Hi! I'd like to share with you my personal impression. (I took Khatsalano-S this weekend for testing.) Usually I'm paddling different types of NDK (explorer, greenlander pro, ...). Recently I made a trip on Prijon SeaYak. Well, frankly I was very disappointed from the kayak. Except for it being beautiful and transportable, it found it being hardly compared to any of the hard-shells I paddled. Besides the problems that I expected in this type of kayak (like little luggage space), I found it: 1. Slow (comparing to the greenlander-style boats). 2. Rolling: I needed to use quite aggressive high-brace at the end of the roll. Comparing to NDK kayaks that can be rolled by slow sweep stroke, sculling or even hands, it was disappointing. During the first roll the sea sock accidentally pulled out of the kayak, the kayak was flooded (I didn't take the air bags) and started sinking. Fortunately I was near the shore. 3. The sitting inside is very uncomfortable, the sea sock is probably the only solution for the folding kayaks, but it is very inconvenient. 4. The surfing was bad: the kayak dangerously bended after taking a moderate breaking wave (~1.5 meter): the bow was directed to the wave, I paddled back until the wave braked on me. Yet, taking breaking waves aside was much better. Anyway, I wouldn't risk to take more than 2 meters breaking wave in this kayak. 5. The rudder accidentally opened and bended during surfing. 6. The stern hatch accidentally opened during surfing, and the water started entering the kayak. 7. Any change in kayak load (even small amount of water) changed its behavior. It could be difficult to predict its behavior in trips (where the weight can be changed). 8. I was told that the kayak should be lifted by lifting both rear and front sides simultaneously. I can hardly imagine how should I land with the kayak during the trip (fully loaded). Should I ask 2 more people help me carrying it to the beach? 9. Rescue: how exactly can you risqué a Khatsalano with help of another kayak? You can't lift it, right? You have two choices: get the sea sock out of the kayak and empty it, or use a pump. Remember that you really need a risqué only in rough conditions where you can't exactly use the pump. Also pulling a sea sock doesn't seem to be a good idea: the kayak will be flooded with the first wave. Bottom line: it could be not bad for calm traveling (lakes, calm seas). Especially because it is transportable. It is beautiful. I wouldn't wish to myself to get stuck in it in rough, cold sea 5 kilometers from the beach. In general I would definitely prefer paddling a simple ugly plastic Seayak (you can rent it almost anywhere in the world), rather than a sophisticated Khatsalano. Again it is my personal experience, I could agree that my skills are limited or the specific kayak was bad. Regards, Michael Hoichman http://www.envy.nu/hoichman/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Dear Friends: I would be very interested in the comments to Michael Hoichman's post, particularly from Matt, Ralph D., and any longtime Khats users who paddle the open sea and do surf landings. The reason I say this is that I know Michael (finally, another Israeli on the list!!), he is a great paddler, rolls fantastically, and he has my respect (sorry Michael if this makes you blush...). Two summers ago on Lake Union Matt let me demo a Khats. At the time, I liked it a lot, but was not very skilled, and certainly could not roll. What do people have to say about the wave and rolling problems Michael encountered? The Khats has been my most coveted boat since I got my NDK Explorer, but Michael's assessment has got me to thinking... Josh At 12:52 14/10/01, Michael Hoichman wrote: >1. Slow (comparing to the greenlander-style boats). >2. Rolling: I needed to use quite aggressive high-brace at the end of the >roll. Comparing to NDK kayaks that can be rolled by slow sweep stroke, >sculling or even hands, it was disappointing. During the first roll the sea >sock accidentally pulled out of the kayak, the kayak was flooded (I didn't >take the air bags) and started sinking. Fortunately I was near the shore. >3. The sitting inside is very uncomfortable, the sea sock is probably the >only solution for the folding kayaks, but it is very inconvenient. >4. The surfing was bad: the kayak dangerously bended after taking a moderate >breaking wave (~1.5 meter): the bow was directed to the wave, I paddled back >until the wave braked on me. Yet, taking breaking waves aside was much >better. Anyway, I wouldn't risk to take more than 2 meters breaking wave in >this