It seems that fellow Tim with his sponsons has gotten worse and worse in the rec.boats.paddle.touring newsgroup and others. His pattern is to have a canned message for a few days that he repeatedly sends to the newsgroups to any string of messages whether his message in any way fits or not. Often he will keep sending that canned message in reply to his own over and over again so that a thread may be 10 messages long with nine of them being his with little or no variance in the wording. The latest canned message is interesting. The second paragraph goes as follows: "Do not lie to people about rolls and paddlefloats to murder them.This is why Canoe and Kayak Mag, Seakayaker Mag, Ralph Diaz, Matt Broze etc. are in such serious trouble with charges of murder in the second degree." I don't know whether to laugh or cry. It certainly puts me in some very good company. An earlier set of his canned messages had me similarly condemned in the same breath as a condemnation of Charlie Walbridge, a renowned figure in the whitewater world especially for rescue techniques he developed and for his continuing monitoring and analysis of whitewater accidents. As far as I know neither of these fine magazines nor we three gentlemen have any criminal charges against us. Sure, it is all ridiculous but repeat a charge often enough and it gets to stick. While regular participants on the newsgroups dismiss the guy as insane or worse, what about the occasional newsgroup visitor? Or what about dejanews which archives newsgroups messages in searchable form? Some one goes to search my name, or Charlie's or Matt's in a search engine and this kind of stuff could be part of the stream of search results. Those of us in the Wavelength listserve days remember the Tim charges against John Winters as a baby killer and a signer of a suicide pact. I eventually, in Tim's eyes, joined John in killing babies. The only killing that did take place was effectively of Wavelength; and led to Jackie and others creating a sane venue for discussion, PaddleWise. Anyone know of anything practical that can be done? I know that subscribers to those newsgroups have apparently repeatedly approached internet authorities and I think Tim's Internet Service Provider to no avail. ralph diaz -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Ralph, I recently thought of offering you $10 million for your newsletter operation. Of course I did some research and a back ground check on your operation. Lo and behold, I find out from Google that you have murder charges out against you. I have since decided to invest elsewhere. I don't invest with murderers. If you are not a murderer, then you are a victim of libel and have just lost out on a major business opportunity. live long and paddle, albert ----- Original Message ----- From: "ralph diaz" <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2001 9:08 AM Subject: [Paddlewise] newsgroups happenings > It seems that fellow Tim with his sponsons has gotten worse and worse in the > rec.boats.paddle.touring newsgroup and others. His pattern is to have a > canned message for a few days that he repeatedly sends to the newsgroups to > any string of messages whether his message in any way fits or not. Often he > will keep sending that canned message in reply to his own over and over > again so that a thread may be 10 messages long with nine of them being his > with little or no variance in the wording. > > The latest canned message is interesting. The second paragraph goes as > follows: > > "Do not lie to people about rolls and paddlefloats to murder them.This is > why > Canoe and Kayak Mag, Seakayaker Mag, Ralph Diaz, Matt Broze etc. are in such > serious trouble with charges of murder in the second degree." > > I don't know whether to laugh or cry. It certainly puts me in some very > good company. An earlier set of his canned messages had me similarly > condemned in the same breath as a condemnation of Charlie Walbridge, a > renowned figure in the whitewater world especially for rescue techniques he > developed and for his continuing monitoring and analysis of whitewater > accidents. > > As far as I know neither of these fine magazines nor we three gentlemen have > any criminal charges against us. Sure, it is all ridiculous but repeat a > charge often enough and it gets to stick. While regular participants on the > newsgroups dismiss the guy as insane or worse, what about the occasional > newsgroup visitor? Or what about dejanews which archives newsgroups > messages in searchable form? Some one goes to search my name, or Charlie's > or Matt's in a search engine and this kind of stuff could be part of the > stream of search results. > > Those of us in the Wavelength listserve days remember the Tim charges > against John Winters as a baby killer and a signer of a suicide pact. I > eventually, in Tim's eyes, joined John in killing babies. The only killing > that did take place was effectively of Wavelength; and led to Jackie and > others creating a sane venue for discussion, PaddleWise. > > Anyone know of anything practical that can be done? I know