Last Fall, I made a few posts regarding book resources for learning navigation. Got some good responses - THANKS! My wife asked me not to follow up on it until March, and she'd work it into my birthday list (my Christmas list was already full :-) ). So, I've given her the names of the books, and know she's asking about what features to look for in a "middle of the road" compass. I've seen some over $100 and some "toys" for as little as $5-6. What should I be looking for in terms of brands, features, etc.? I'm looking for a hand held version that can be used for both Kayaking and Hiking, as opposed to a deck mounted compass for the Kayak. I haven't needed one for hiking in the past because I've mainly been in areas with decently travelled and marked trails, but the more I get into it, the more I want to venture out into some "wilderness". I'm sure you can relate....... So, what's your opinion? What are the "must have", "nice to have" and "useless" features? Rick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Rick, I have a Silva brand compass, I think it is the Ranger model. Look for the ability to change the declination, a mirror, clear plastic base, measuments that are on the same scale as topo maps, and a moveable heading/bearing wheel. Ok, so that last one is not very discriptive! 8-) Make sure that the "wheel" that holds the bearing, N, S, E W , etc can rotate in the compass. This allows you to set a bearing on the compass. A mirror helps locate a bearing in the distance by looking out while being able to look down at the compass via the mirror. A clear base helps so you can set the compass on a topo map to setup figure out bearings and distance. I took a simple compass course years ago at a state park taught by one of the rangers. We did some very simple games using bearings and distance. Very simple in concept but it could be hard in practice. I started using the compass and a very detailed map of a local park to walk off trail. I would setup up points to hit, figure out a bearing and see how close I came. I was impressed out how accurate this could be. One of the valuable lessons in the class was figuring out how much distance you cover in a pace. A pace is two steps. We walked back and forth over a known distance to figure out this measurement. Once you know your pace, a map and compass or very powerful tools. I use the pace all the time on the property I bought. Its unreal how often I need to know a distance when I don't have a ruler or tape. But I can pace it off pretty accurately. Another thing that comes in handy for hiking are "ranger beads." These are just beads on a string that you can move to keep tract of the number of paces you have walked. The class used very simple games that I pretty sure came in the Silva compass manuals. I would think any decent land navigation book would have such games. Hmmm, there is a website, http://www.adtdl.army.mil/atdls.htm, with the US Army manuals. I have not looked to see if they have any land navigation manuals but I they seem to have everything else. You might want to search the site and see what you can find. The games were simple tasks. The ranger laid out a line on a bearing that had distance marked out evenly and number from 1 to n. He had courses discriptions setup on cards. Start at point 3, walk 33 feet on a bearing of 193 degrees. You would get to this point and follow the next bearing and distance. At the end of the card you should be back at point 3 or some other point. If you were supposed to be at 3 and ended up at 4. You made a mistake. Simple tasks but you had to be able to pace the distance and follow a bearing. Kinda fun to! 8-) I have a compass for the kayak but I forgot the brand name. It can be deckmounted or handheld to take bearings. I really have no need for the kayak compass but it fun to practice holding bearings. Some day I might need the skill.... Hope this helps.... Dan McCarty *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I would skip the part about looking for a compass with adjustable declination/ variation. We teach boaters to NEVER use this feature as it will be a different bearing than the Marine compass on your deck, with no adjustment options. Don't get confused, don't adjust variation on the compass. just 2 centavos. Steve Scherrer www.aldercreek.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
As with other sea kayaking equipment considerations, you quickly find that when you are on the water you need your hands on the paddle. A deck mounted compass is really the best answer, with an orienteering type flat compass for course plotting on land, and as a spare. I have a Silva deck compass, model "58F Kayak" similar to the Suunto Orca, mounted with bungy cords. This has been very good, easy to read. See it at http://www.silva.se/marine/index.htm It's good to have the compass removable when not needed. This saves damage and theft. Regards, Peter Treby 37ş 42' S 145ş 08' E *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> What should I be looking for in terms of brands, features, etc.? I'm > looking for a hand held version that can be used for both Kayaking and > Hiking, as