It's been brought to my attention that my recent post about Cafe Press and my use of them may have stepped over the line into what constitutes a commercial posting. For this, my humble apologies. I should have considered this more carefully. -- mike --------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Edelman mje_at_spamcop.net http://www.foldingkayaks.org (nomadics) http://www.findascope.com (choosing a telescope) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Awh, come on Jackie, it's not as though Mike Edelman is getting rich selling www.foldingkayaks.org memorabilia through PW as a commercial undertaking. I doubt that he even nets enough to defray the costs associated with keeping his excellent website running! PW T-shirts weren't free either, but no-one would have called their "marketing" on this list a "commercial undertaking". Yes, that was a project in the direct interests of some of the list members (I was among them) and is not a direct parallel (although so is Mike's website something of great interest to some of the list members!) and yes, you have to draw the line somewhere and cannot allow grey areas ... .. how about discussing this topic some more to give Mike and his www.foldingkayaks.org memorabilia the publicity he needs without actually running a "commercial" by the only interested party: Mike Edleman himself (and Mike, I'll be expecting your commission offer off list now that I've written this as a heretofore non-interested party!!) ;-) Best regards, Ralph Ralph C. Hoehn Ralph_at_PouchBoats.com www.PouchBoats.com In a message dated Wed, 25 Apr 2001 1:10:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Michael Edelman <mje_at_spamcop.net> writes: << It's been brought to my attention that my recent post about Cafe Press and my use of them may have stepped over the line into what constitutes a commercial posting. For this, my humble apologies. I should have considered this more carefully. -- mike -------------------------------------------------------- Michael Edelman mje_at_spamcop.net http://www.foldingkayaks.org (nomadics) http://www.findascope.com (choosing a telescope) *************************************************** >> *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> From: FoldingBoats_at_aol.com > Awh, come on Jackie, it's not as though Mike Edelman is getting rich > selling I honestly don't know anyone in the paddling industry that is getting rich off the business. The policy says no commercial postings. The items promoted are being sold at a profit. I am not going to be placed in the position of deciding how much profit is acceptable and how much is not for items/services to be promoted on PaddleWise. > PW T-shirts weren't free either, They also were not sold at a profit. The folks that brought you the t-shirts did so at their cost and made no money from those t-shirts. I as well as other PaddleWisers appreciate the volunteer effort on their part and the trouble they went through to make that happen (some folks placed orders and never paid for the sirts, I am told :-/. > .. how about discussing this topic some more It's not an easy task to maintain the list and keep it commercial free. However, the policy is clear. Anyone on PaddleWise is free to point us to their personal website (as long as it isn't a commercial promotion). Commercial prommotion is against list policy. This policy is an original list-policy and is not debatable. PaddleWise will remain commercial free as long as I maintain the list. There are plenty of forums available for commercial posts. Jackie list-owner *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
From: "Jackie Fenton" <jackie_at_intelenet.net> > > From: FoldingBoats_at_aol.com > > > Awh, come on Jackie, it's not as though Mike Edelman is getting rich > > selling I feel we have to abide by Jackie's ruling on this. It is totally her call. > > PW T-shirts weren't free either, > > They also were not sold at a profit. The folks that brought you the > t-shirts did so at their cost and made no money from those t-shirts. > I as well as other PaddleWisers appreciate the volunteer effort on > their part and the trouble they went through to make that happen (some > folks placed orders and never paid for the sirts, I am told :-/. For the record, Bill Leonhardt who arranged the Paddlewise shirts, took the excess funds he had from the sale of the t-shirts and donated it in to various local non-profits. I was there when he handed an envelop to Jim Wetteroth who runs the Downtown Boathouse. Bill claims there was a check in the envelop, not old discarded lottery tickets, and I believe him :-) Seriously, it was a check for a nice amount, enough to make Jim smile, something he seldom does. I forget who the rest of the excess went to. Bill's was a very generous move and it was totally in keeping with the underlying principle of Paddlewise. The Downtown Boathouse was a worthy recipient since it does a totally free public kayaking program and supports so many local efforts such as swims and hosts through Hudson Watertrail paddlers, etc. ralph diaz *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I agree with Jackie. It is not an easy task to keep a forum like this operating smoothly. I have several forums which I try to keep relatively commercial free. Some messages skirt the line and if you let them go too far, things can get out of hand. I ended up having to ban someone for straying too far from the guidelines for behavior I ask people to live by. I may not have had to kick him off if I had been more stringent about enforcement. I really didn't want to have to resort to banning as it detracts from the whole goal of my forum. But, as former readers of wavelength will remember, one individual who wants to flaunt good behavior can ruin the whole forum. Keep it up Jackie. It is your list and you have the right to set and enforce the rules as you choose. You have good reasons for rules and they are a large part about why a lot of us read this list. If people don't like them they can create their own forum with their own rules as you did when wavelength got out of hand. I sympathize with the task, it is generally thankless. Thanks, Nick > > .. how about discussing this topic some more > >It's not an easy task to maintain the list and keep it commercial free. >However, the policy is clear. Anyone on PaddleWise is free to point us >to their personal website (as long as it isn't a commercial promotion). >Commercial prommotion is against list policy. > >This policy is an original list-policy and is not debatable. PaddleWise >will remain commercial free as long as I maintain the list. There are >plenty of forums available for commercial posts. > -- Nick Schade Guillemot Kayaks 824 Thompson St Glastonbury, CT 06033 (860) 659-8847 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 