Hi All, I am currently writing an accident report about a case of novice entrapment that resulted in the death of the student. I have taught novice paddlers the basics for about 15 years. It is my policy, wether teaching novices or taking "guests" out for a first paddle, to NEVER allow them to use a spray skirt without first demonstrating command and comfort in executing wet exits first without and then with spray skirts. These exercises are done in a situation where an instructor is standing nearby the the student in position to assist the student if they panic or fail for any reason to exit the boat. If conditions are such that we can not initially do such wet exit training but must paddle to work on strokes and rescues--- THEN THE STUDENTS PADDLE without spray skirts. We never break this rule. Students always wear PFDs, of course. Demonstrations of wet exits on land are not, in my opinion, ever sufficient to allow students to skip the capsize drills in the water. I look forwards to your discussion of this policy. Am I the only instructor following this practice? Thanks, Chuck Sutherland *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I agree this is a good policy, Chuck. Another approach is to issue loosely fitting spray skirts so that (a) removal in the prescribed way is easy, and (2) the skirt will fall off the cockpit in a capsize. Bob V <snip> It is my policy, wether teaching novices or taking "guests" out for a > first paddle, to NEVER allow them to use a spray skirt without first > demonstrating command and comfort in executing wet exits first > without and then with spray skirts. These exercises are done in a > situation where an instructor is standing nearby the the student in > position to assist the student if they panic or fail for any reason > to exit the boat. > > If conditions are such that we can not initially do such wet exit > training but must paddle to work on strokes and rescues--- THEN THE > STUDENTS PADDLE without spray skirts. We never break this rule. > Students always wear PFDs, of course. > > Demonstrations of wet exits on land are not, in my opinion, ever > sufficient to allow students to skip the capsize drills in the water. <snip>> > Am I the only instructor following this practice? > > Thanks, > Chuck Sutherland > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed > here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire > responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. > Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net > Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In our Boeing club/Washington Kayak Club Basic Kayaking classes, we never omit the wet exit practice, in the cold water of Puget Sound, no matter what the conditions. When the students are comfortable with that, we start immediately with deep water assisted rescue instruction and practice, even before we introduce strokes. By the time we're done with that, students are comfortable getting wet and doing wet exits. We find that the remainder of the two classes is not only safer, but more productive since students are over their fear of getting wet. Dave Carlson Bob Volin wrote: > I agree this is a good policy, Chuck. Another approach is to issue loosely > fitting spray skirts so that (a) removal in the prescribed way is easy, and > (2) the skirt will fall off the cockpit in a capsize. > > Bob V > > <snip> It is my policy, wether teaching novices or taking "guests" out for a > > first paddle, to NEVER allow them to use a spray skirt without first > > demonstrating command and comfort in executing wet exits first > > without and then with spray skirts. These exercises are done in a > > situation where an instructor is standing nearby the the student in > > position to assist the student if they panic or fail for any reason > > to exit the boat. > > > > If conditions are such that we can not initially do such wet exit > > training but must paddle to work on strokes and rescues--- THEN THE > > STUDENTS PADDLE without spray skirts. We never break this rule. > > Students always wear PFDs, of course. > > > > Demonstrations of wet exits on land are not, in my opinion, ever > > sufficient to allow students to skip the capsize drills in the water. > <snip>> > > Am I the only instructor following this practice? > > > > Thanks, > > Chuck Sutherland > > > > > *************************************************************************** > > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed > > here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire > > responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. > > Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net > > Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net > > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > > > *************************************************************************** > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed > here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire > responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. > Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net > Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Chuck wrote: >>>It is my policy, wether teaching novices or taking "guests" out for a first paddle, to NEVER allow them to use a spray skirt without first demonstrating command and comfort in executing wet exits first without and then with spray skirts.