Is there a place in Paddlewise where people have been evaluating or commenting upon the performance of kayaks they have been using? Or, if one wants to discuss a kayak, do you simply post it under the name of the kayak, and post it along with everything else that gets posted? Ken Rasmussen www.kayakfit.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I found purchasing a sea kayak to be one of the more problematic tasks I've had to accomplish to enter a sport or hobby. A kayak that initially looked sleek and seaworthy now seems like a plastic bath tub. I found the reports in Sea Kayaker useful but limited. I suggest that we develop a standard Paddlewise kayak review format that would assist others in at least, narrowing their range of choices, for demonstrations, etc. We should differentiate between kayaks owned, paddled extensively and just demoed and also have the age, weight, height and fitness of the paddler as part of the review. The reviews could be accompanied with photographs and other owner's tips and suggestions. This could become a valuable resource for the paddling community. What do the Wisenheimers think? Cu Bob Denton *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 09:09 AM 5/11/01 -0400, Bob Denton wrote: > >I suggest that we develop a standard Paddlewise kayak review format that >would assist others in at least, narrowing their range of choices, for >demonstrations, etc. We should differentiate between kayaks owned, >paddled extensively and just demoed and also have the age, weight, >height and fitness of the paddler as part of the review. The reviews >could be accompanied with photographs and other owner's tips and >suggestions. > >This could become a valuable resource for the paddling community. > >What do the Wisenheimers think? The idea has potential, but there is a big pitfall -- even if we try to account for it, there still isn't any way we can account for the non-level playing field of various reviewers. We have in the past talked about the Paddling.net reviews. The problem is that you have an experienced and highly skilled paddler reviewing, say, a Nordkapp, just to pull a boat out of mid air. He has some bones to pick with it, maybe stability, maybe something else, but thinks it's pretty good, so gives it a 7. An inexperienced paddler buys his first boat, say, a Perception Vizcaya, and thinks its the greatest thing since canned beer, so rates it as a 10. The end result is that the Vizcaya is skewed high, and the Nordkapp low. Swap paddlers -- the Nordkapp now gets a 2, because the inexperienced guy can't stay in it. The experienced guy gives the Vizcaya a 2, by comparing it to the Nordkapp. While I am no real fan of Sea Kayaker reviews, for reasons we have discussed before, I do have to admit that they do a pretty good, if not perfect, job of leveling the playing field before they start testing, by limiting the reviewers to a small, highly experienced group. -- Wes --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wes Boyd's Kayak Place http://www2.dmci.net/wesboyd/kayak.htm Kayaks for Big Guys (And Gals) | Trip Reports | Places To Go | Boats & Gear --------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I think the problem with most web reviews is that they are too subjective. The Seakayaker reviews are good but you can't query the reviewer and they are "borrowing" the boat. We all know that you can't really know (in the biblical sense) a boat until you have had the opportunity to paddle in all types of conditions under all manner of loads. Only an owner will really have that level of experience. Rating a boat on a scale is BS. It's impossible to get a meaningful value judgment from a boat owner. The trick would be to describe the features and functionality of a boat without being subjective. Then have a totally subjective what I like and don’t like about this boat section. cu *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> >Swap paddlers -- the Nordkapp now gets a 2, because the inexperienced guy >can't stay in it. The experienced guy gives the Vizcaya a 2, by comparing >it to the Nordkapp. I do think that there is some value in comparing boats to each other. Not as value judgements, but by being able to say for example, that a particular boat tracks like a GTS, but has the initial stability of a Romany. Or that the boat weathercocks slightly, though not as bad as an unloaded Sealion. I find that comparisons often help. True, they are no replacement for actually paddling a boat in a variety of situations, but at least provide a starting point. Someone with the time and motivation ought to through together a comparison database. There are enough similarities between boats that I think that I'd find it valuable. -Patrick (four boats, all different) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Well, I've always liked being able to get my legs out first, because it > makes sketchy exits and entries much easier. When there's more rocks than > beach, it allows me to get in and out of the kayak in deeper water so > there's less wear and tear on the hull of my kayak. It also makes dock exits > easier, especially when the dock is higher than normal. > Large cockpits, when properly designed, have no disadvantages except for a > slightly higher chance of implosion in large