that subscribers > to those newsgroups have apparently repeatedly approached internet > authorities and I think Tim's Internet Service Provider to no avail. > > ralph diaz > > -- > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter > PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 > Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com > "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed > here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire > responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. > Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net > Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 12:08 PM 5/13/2001 -0400, ralph diaz wrote: >I don't know whether to laugh or cry. It certainly puts me in some very >good company. An earlier set of his canned messages had me similarly >condemned .......... How many different ways can one spell "LIBEL?" It seems the only thing one can be guaranteed of from this guy is his wrath, character assassination and exaggeration. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hello Ralph. After reading a paragraph or two it becomes apparent that this person has something wrong with him. I don't know what, I just know that it IS. I'm only a dumb Bronx plumber myself and not exactly qualified to render a diagnosis, but this guy is suffering some sort of mental illness or disease. If there is some way to stop him, without driving yourself nuts or bankrupt in the process you should go for it. If not then don't sweat it too much. Only like-minded individuals would take him seriously, and they are probably few and far between. Regards, Steven Schmitz *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
----- Original Message ----- From: <Pipeguy55_at_aol.com> > > After reading a paragraph or two it becomes apparent that this person has > something wrong with him. I don't know what, I just know that it IS. I'm > only a dumb Bronx plumber myself and not exactly qualified to render a > diagnosis, but this guy is suffering some sort of mental illness or disease. > > If there is some way to stop him, without driving yourself nuts or bankrupt > in the process you should go for it. If not then don't sweat it too much. > Only like-minded individuals would take him seriously, and they are probably > few and far between. Steven, Thanks for the words of encouragement. I too was raised in the Bronx and am just a dumb writer. But I can't quite be that sanguine about the situation. People can easily be misled even by a badly told lie. My worry is that a search for name using Google bring up that statement of his. It gets retold and retold and eventually a lot of the nuttiness around it sheds off and all that is left is the kernel of the lie. Years ago, I was in the middle of a rift in a local club here in NYC between two factions. Since I am pretty articulate and can present a strong case, the opposite side took a bead on me figuring that if they could bump me off they would succeed. They did all kinds of dirty tricks that went on for about a year that I won't get into. But one tact was to try to ruin my reputation. I had just started my newsletter about six months earlier. They started spreading false accusations about it. One friend happened to hear one of these in an exchange between two people. Some one was relating what that they had been told. With full belief, the individual passed on that Ralph stole the information for his newsletter. Now you have to picture the situation back in 1991. No was writing about folding kayaks, period! Where in the world would I be stealing it from? It was all original. But the person, a well intentioned and well-meaning person who I knew, simply had accepted the blatant lie without questioning it and passing it on. So, you never know. ralph diaz *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
ralph diaz wrote: > ... Tim ... sponsons...repeatedly sends to the newsgroups...murder in the > second degree...baby killer...suicide pact....Anyone know of anything > practical that can be done? Hi Ralph and any of you other poor dogs being tormented by Tim: Sorry, but there is not too much you can do about Tim libelling you unless you are willing to pay your way through the court process. Your best bet is to apply for an injunction, but here are all the options (short of taking the fellow for a heavy weather paddle). Defamatory libel has a criminal penalty of up to five years, and Tim could be convicted for it, but the Law Reform Commission has recommend that it be removed from the books, so you would be extremely hard pressed to find a crown prosecutor to take it on. When it has been successfully prosecuted, it has usually been in cases with more of a public policy aspect, such as denigration of a judge. You could mount a private prosecution either through an attorney (though finding one would be extremely difficult) or on your own, but for the most part judges are not too thrilled about private prosecutions. A peace bond would not be possible, for a peace bond can only be ordered if there is a theat of personal injury or property