<<< I agree completely. Since I take novices only on trips on flat water and mostly in nice weather, they don't need a sprayskirt anyway: No waves will be coming over, and if they lean far enough to let water into the cockpit, they will capsize anyway. However, I am not the main trainer at my club. I just give personal advice and assistance in the background. Our main trainers insist that novices should paddle whitewaterboats with sprayskirts, so that they have all of problems to handle at once, while I prefer to take them one step at the time: First paddle a stable, well tracking boat without a sprayskirt to concentrate on a good forward stroke, then work on sweepstrokes, then use sweepstrokes to keep control of a whitewaterboat, then move on to bracing and leaning where you need a sprayskirt. But what the hell, our students learn to paddle anyway and none have drowned so far (we DO start with a wet-exit practice in every course). You can't have it your way all the time. Niels. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 11:04 PM 9/17/01 +0000, skimmer_at_mail3.enter.net wrote: >Hi All, >I am currently writing an accident report about a case of novice >entrapment that resulted in the death of the student. > >I have taught novice paddlers the basics for about 15 years. > >It is my policy, wether teaching novices or taking "guests" out for a >first paddle, to NEVER allow them to use a spray skirt without first >demonstrating command and comfort in executing wet exits first >without and then with spray skirts. These exercises are done in a >situation where an instructor is standing nearby the the student in >position to assist the student if they panic or fail for any reason >to exit the boat. > >If conditions are such that we can not initially do such wet exit >training but must paddle to work on strokes and rescues--- THEN THE >STUDENTS PADDLE without spray skirts. We never break this rule. >Students always wear PFDs, of course. > >Demonstrations of wet exits on land are not, in my opinion, ever >sufficient to allow students to skip the capsize drills in the water. > >I look forwards to your discussion of this policy. > >Am I the only instructor following this practice? I doubt it. The friend of mine that owns the local kayak shop sells, rents, and gives lessons in kayaks. He won't give any of his renters a sprayskirt unless he's seen them do a wet exit with a spray skirt attached or they can convince him that they've done one. During the lessons he typically has first time students do at least two wet exits, followed by an assisted rescue and another for a paddlefloat reentry. However, he doesn't stand in the water next to them. Personally I think that many of the real nervous beginners might find prefer that than having him sitting in his boat. The other group that I help out with quite often is the Cornell Outing Club. It's a club, primarily students, that does a variety of outdoor activities, including kayaking. They have a bunch of whitewater boats for club use. Before anyone in the club is allowed to use one of the kayaks they must demonstrate two *calm* wet exits. In fact, before anyone is given a paddle, they must do the wet exits. Since there are always new freshmen coming in to join the club I have been out several times helping first timers. A week ago there were ten new members and most of them did quite well. One particular woman, however, was very nervous about the whole thing. I demonstrated one to show how much time she really had before she needed to pull the grab loop and get out. I tipped over, spun the paddle around on the hull, twiddled my fingers, took my hands under water, and then back up again, twiddled some more, and then released my skirt and came out. Then she tried it. She was out of the boat before it got completely upside down. Her second one was a bit better and we made her do a third. Now here's the kicker. She's a lifeguard. Some people just seem to get a lot more nervous about the whole thing and it's hard to explain why. It's not just being underwater. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I also agree and haven't been to beginners instructions that did not include a pretty thorough spray deck release/wet exit portion of the lesson. I am very interested in the thoughts about approaching a panicked person in the water. gabriel Bob Volin wrote: > > I agree this is a good policy, Chuck. Another approach is to issue loosely > fitting spray skirts so that (a) removal in the prescribed way is easy, and > (2) the skirt will fall off the cockpit in a capsize. > > Bob V > > <snip> It is my policy, wether teaching novices or taking "guests" out for a > > first paddle, to NEVER allow them to use a spray skirt without first > > demonstrating command and comfort in executing wet exits first > > without and then with spray skirts. These exercises are done in a > > situation where an instructor is standing nearby the the student in > > position to assist the student if they panic or fail for any reason > > to exit the boat. > > > > If conditions are such that we can not initially do such wet exit > > training but must paddle to work on strokes and rescues--- THEN THE > > STUDENTS PADDLE without spray skirts. We never break this rule. > > Students always wear PFDs, of course. > > > > Demonstrations of wet exits on land are not, in my opinion, ever > > sufficient to allow students to skip the capsize drills in the water. > <snip>> > > Am I the only instructor following this practice? > > > > Thanks, > > Chuck Sutherland > -- ¤ Gabriel L Romeu ¤ http://studiofurniture.com + /diary or + /paint *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
