I may even carry a greenland stick when I make one, for at least a spare ( not firewood: :-)) The paddler that was in trouble also had narrower blades. The best paddle I ever owned was an Aquabound with a wide blade, but a soft dihedral for easy shoulder comfort. It was all black however, and I felt that was not a safe paddle, so didn't replace it after loosing it. Once out at sea, ya run what ya brung. DL *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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