opposed to a deck mounted compass for the Kayak. I haven't > needed one for hiking in the past because I've mainly been in areas with > decently travelled and marked trails, but the more I get into it, the more I > want to venture out into some "wilderness". I'm sure you can relate....... Peter Treby wrote: > > As with other sea kayaking equipment considerations, you quickly find that > when you are on the water you need your hands on the paddle. A deck mounted > compass is really the best answer, with an orienteering type flat compass > for course plotting on land, and as a spare. > I have a Silva deck compass, model "58F Kayak" similar to the Suunto Orca, > mounted with bungy cords. This has been very good, easy to read. See it at > http://www.silva.se/marine/index.htm > It's good to have the compass removable when not needed. This saves damage > and theft. > I will have to take the agree/disagree with both of the postings, both of the compasses are useful and have different purposes. The hand held facilitates taking bearings from the kayak, generally from 2 points anywhere from a 360 degree axis of the paddler. This may be done with a deck compass, but is very cumbersome having to rotate and point your bow. The deck compass is useful for following a bearing once it is ascertained by examining the calculated readings of the handheld and referencing them from your chart. You can probably use the handheld for this, but the degree of error would be much greater. RAy Killan put out and excellent series last year in Anorak on kayak navigation, and is compiling it for a small book- also does workshops. May want to contact him at http://members.aol.com/kayakillen/katabasis/ .I enjoyed Burch, which is quite in depth and interesting, but the articles that Ray wrote are far easier for most to understand it seems. I thought it extremely clear and well written. I find that a compass with a rotating bezel, reasonably large clear plexi rectangular (important) base (c thru compass), liquid dampened works just peachy for me. Cost around 15-20 bucks US. Luxury is one of those military bearing compasses with the wire for bearing only, but you still need the other for transferring data to the chart. BTW, I expect no financial compensation for the influence of selling any of Ray's books, but I admit most of the stuff I learned about navigation is from him. and also, if it is possible, a landmark is a better target to aim at after you adjust the bearing from the deck compass- better to avoid seasickness and the math needed to compensate for shifts on the compass. this may be a problem open water or poor visibility. regards, gabriel -- Gabriel L Romeu http://studiofurniture.com İİİİİ furniture from the workshop http://studiofurniture.com/diary İİİİİ life as a tourist, daily journal http://studiofurniture.com/paint İİİİİ paintings, photographs, etchings, objects *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I agree with Peter about deck mounting and removable but another important point is try and have your deck mounted compass as far forward as your eyesight will allow. This makes it much easier to be glancing at your compass while still paddling towards a bearing. Its also easier to take a bearing with it well forwards. Mine (Sailor II) has very large numbers (drops off the last digit IE 270 is just 27) and is a long way forward. David *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
A Nexus (Silva) 70UN is a hand bearing compass that fits in a socket mount. The card is suspended in a globe. The UNE has a light. It is readable, precision made and can be corrected for deviation. While ashore it can be used to take accurate line of sight readings. I've used one for years. They're available from West Marine and cost about $80-$100. Sid *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I agree. A deck compass is a must for sea kayaking. A flat, orienteering compass, though, is useful for plotting a course on water as well as on land. I use an inexpensive Silva III, which slips easily into a PFD pocket. Use the orienteering compass to determine your course, and the deck compass to follow it. Note also that some people say that looking down at an orienteering compass in rough water can lead to seasickness -- another reason to have a deck compass. Chuck Holst -----Original Message----- From: Peter Treby [SMTP:ptreby_at_ozemail.com.au] Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 4:26 PM To: 'Rick Sylvia'; Paddlewise (E-mail) Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Compasses As with other sea kayaking equipment considerations, you quickly find that when you are on the water you need your hands on the paddle. A deck mounted compass is really the best answer, with an orienteering type flat compass for course plotting on land, and as a spare. I have a Silva deck compass, model "58F Kayak" similar to the Suunto Orca, mounted with bungy cords. This has been very good, easy to read. See it at http://www.silva.se/marine/index.htm It's good to have the compass removable when not needed. This saves damage and theft. Regards, Peter Treby 37o 42' S 145o 08' E *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Don't confuse declination and variation (difference with magnetic north on land and sea, respectively) with deviation which is error attributable to local interference from ferrous or nickel or electromagnetic objects in the proximity of the mounted compass such as a radio or speargun etc. I always navigate using magnetic north as indicated on the compass-rose on a chart. Sid Taylor -----Original Message----- From: Steve Scherrer <Flatpick_at_teleport.com> To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Dan McCarty <dmccarty_at_us.ibm.com> Date: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 8:35 AM Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Compasses >I would skip the part about looking for a compass with adjustable >declination/ variation. We teach boaters to NEVER use this feature as it >will be a different bearing than the Marine compass on your deck, with no >adjustment options. Don't get confused, don't adjust variation on the >compass. > >just 2 centavos. > >Steve Scherrer >www.aldercreek.com > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>> Steve Scherrer wrote: > I would skip the part about looking for a compass with adjustable > declination/ variation. We teach boaters to NEVER use this feature as it > will be a different bearing than the Marine compass on your deck, with no > adjustment options. Don't get confused, don't adjust variation on the > compass. I would absolutely agree with this statement with one exception. I have spent many years in the backcountry with USGS maps and also do a fair amount of land surveying in my business and career, I also own a number of different compasses and other devices for overland navigation. It is almost impossible to prevent inadvertent errors when using magnetic compasses without an declination adjustment on the compass when doing overland navigation. So if you intend to use your hand held compass for backpacking or route find inland then you must have a declination adjustment. I would almost say it is mandatory if you do any serious backcountry overland travel. When I learned about nautical navigation I was surprised to learn that there is no need to ever concern yourself with declination because the charts are all set up be able to use magnetic north exclusively (perhaps the USGS who makes the land maps could learn something from the nautical charts). If you never intend to use the hand held compass for land navigation then absolutely you do not need or want to worry about declination, it would only serve to confuse you. Especially in far North locations where the declination is very large. In my business every time I have to explain magnetic North to trainees I always get a lot of confused looks. It is actually not that easy for most people to visualize whether you add or subtract the declination when going back and forth from the map to the compass. FYI you do not use a magnetic compass for land surveying but often on remote properties we have to dead reckon to locate monuments or reface markers, or even find the property we are supposed to survey. Without the ability to locate a surveyed reference point the rest of your work is of questionable value. Unfortunately the inexpensive GPS units do not have nearly the accuracy you need to find a small metal marker in heavily overgrown forests, so very accurate navigation become essential to locate them. Peter *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Peter Chopelas wrote, <snippity> > When I learned about nautical navigation I was surprised to learn that > there is no need to ever concern yourself with declination because the > charts are all set up be able to use magnetic north exclusively (perhaps > the USGS who makes the land maps could learn something from the nautical > charts). If you never intend to use the hand held compass for land > navigation then absolutely you do not need or want to worry about > declination, it would only serve to confuse you. Would you explain your reasoning further, Peter? I know that the compass rose on a nautical chart shows both true and magnetic, but the hash lines (?) on these charts are aligned to true north/south, east/west. So it seems to me that one has to pay close attention to variation on a nautical chart. Of course, if you have a Nav-Aid, everything is much easier (I have no connection with the good Dr. Sutherland). Bob V *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>Peter Chopelas wrote, > ><snippity> >> When I learned about nautical navigation I was surprised to learn that >> there is no need to ever concern yourself with declination because the >> charts are all set up be able to use magnetic north exclusively I think that depends upon the age of your charts and the amount of change in declination that occurs each year in the area you are paddling. Greg Welker Current Designs Pisces, with sail rig CLC Cape Charles modified West Wight Potter 19, #448 "Wight Magic" "Good seamanship is using superior judgment to prevent the need to use superior skills." *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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