There are many good opinions on this subject. This is how I teach someone the wet exit. First, standing in the water next to the kayaker, I have them lean forward and tip themselves over. Leaning forward helps instill this as a reflex, which is essential for starting the roll and for safety if they ever find themselves kayaking in surf or whitewater rivers. Tipping themselves over helps conquer fear. Next, they hang out under water and get used to it. As soon as they are ready to come up, they tap the hull and I bring them up. Repeat several times to the point where they are willing to change torso positions (bending forward and back) repeatedly under water. Use your judgement as to when they are comfortable enough under water to perform several successive tasks. It also helps to have them capsize on both sides and bring them up on both sides. Once relative comfort under water is achieved, only then do they actually get to practice a wet exit. Definitely let them wear noseplugs and/or goggles and a diving mask. The goggles and diving mask are only a temporary crutch however, since in kayaking, "your eyes are your enemies". At least as far as learning basic skills such as edging or eskimo rolling are concerned. One more thing... after they have done one wet exit, I sometimes challenge them to do another without letting go of their paddle. This is a very important habit for safety's sake. Cheers, kevin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hi friends, I understand it is part of the training at ACA (American Canoe Association), and it is taught in the Instructor Development Workshop (IDW) and in the ICE (Instructor certificate examination), that instructors must work with new students in learning how to wet exit comfortably. One approach has been a Demo and Do exercise in which the instructor demos entrance and exit on land and asks the student to repeat the motion of placing the sprayskirt after entrance and freeing it from the front ribbon and doing the motion to exit, step by step, running the fingers sideways to liberate the sprayskirt after it is loose up front, sliding the body backwards, using both arms for support and checking to clear the knee braces, and so on. After that, he demos in the water and then on a one by one basis, standing in the water by the student, he sees that each student tips over and does the wet exit with confidence, even banging the hull once upside down to show that he is at ease. If he fails to do so and does not feel confident, then he can try it another time. If he still feels uncomfortable he can not continue the class, traveling with others with the sprayskirt on, because then one is asking for trouble. I have made a point to give students a nylon cloth sprayskirt that will always come loose in case of panic, but which holds well for rolls and eskimo rescues. With the training and this precaution I know that they are confident, but I minimize risks in case they change their minds. Best Regards, Rafael. www.mayanseas.com e the At 08:17 a.m. 18/09/01 -0400, you wrote: >At 11:04 PM 9/17/01 +0000, skimmer_at_mail3.enter.net wrote: >>Hi All, >>I am currently writing an accident report about a case of novice >>entrapment that resulted in the death of the student. >> >>I have taught novice paddlers the basics for about 15 years. >> >>It is my policy, wether teaching novices or taking "guests" out for a >>first paddle, to NEVER allow them to use a spray skirt without first >>demonstrating command and comfort in executing wet exits first >>without and then with spray skirts. These exercises are done in a >>situation where an instructor is standing nearby the the student in >>position to assist the student if they panic or fail for any reason >>to exit the boat. >> >>If conditions are such that we can not initially do such wet exit >>training but must paddle to work on strokes and rescues--- THEN THE >>STUDENTS PADDLE without spray skirts. We never break this rule. >>Students always wear PFDs, of course. >> >>Demonstrations of wet exits on land are not, in my opinion, ever >>sufficient to allow students to skip the capsize drills in the water. >> >>I look forwards to your discussion of this policy. >> >>Am I the only instructor following this practice? > >I doubt it. The friend of mine that owns the local kayak shop sells, >rents, and gives lessons in kayaks. He won't give any of his renters a >sprayskirt unless he's seen them do a wet exit with a spray skirt attached >or they can convince him that they've done one. During the lessons he >typically has first time students do at least two wet exits, followed by >an assisted rescue and another for a paddlefloat reentry. However, he >doesn't stand in the water next to them. Personally I think that many of >the real nervous beginners might find prefer that than having him sitting >in his boat. > >The other group that I help out with quite often is the Cornell Outing >Club. It's a club, primarily students, that does a variety of outdoor >activities, including kayaking. They have a bunch of whitewater boats for >club use. Before anyone in the club is allowed to use one of the kayaks >they must demonstrate two *calm* wet exits. In fact, before anyone is >given a paddle, they must do the wet exits. Since there are always new >freshmen coming in to join the club I have been out several times helping >first timers. A week ago there were ten new members and most of them did >quite well. One particular woman, however, was very nervous about the >whole thing. I demonstrated one to show how much time she really had >before she needed to pull the grab loop and get out. I tipped over, spun >the paddle around on the hull, twiddled my fingers, took my hands under >water, and then back up again, twiddled some more, and then released my >skirt and came out. Then