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From: Joshua Teitelbaum <teitelba_at_post.tau.ac.il>
subject: [Paddlewise] Whitewater vs. Surf boats
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 11:53:06 +0200
Dear Friends:

Now that my Romany Explorer is on its way from Wales, my thoughts are 
turning to surf kayaks.  I love surfing the Romany, but I would like a 
dedicated kayak for surf.  I've looked at a lot of web pages, and it seems 
that a lot of WW kayaks double as surf kayaks.  Are they in fact 
different?  Here in the holy land I think I can get Prijon, Pyranha, and 
perhaps Mega.  Can anyone point to specific models worth investigating?

As for skill level, I can surf the Romany Explorer pretty well, but I'm at 
the "boy, I can surf without capsizing!" stage and do not really maneuver 
the thing.  I've tried a bathtub sit-on-top (JetSurf?) and had trouble 
getting out through the waves.  I basically hated the thing, but I was cold 
and tired.  The seating position killed my tailbone, too.  Anyway, I'll go 
for a closed-deck surf boat.

Josh




==============================================================================
Dr. Joshua Teitelbaum, Research Fellow               Tel: [972] 3-640-6448
Moshe Dayan Center for Middle Eastern and        Fax: [972] 3-641-5802
   African Studies
Tel Aviv University
Ramat Aviv, Tel Aviv 69978  Israel
E-mail:teitelba_at_post.tau.ac.il
www.dayan.org
==============================================================================

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From: Craig MacKinnon <elroca_at_earthlink.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Whitewater vs. Surf boats
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 14:07:10 -0500
In addition to what you pick up from paddlewise, you may want to try Boater
Talk Forums at http://discuss.boatertalk.com/; check out the Surf Zone and
Whitewater General Discussion. Members of these groups regularly review
different surf specific craft and more generalized boats. Here is a link to
some surf kayak reviews http://www.mindspring.com/~stowehol/boats.htm.
Another link for reviews: http://paddling.net/Reviews/Kayaks.phtml .

Good luck and enjoy,

Craig

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joshua Teitelbaum" <teitelba_at_post.tau.ac.il>
To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 4:53 AM
Subject: [Paddlewise] Whitewater vs. Surf boats


> Dear Friends:
>
> Now that my Romany Explorer is on its way from Wales, my thoughts are
> turning to surf kayaks.  I love surfing the Romany, but I would like a
> dedicated kayak for surf.  I've looked at a lot of web pages, and it seems
> that a lot of WW kayaks double as surf kayaks.  Are they in fact
> different?  Here in the holy land I think I can get Prijon, Pyranha, and
> perhaps Mega.  Can anyone point to specific models worth investigating?
>
Snip


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From: Joe Federici <fedo_at_hudsonet.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Whitewater vs. Surf boats
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 21:00:10 -0500
I've paddled a Riot bogie. It's one of the few surf only plastic 
boats I've seen. Pyranha  is going to release one mid year and I've 
seen photos but that's it. I've heard it's going to have retractable 
fins. What every you go with fins will make carving easier and I 
would recommend them.
If you looking for high end check out PS Composites. They make the Mako
http://www.customkayak.com/html/mako_surf_kayaks.html

JFF

>Dear Friends:
>
>Now that my Romany Explorer is on its way from Wales, my thoughts 
>are turning to surf kayaks.  I love surfing the Romany, but I would 
>like a dedicated kayak for surf.  I've looked at a lot of web pages, 
>and it seems that a lot of WW kayaks double as surf kayaks.  Are 
>they in fact different?  Here in the holy land I think I can get 
>Prijon, Pyranha, and perhaps Mega.  Can anyone point to specific 
>models worth investigating?
>
>As for skill level, I can surf the Romany Explorer pretty well, but 
>I'm at the "boy, I can surf without capsizing!" stage and do not 
>really maneuver the thing.  I've tried a bathtub sit-on-top 
>(JetSurf?) and had trouble getting out through the waves.  I 
>basically hated the thing, but I was cold and tired.  The seating 
>position killed my tailbone, too.  Anyway, I'll go for a closed-deck 
>surf boat.
>
>Josh
>
>
>
>
>==============================================================================
>Dr. Joshua Teitelbaum, Research Fellow               Tel: [972] 3-640-6448
>Moshe Dayan Center for Middle Eastern and        Fax: [972] 3-641-5802
>   African Studies
>Tel Aviv University
>Ramat Aviv, Tel Aviv 69978  Israel
>E-mail:teitelba_at_post.tau.ac.il
>www.dayan.org
>==============================================================================
>
>***************************************************************************
>PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
>here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
>responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
>Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
>Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
>Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
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From: <KiAyker_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Whitewater vs. Surf boats
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 08:10:54 EST
> Now that my Romany Explorer is on its way from Wales, my thoughts are 
> turning to surf kayaks.  I love surfing the Romany, but I would like a 
> dedicated kayak for surf.  I've looked at a lot of web pages, and it seems 
> that a lot of WW kayaks double as surf kayaks.  Are they in fact 
> different?  Here in the holy land I think I can get Prijon, Pyranha, and 
> perhaps Mega.  Can anyone point to specific models worth investigating?
> 

   I guess a lot of this depends on what kind of surfing you want to do. It 
would appear that you are looking for more performance then your Romany. 
Virtually any smaller white water boat will offer this. One of my favorite 
surf boats is an old Perception Saber, which is no longer made. I get a lot 
of abuse from other paddlers about my choice of boat, but I don't care, I 
like it. 
   Of course if you want to compete, or just really do some major shredding, 
then you'll want to look at something along the lines of a wave ski, or a 
surf kayak, which is really little more then a wave ski with a cockpit. These 
are designed like surf boards and can be really wild on a wave once you get 
used to it.
   As for which is the best, well, I know paddle craft surfers who are 
continually going through boats in search of the perfect ride. I've surfed 
just about everything I can get my hands on and I can tell you that it's all 
fun and challenging. But I guess I'm not the purist that some of these other 
surf rats are.