4/25/01 7:16:52 PM, schade_at_guillemot-kayaks.com writes: << I agree with Jackie. It is not an easy task to keep a forum like this operating smoothly. >> I'm going to go with Nick and Jackie on this. One nice thing about aol is that they are good at responding to spam. I send EVERY direct piece to TOSSPAM for aol to deal with. So far not one repeat in 10 years <G>. In fact, I run into it so infrequently that when things smack of attempts to get me to spend my money on stuff I'm totally uninterested in, I react. I didn't in this case, the humble approach got me <G>, but KNEW Jackie would. I love all the paddling sites and I'm a gear freak so just about anything that has to do with kayaking I'll at least look at. I didn't have time to look at this, though I have planned to. It is just that the presence of sales pitches feels so foreign here. It is jarring. I know full well members sneak in plugs for what they do and I have bought things from people on this list who have done it. For me it needs to stay below the horizon. Joan *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> From: "ralph diaz" <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com> > > > From: FoldingBoats_at_aol.com > > > > > Awh, come on Jackie, it's not as though Mike Edelman is getting rich > > > selling > > I feel we have to abide by Jackie's ruling on this. It is totally her call. Actually, that ruling isn't mine (at least, not mine alone). It was a promise I made to the paddling community that came here from elsewhere and *the* reason most signed on to PaddleWise... to leave the atmosphere of commercial promotion (Tim Ingram - though I'm not comparing Mike's posting with Ingram at all... only explaining the origin of the rule and risk of opening that door 8-}. > > > PW T-shirts weren't free either, > > > > They also were not sold at a profit. The folks that brought you the > > t-shirts did so at their cost and made no money from those t-shirts. <snip> > For the record, Bill Leonhardt who arranged the Paddlewise shirts, took the > excess funds he had from the sale of the t-shirts and donated it in to > various local non-profits. That's right. Thanks for reminding me of that, Ralph. I said "folks" but failed to mention that decals were also involved in that and those were arranged by Jim Tynan (I'm not sure if Jim ever did break even). I am greatful to both Bill and Jim for their efforts in making the PaddleWise t-shirts and decals available to us. :-) Cheers, Jackie list-owner *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
It took a few months, Jackie, but I finally broke even on the decals! I figured I'd give the list a break before pushing them again, but seeing as how the subject has come up, why not, eh!?! <<g>> In order to make this decal thing happen way back when, I had to buy a lot of 1,000 Paddlewise.net decals. There are still about 400-500 left after selling them on the list and handing out a few stacks at various boat shops in my area. Anyone interested in purchasing one can e-mail me and I'll fill you in on the details. They're high quality and look great on kayaks, cars, refrigerators, office furniture, guitar cases, etc. And the rules of engagement have not changed -- any monies generated from this point on will be donated to a good cause with a paddling tie-in. Cheers! Jim Tynan Pike Road, AL jim.tynan_at_home.com BTW -- Recently joined the cable-modem ranks so the e-mail address is new! -----Original Message----- From: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net]On Behalf Of Jackie Fenton Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 5:39 PM To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] An Apology > For the record, Bill Leonhardt who arranged the Paddlewise shirts, took the > excess funds he had from the sale of the t-shirts and donated it in to > various local non-profits. That's right. Thanks for reminding me of that, Ralph. I said "folks" but failed to mention that decals were also involved in that and those were arranged by Jim Tynan (I'm not sure if Jim ever did break even). I am greatful to both Bill and Jim for their efforts in making the PaddleWise t-shirts and decals available to us. :-) Cheers, Jackie list-owner *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I am glad that Jackie keeps tight reins on things like this on the list, but I can empathize Michael. Hasn't been just a few things that I was excited to announce to the list, deals and such, that the 'delete before send' button saved me from embarrassment... Michael Edelman wrote: > > It's been brought to my attention that my recent post about Cafe Press > and my use of them may have stepped over the line into what constitutes > a commercial posting. For this, my humble apologies. I should have > considered this more carefully. -- ¤ Gabriel L Romeu ¤ http://studiofurniture.com + /diary or + /paint *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 04:48 PM 4/25/01 -0400, ralph diaz wrote: SNIP >For the record, Bill Leonhardt who arranged the Paddlewise shirts, took the >excess funds he had from the sale of the t-shirts and donated it in to >various local non-profits. > I forget who the rest of the excess went to. I sent the balance to the Hudson River Watertrails Association. >From my point of view, I definitely support Jackie's policy. This list is great, in large part due to her diligence. I hope this hasn't dampened Michael's enthusiasm, however, since I value his contributions. BTW, if we were ever to do T Shirts again, I'd be really happy if Michael was willing to coordinate them through the set-up he has. It looks like it would be less stressful. Bill Leonhardt *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 01-04-26 12:00:21 EDT, WJLeonhardt_at_bnl.gov writes: << BTW, if we were ever to do T Shirts again >> May I suggest baseball caps. Although the Volins were wearing their T-shirts when I went to pick them at the airport, others wanted to save them to use on the paddling days. It would be much easier to spot a Paddlewise logo on a cap when standing in a crowd. sandy kramer miami *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
We wanted to wear the shirts to help you (or whoever was going to pick us up, since we didn't know who that might be) to recognize us. But it wasn't necessary- the two kayaks on your car allowed us to recognize you instantly. Then all we had to do was stand there and wave like idiots. It was fun, though. It would be really nice if different people decided to put together these get-togethers in different places, and we could all travel to whatever we could reach. Then more of us could get to really know each other. (And we'd have a great excuse to wear our PW tee-shirts!) Joan *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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