damage. A full blown civil libel action either on your own or in conjunction with the other harmed parties is certainly possible. Just line up a stack of libellous posts, prove that they originated with Tim, and you’re off to the races. You would have to establish that the posts were defamatory, that they referred specifically to you, and that Tim had published them (the internet counts). The only hitch is that it would have to drag through High Court, which would take a fair chunk of change. In Canada the loser usually pays for part or all off the winner’s legal costs, more so if the loser mounted a stupid defence (knowing Tim, he might take a shot at justification, which would force you to haul in expert witnesses), but this is not something you should bank on. Since Tim is not a wealthy fellow, you might win but not be able to recover much if anything. As far as a damage award goes, it would be spin the wheel of justice time – the jury could award pretty much whatever it whished. Tim’s ongoing conduct would be an aggravating factor, but at the same time his obviously being a nut whom very few would take seriously would be a mitigating factor. In short, don’t expect a big award. Obviously in addition to a monetary award, large or small, you would have a very good chance at obtaining an injunction against further denigration. If you do decide to go after Tim for civil libel, be sure to send Tim a registered letter demanding a retraction of his statements prior to putting much work in the case, for if he did retract forthwith, you would not get damages. Finally, with defamation actions, you have some pretty tight limitation periods. I don’t remember them off hand, and I don't recall which limitations would apply in Tim's matter, but I recall that the matter has to be pretty fresh (e.g. if a newspaper of broadcaster is the defendant, a letter demanding retraction must be fired off within six weeks and the action must begin within three months). You could make an application for an injunction prohibiting Tim from denigrating you. This is the path I recommend. Similar to a full blown libel action, you would have to prove the libel, but since an application is usually heard on written affidavits rather than through oral testimony, you would pretty much have to demonstrate that Tim had no viable defence. If Tim jumped up and down enough, the court would probably order it to go to trial as if it were an action. I’d recommend trying to squeeze through on only an application given that the case against Tim is so one sided, but be prepared for the long haul. The nice thing about an application is that if it does not get ordered to trial, it is not ruinously expensive. The nice thing about an injunction is that each time Tim falls back into his wicked ways (and you know he will because he is a nut), you can have him hauled up for contempt of court and fined (or possibly tossed in the can, though in reality this would be highly unlikely), rather than have to start out all over again with a fresh action or application. Since most injunctions are time limited, you may have to start fresh every few years, but each time it would get easier. Of all the different approaches, an application for an injunction is what I recommend, and although it is not possible to assure success, I believe that there is a very high probability that you would succeed in wining an injunction. I don’t know many lawyers down at Tim’s end of the province (he was in Penetanguishine at the base of Georgian Bay, but he may have moved for all I know), and I am a two day drive at the other end of the province (in Thunder Bay at the top of Superior – divine paddling country), so I can’t really help you. I can think of one paddling lawyer down Tim's way who would probably take on the case just to piss off Tim, but even at a heavily discounted fee, it might still cost you a small fortune (he’s one of the big boys in Toronto with an astronomical hourly rate). If you or you and the other libelled parties want to go for an application for an injunction and are willing to pay your way though, drop me an e-mail and I will recommend your matter to him. I can’t make any promises, though. Richard Culpeper culpeper_at_tbaytel.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Would everybody who would like to talk about this topic agree on a specific subject line so us others can extend the filters like we are currently using in the newsgroup? It has split to two subject lines now and there is no telling where it may go. I really hate seeing this stuff start to invade Paddlewise. -- ¤ Gabriel L Romeu ¤ http://studiofurniture.com + /diary or + /paint *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> From: Gabriel L Romeu <romeug_at_erols.com> <snip> > I really hate seeing this stuff start to invade Paddlewise. I agree, Gabriel. There are a lot of people leaving the newsgroups and coming here to get away from it. Let's let them have their peace, folks. :-) Jackie list-owner *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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