Scott
So.Cal.

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From: Joshua Teitelbaum <teitelba_at_post.tau.ac.il>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Whitewater vs. Surf boats
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 11:34:56 +0200
Very informative, Scott.  Thanks!  Through my reading I've finally found 
out the difference between the wave ski and the surf kayak, and learning 
the surfer talk, like "shredding," and "dropping in."  I think I will go 
for a closed-top surf kayak, one with a "planing hull."  The Riot Boogie 
(http://www.riotkayaks.com/riot/pages/f_kayak.html) looks really good, and 
I await the Pyranha surf kayak.

At 15:10 13/03/01, KiAyker_at_aol.com wrote:
>    I guess a lot of this depends on what kind of surfing you want to do. It
>would appear that you are looking for more performance then your Romany.
>Virtually any smaller white water boat will offer this. One of my favorite
>surf boats is an old Perception Saber, which is no longer made. I get a lot
>of abuse from other paddlers about my choice of boat, but I don't care, I
>like it.
>    Of course if you want to compete, or just really do some major shredding,
>then you'll want to look at something along the lines of a wave ski, or a
>surf kayak, which is really little more then a wave ski with a cockpit. These
>are designed like surf boards and can be really wild on a wave once you get
>used to it.

==============================================================================
Dr. Joshua Teitelbaum, Research Fellow               Tel: [972] 3-640-6448
Moshe Dayan Center for Middle Eastern and        Fax: [972] 3-641-5802
   African Studies
Tel Aviv University
Ramat Aviv, Tel Aviv 69978  Israel
E-mail:teitelba_at_post.tau.ac.il
www.dayan.org
==============================================================================
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here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
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From: Kevin Whilden <kevin_at_yourplanetearth.org>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Whitewater vs. Surf boats
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 10:21:07 -0800
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joshua Teitelbaum" <teitelba_at_post.tau.ac.il>
To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 1:53 AM
Subject: [Paddlewise] Whitewater vs. Surf boats


> Dear Friends:
>
> Now that my Romany Explorer is on its way from Wales, my thoughts are
> turning to surf kayaks.  I love surfing the Romany, but I would like a
> dedicated kayak for surf.  I've looked at a lot of web pages, and it seems
> that a lot of WW kayaks double as surf kayaks.  Are they in fact
> different?

Yes, whitewater boats have moderate amount of rocker front and back, so that
they can be used on a river. Surf kayaks have very little rocker in the back
for maximum speed on a wave face, and huge amounts of rocker in the front to
prevent perling when dropping in. Surf kayaks also tend to have very flat
bottoms and sharp rails, which enhance carving and spinning but would be
absolute hell on an eddyline in a river. Surf kayaks also have very low
volume sterns, with the entire back deck often being submerged when sitting
in flatwater. This is a bitch for paddling, but heaven on wave face.

There is no doubt that surf kayaks elevate to a high level of performance on
the wave compared to even the best whitewater kayak. But surf kayaks are
also somewhat demanding of skill and perhaps not the best for someone
learning to surf -- that depends on your determination and aggressiveness.
Whitewater kayaks are more forgiving for beginners, but somewhat limiting in
terms of performance. That being said, there are plenty of people who never
experience this limitation, as your skill has to reach a certain level
first. This skill includes knowing how to read a wave and carve down the
line. I doubt it would be easy to learn this essential skill in a slow
whitewater boat.

As far as British kayaks go, I have owned a Mega Jester Rio, which is an
excellent surfing specific craft... probably one of the best Internation
Class surf boats made. A friend has the Mega Xta-C, which is also an
excellent boat and probably pretty good for a beginner. I have also owned
the Pyranha Inazone 240 whitewater boat, which is really quite good in the
surf. If you decide to go for a whitewater boat, get an Inazone for a great
compromise of surfability and forgiveness. Still, it doesn't compare to a
real surf kayak. If you want something surf specific, the two Mega boats I
mentioned are probably your best bet. The new Pyranha surf kayak coming out
later this year may be an option if you are very agressive and want to learn
high-performance surfing no matter how painful at first.

I currently am between surf kayaks, though I am using an excellent
compromize... a Riot Prankster, which is whitewater boat but with the option
of screwing in plastic fins for the surf. They really make a wonderful
difference in carving and down-the-line speed over non-finned whitewater
kayaks. I think all Riot playboats have this feature as standard now, and it
is a great compromise.

Here in the holy land I think I can get Prijon, Pyranha, and
> perhaps Mega.  Can anyone point to specific models worth investigating?
>
> As for skill level, I can surf the Romany Explorer pretty well, but I'm at
> the "boy, I can surf without capsizing!" stage and do not really maneuver
> the thing.  I've tried a bathtub sit-on-top (JetSurf?) and had trouble
> getting out through the waves.  I basically hated the thing, but I was
cold
> and tired.  The seating position killed my tailbone, too.  Anyway, I'll go
> for a closed-deck surf boat.
>

yeah go with closed deck, unless you really do not want to learn to roll.
There are some nice surfing sit-on-tops available these days though.

Cheers,
Kevin

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