she tried it. She was out of the boat before it >got completely upside down. Her second one was a bit better and we made >her do a third. Now here's the kicker. She's a lifeguard. > >Some people just seem to get a lot more nervous about the whole thing and >it's hard to explain why. It's not just being underwater. > > >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed >here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire >responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. >Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net >Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net >Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ >*************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Chuck Sutherland <skimmer_at_mail3.enter.net> wrote: >It is my policy, wether teaching novices or taking "guests" out for a >first paddle, to NEVER allow them to use a spray skirt without first >demonstrating command and comfort in executing wet exits first >without and then with spray skirts. >If conditions are such that we can not initially do such wet exit >training but must paddle to work on strokes and rescues--- THEN THE >STUDENTS PADDLE without spray skirts. We never break this rule. >Students always wear PFDs, of course. I carry a large, old nylon sprayskirt. If a student doesn't have a nylon sprayskirt, I'll loan them mine (as opposed to their wearing a neoprene one that they might have brought). I haven't seen a nylon skirt hold a person in their cockpit yet. They are truly a "spray" only skirt, and don't hold much better than that. Neoprene, on the other hand, could pose a serious entrapment hazard, but they work a lot better for keeping breaking waves, etc. out of the cockpit (when used by an experienced paddler). >Demonstrations of wet exits on land are not, in my opinion, ever >sufficient to allow students to skip the capsize drills in the water. Nope, they're not. Everybody panicks their first time. Better that first time be in benign conditions with an instructor present, than when the $#!t hits the fan. shawn *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
As being trapped in the boat is one of the greatest fears of the student - maybe more so in tighter-fitting whitewater boats than in sea kayaks, the student should practice wet exit drills as much as is possible early in their paddling training. Having them do a wet exit once is not sufficient. . After introducing the topic of wet exits to a class, I like to pose a question to the students: "How long can you hold your breath?". Whatever discussion ensues gets the students thinking about their comfort level in and under water, and a followup statement to the effect of "It takes less than 15 seconds for a wet exit." sets the tone for the wet exit session. After a discussion and demo, the student should all tip over and exit the boat without a spray skirt. (stress that they _not_ come up for air until their feet are clear of the cockpit rim.) Even with the discussion, which may include a request to tap on the bottom of the boat or to hang upside down for 5 seconds before exiting, many students are out of the boat seemingly before their heads get wet. After they realize how easy it really is on their own, the comfort level goes up. The next step is to introduce the spray skirt. After discussion, enlisting one of the gung-ho students or an assistant to demo the with-sprayskirt wet exit lets the more timid see the process while you describe it. Timing how long it takes your demo student to wet exit also reinforces the concept that the wet exit is easy and quick. After the discussion and demo, *everyone* should do at least one wet exit with a spray skirt. Those that are comfortable in/under the water will have fun with the drill, and those that are afraid of water will find this a challenge. After each of the students have done wet exits without and with skirts, they should be reminded now and again to do this visualization drill while in their boats and upright *and with eyes closed* - (with sprayskirt on) have them find the cockpit rim near their waist, run their hands along the cockpit rim to the grab loop, and then release the spray skirt. Repetition of this in-the-boat drill *after* the in-the-water practice helps commit the sprayskirt release to body memory. Regards, Erik Sprenne *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
IIRC, here's what we did when I took my introductory course with George Gronseth. This was with a tight fitting full neoprene skirt which is what he teaches in from the beginning. 1) On land, sit in the boat and fasten the skirt. Test the fit by striking the top of the skirt with your fist, hard. If it pops, it's too loose. 2) On land, demonstrate the ability to release the skirt with the right hand. The way he teaches to open the skirt is to lean far forward, drop the elbow forcibly into the top of the skirt then pull back. Even a tight neoprene skirt pops right off. Do it again eyes closed. 3) Do the same thing with the left hand. 4) Release the skirt by pinching the side of the coaming and pulling the skirt up, inserting the fingers then running them around the edge to pop the skirt. Do it again eyes closed. 5) Do both of the above in shallow water with the instructor standing next to you. 6) Finally, do all of the above as part of deep water rescues. My wife is all of 5' 3" and 98lbs but she has no problem releasing a tight neoprene skirt, even with an implosion bar. Her problem is getting it on... Best, Thomas *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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