Yeah, that's a "C". I've got Reynaud's Syndrome --- or Phenomenon or Disease or something --- which shows up in cold weather. Circulation stops in the last one or two segments of (now up to) three fingers. They turn yellowish blue-white, and they hurt like crazy. Some sort of degenerative loss of circulation in the hand --- not uncommon. Not much in the way of treatment. Living in tropical climes is one way around it. Anyhow, I <really> noticed it on Saturday when I was out playing "first paddle" in a new Chesapeake Light Craft design on the Chesapeake Bay --- air and water temps both at about 37 degrees F. So I decided to do something about it, and went to two local dive shops. Gotta be something around for divers, right? And there was --- were --- two solutions: a fleece-lined pull-on "dry glove" with its own wrist seal for only $102 the pair (and in highly fashionable international orange, to boot), and drysuit integrated gloves with stiff ring seals, one in the glove, the other for the drysuit wrist --- and these only $225 for the gloves and mating hardware and $50 for installation of the system in my Kokatat. So, Plan B. Does anybody have experience in fastening, gluing and sealing neoprene to latex? I figure I could take a set of spare latex wrist seals and lash them onto a pair of unused neoprene gloves and save about $80! Or $300, depending on how you look at it. I figure they could be attached like wrist seals on a drysuit --- but would Aquaseal or something like it hold on neoprene as well as it does on latex? Any thoughts most welcome. I'm anxious to figure out some way of paddling in insanely cold weather without having my typing yipokm pit ptp [ew k. Jack "Pegfinger" Martin, currently a list-lurker *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hey Jack: You need to find a good vascular surgeon or at least a sports medicine physician, and get a referral to a decent vascular lab, before you start labeling yourself or letting others label you with Raynaud's whatevers., or permitting an Internist to diagnose Raynauds. If you don't use tobacco, have lupus,diabetes, cardiac disease, take blood pressure meds, have any auto-immune diseases, and are not using any beta-blockers, then (digit) skin-changes solely related to cold-weather are due to vasospasm, and should affect all digits. If you don't have some systemic disease, or auto-immune pathology , then skin changes localized to certain digits in the hand is more likely to be due to exercise-related stress on one of the two arteries that traverse the wrist., and are subject to trauma with certain forms of vigourous activity. ( hey.. do you bend your wrist when you paddle ?~G~) Raynaud's is almost always bilateral (in the hands), and ALWAYS (I hate that word) affects all five digits. If the color changes you notice affect only the 3rd /4th/5th digit there is something wrong with the ulnar artery which supplies those digits. The radial artery supplies the thumb, index finger, and part of the middle finger. Furthermore both arteries are linked in the hand with a deep and superficial palmar arch, which provides a good collateral flow even if one artery is interrupted. ( Which is why the radial artery is often "harvested " for used in for coronary artery bypass grafts, without significant loss of blood flow to the hand.) Unfortunately the palmar arches are not complete in many people.) There are several dirt cheap Doppler tests that can demonstrate the patency of the palmar arches. (Allan's test.) Before anyone can claim that finger discoloration is due to Raynaud's they must prove the symptoms do not match the anatomic distribution of the arteries which supply the hand. ( ie: it is vasospastic which effects all the digital arteries, not just the ulnar or radial side.) There are many "use" syndromes associated with vigorous exercise. ( a 20 year-old hard-core bicyclist doing 250 m/wk training can develop symptoms which mimic advanced arterial disease of the legs, while the underlying cause is compression of the iliac arteries by the narrow seat.) Both a kayak paddle, and the pear-shaped canoe paddle handle can cause sufficient flexion/extension to one of the wrist arteries to cause the arterial injury. As can subclavian artery aneurysms associated with an extra cervical rib, You should, at the least see a sports medicine physician. And here is a clue: "Ask them if they are familiar with hypothenar hammer syndrome". If they laugh at you, and say, "Yes, where did you hear of that?"., then you will know that your hands are in the best of hands. Don't take my word for it try the hypothenar hammer test.!!!! Rich Dempsey RDMS/RVT ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ See our canoe tripping website http://communities.msn.com/RichWendysAwayFromHomePage ----- Original Message ----- From: <JCMARTIN43_at_aol.com> > Yeah, that's a "C". I've got Reynaud's Syndrome --- or Phenomenon or Disease > or something --- which shows up in cold weather. Circulation stops in the > last one or two segments of (now up to) three fingers. They turn yellowish > blue-white, and they hurt like crazy. Some sort of degenerative loss of > circulation in the hand --- not uncommon. Not much in the way of treatment. > Living in tropical climes is one way around it. > > Anyhow, I <really> noticed it on Saturday when I was out playing "first > paddle" in a new Chesapeake Light Craft design on the Chesapeake Bay --- air > and water temps both at about 37 degrees F. So I decided to do something > about it, and went to two local dive shops. Gotta be something around for > divers, right? And