surf. It is possible to get > excellent thigh bracing in a large cockpit; ask any whitewater creekboater > about this, where leg-first exits are 100% necessary for survival. What > really bugs me is that so very few sea kayaks have even halfway decent thigh > braces. No wonder people think sea kayaks are hard to roll -- *any* kayak is > hard to roll without decent bracing. Now if only sea kayak manufacturers > would learn something from their whitewater brethren, where comfort, > control, and escapability are standard. > One thing about tracking... tracking is not just a physical characterisitic > of a kayak, it also a skill that must be learned. Since Sea Kayaker's > reviewers are not kayaking automatons, there will be minor variations in > perceived tracking characteristics because of different skill levels. That's > why there are three reviewers instead of only one. Well Kevin, you stuck three well deserved pins in my balloon! Those are all good points, though I do think that there is a tracking characteristic inherent (or not) in a kayak, and that it is describable. It is true though, that a skilled paddler can make a boat that tracks poorly, go straight. That still doesn't mean the boat tracks well. There is a trade off between tracking and turning. Boats that turn readily don't track as strongly as boats that automatically glide in a straight line. Boats that glide for many yards in a straight line are characteristically slow to turn. In other words, the more you have of one, the less you have of the other. A whitewater paddler develops the ability to make a boat that tracks poorly, go straight. A sea kayaker who habitually uses a straight running boat develops extra skill in turning it (one hopes, anyway). As regards better designed cockpits, I'm all for it. My business be damned! I wish the makers would get serious about putting thigh hooks in the right place so I'd have something to glue to, and wouldn't have to cantilever foam blocks out into space when I'm fitting knees. I think you and I are probably both fans of keyhole cockpits that are easy to get in and out of, and afford plenty of surface for glueing knee braces. As you say, there is no reason why a person would want anything else. Your comments are right on. I wouldn't dream of disagreeing. Ken Rasmussen www.kayakfit.com kayakfit_at_fidalgo.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Ken writes: > As regards better designed cockpits, I'm all for it. My business be > damned! I wish the makers would get serious about putting thigh hooks in > the right place so I'd have something to glue to, and wouldn't have to > cantilever foam blocks out into space when I'm fitting knees. I think you > and I are probably both fans of keyhole cockpits that are easy to get in and > out of, and afford plenty of surface for glueing knee braces. Have you tried the Romany? For those in the right size range, it has very good thigh contact as opposed to knee contact in other kayaks. The only foam I added to mine was 3/8-inch sleeping pad foam on the underside, more for bare-leg comfort than for fit. Chuck Holst *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Chuck, maybe for a normal person like you. With my long bandy legs (36" inseam), I needed to put in extensive knee/thigh support to alleviate the slight hook on the keyhole cockpit that would dig into the top of my thighs. I must say though, once I get rid of the horrible NDK backband and put in a foam lumbar support, my Romany will be more comfortable. Not as much as my Silhouette's ocean cockpit however which I also added quite a bit of upper thigh outfitting.... cholst wrote: > > Ken writes: > > > As regards better designed cockpits, I'm all for it. My business be > > damned! I wish the makers would get serious about putting thigh hooks in > > the right place so I'd have something to glue to, and wouldn't have to > > cantilever foam blocks out into space when I'm fitting knees. I think you > > and I are probably both fans of keyhole cockpits that are easy to get in and > > out of, and afford plenty of surface for glueing knee braces. > > Have you tried the Romany? For those in the right size range, it has very > good thigh contact as opposed to knee contact in other kayaks. The only foam > I added to mine was 3/8-inch sleeping pad foam on the underside, more for > bare-leg comfort than for fit. > > Chuck Holst > -- ¤ Gabriel L Romeu ¤ http://studiofurniture.com + /diary or + /paint *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Gabriel L Romeu writes: > Chuck, maybe for a normal person like you. With my long bandy legs (36" > inseam), I needed to put in extensive knee/thigh support to alleviate > the slight hook on the keyhole cockpit that would dig into the top of my > thighs. > > I must say though, once I get rid of the horrible NDK backband and put > in a foam lumbar support, my Romany will be more comfortable. Not as > much as my Silhouette's ocean cockpit however which I also added quite a > bit of upper thigh outfitting.... Well, I did say "in the right size range"! :-) People with large thighs also have trouble fitting into standard Romanys because the same keyhole overhang that works so well for me is too low for them. Chuck Holst *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:33:22 PDT