there was --- were --- two solutions: a fleece-lined > pull-on "dry glove" with its own wrist seal for only $102 the pair (and in > highly fashionable international orange, to boot), and drysuit integrated > gloves with stiff ring seals, one in the glove, the other for the drysuit > wrist --- and these only $225 for the gloves and mating hardware and $50 for > installation of the system in my Kokatat. So, Plan B. > > Does anybody have experience in fastening, gluing and sealing neoprene to > latex? I figure I could take a set of spare latex wrist seals and lash them > onto a pair of unused neoprene gloves and save about $80! Or $300, depending > on how you look at it. I figure they could be attached like wrist seals on a > drysuit --- but would Aquaseal or something like it hold on neoprene as well > as it does on latex? > > Any thoughts most welcome. I'm anxious to figure out some way of paddling in > insanely cold weather without having my typing yipokm pit ptp [ew k. > > Jack "Pegfinger" Martin, currently a list-lurker > > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. 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Hey Rich - can you explain the hypothenar hammer test a bit? I'm really interested, because my daughter has had what we've always considered to be Reynaud's since she was little. She has no other diseases or conditions, but her hands and feet have always gotten really really cold, even when it doesn't seem to be that cold out - and when I say always, I mean since infancy. Incidentally, what's "RDMS/RVT" stand for? Joan > Don't take my word for it try the hypothenar hammer test.!!!! > > Rich Dempsey RDMS/RVT > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Joan: [ Hypothenar Hammer Syndrome : It is a litmus test. If your physician laughs at you, things are fine. If they seem confused, if their brows become knitted, and their face puckered, then you are looking at storm flags.] It is an obscure occupational injury /syndrome , mostly affecting working class males who use the outside of the palm of their hand (pinky side), as a hammer to pound, push or twist things into place. It compresses the ulnar artery against the wrist bones, leading to arterial damage and aneurysm formation. The aneurysm collects "debris", which is periodically "showered" down to the fingers supplied by the ulnar artery. The tips of the of 4th and 5th finger turn colors, as they are embolized (blue-black) but often improve over a few days. I once had the misfortune of participating in a Persantin-stress test on some young corn-fed hunk farmer in Illinois, for Raynauds. ( at the Carle Clinic in Urbana IL) The test (mostly the cost of the drug Persantine) was over $2K). Because the physician ordered this test, I was a helpless participant in it. I remember feeling this guy's hand, and the heavy callous on the little finger side, and I knew what the problem was, but was swept along with the test, like being sucked into a rapid. The Persantine-stress test was normal. Afterwards, after this expensive test, over the objections of my co-workers, I used ultrasound to image his ulnar artery, and found an aneurysm there, which was filled with debris, which was causing the systems in his 3rd/4th/5th digits. The vascular surgeon agreed. The case "won my spurs" there at this prestigious Clinic, but I left 2 weeks later , figuring that if some one as stupid as me, could figure out something as obvious as this, then there was an abyss there that I would never be able straddle without pissing people off left and right. It also earned me the moniker of " Mr WiseAss." My comment about the hypothenar hammer "test," was meant to communicate that the physician who says "huh?" when you say "hypothenar hammer syndrome" , is unworthy to touch your hand. Whereas as the physician who laughs, and says "Where did you ever hear of that? , in my 20 years of practice , I 've seen just 2 cases", is worth your time, and money. It is a litmus test. If they laugh at you things are fine. If they seem confused, if their brows become knitted, then you are looking at storm flags. Find a better physician. ----- Original Message ----- From: <volinjo_at_juno.com> To: <RiDem_at_email.msn.com> Cc: <JCMARTIN43_at_aol.com>; <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 11:20 PM Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Coldfinger > Hey Rich - can you explain the hypothenar hammer test a bit? I'm really > interested, because my daughter has had what we've always considered to > be Reynaud's since she was little. She has no other diseases or > conditions, but her hands and feet have always gotten really really cold, > even when it doesn't seem to be that cold out - and when I say always, I > mean since infancy. > > Incidentally, what's "RDMS/RVT" stand for? > > Joan > > > > Don't take my word for it try the hypothenar hammer test.!!!! > > > > Rich Dempsey RDMS/RVT > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hi Jack-- You bet, Aquaseal sticks very well to neoprene. Many neoprene wader manufacturers package it with their waders for repairs, and I've seen more than a few whitewater neo skirts patched up from inevitable rock tears with Aquaseal. I love the dryglove idea--now why didn't I think of that?! Aquaseal will make the neoprene less-stretchy where it's glued--it sort of "binds up" the nylon knit face, so you can expect it to only stretch about half as much. Find gloves that don't have tight cuffs to begin with. Shawn Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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