kayak. >5. The rudder accidentally opened and bended during surfing. >6. The stern hatch accidentally opened during surfing, and the water started >entering the kayak. >7. Any change in kayak load (even small amount of water) changed its >behavior. It could be difficult to predict its behavior in trips (where the >weight can be changed). >8. I was told that the kayak should be lifted by lifting both rear and front >sides simultaneously. I can hardly imagine how should I land with the kayak >during the trip (fully loaded). Should I ask 2 more people help me carrying >it to the beach? >9. Rescue: how exactly can you risqué a Khatsalano with help of another >kayak? You can't lift it, right? You have two choices: get the sea sock out >of the kayak and empty it, or use a pump. Remember that you really need a >risqué only in rough conditions where you can't exactly use the pump. Also >pulling a sea sock doesn't seem to be a good idea: the kayak will be flooded >with the first wave. > >Bottom line: it could be not bad for calm traveling (lakes, calm seas). >Especially because it is transportable. It is beautiful. I wouldn't wish to >myself to get stuck in it in rough, cold sea 5 kilometers from the beach. In >general I would definitely prefer paddling a simple ugly plastic Seayak (you >can rent it almost anywhere in the world), rather than a sophisticated >Khatsalano. ============================================================================== Dr. Joshua Teitelbaum, Research Fellow Tel: [972] 3-640-6448 Moshe Dayan Center for Middle Eastern and Fax: [972] 3-641-5802 African Studies Tel Aviv University Ramat Aviv, Tel Aviv 69978 Israel E-mail:teitelba_at_post.tau.ac.il www.dayan.org ============================================================================== *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Dear Josh! I'd like to add another comment that Omer and Saggi tried Khatsalano-S and disliked it very much for the same reasons. (Omer and Saggi are 5 stars BCU instructors, with LOTS of experience and brilliant technique.) Omer said he would definitely prefer the plastics. My wife Inna succeeded to roll it after about about 5 attempts (and she rolls great). At some point when she was out of the kayak for a long time, I came with NDK and we switched (both deciding to make reenter and roll). She did reenter and roll in NDK at her first attempt (although the foot braces didn't match her legs at all). It took me 3 attempts to make reenter and roll in Khatsalano partially because I messed with the sea sock but also because of the bad legs position, the shape of the kayak and who knows why more. For me there's no such thing like "a kayak for calm conditions". It can be calm only in a lake or a bay and only if you're very close to the shore. Anything else can be dangerous. To treat the danger you need a good kayak and good technique. You can never rely on the forecasts in the trip. I've experienced force 8 winds twice in the trips, and once it was followed by 6 meters high swells (and most frustrating: about 10 kilometers from the shore). I never planned to paddle in such conditions, but the weather and the sea can change surprisingly fast. The cockpit of the NDK explorer was flooded with water after 10 minutes (through the spray deck). Using the pump looked like a bad joke (you felt almost capsizing by the wind, not talking about the waves). But the kayak stayed quite predictable and didn't sink. Think for a moment you sit in Khatsalano... Michael Hoichman -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Teitelbaum [mailto:teitelba_at_post.tau.ac.il] Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2001 1:19 PM To: Michael Hoichman; paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Khatsalano kayak: personal experience Dear Friends: I would be very interested in the comments to Michael Hoichman's post, particularly from Matt, Ralph D., and any longtime Khats users who paddle the open sea and do surf landings. The reason I say this is that I know Michael (finally, another Israeli on the list!!), he is a great paddler, rolls fantastically, and he has my respect (sorry Michael if this makes you blush...). Two summers ago on Lake Union Matt let me demo a Khats. At the time, I liked it a lot, but was not very skilled, and certainly could not roll. What do people have to say about the wave and rolling problems Michael encountered? The Khats has been my most coveted boat since I got my NDK Explorer, but Michael's assessment has got me to thinking... Josh At 12:52 14/10/01, Michael Hoichman wrote: 1. Slow (comparing to the greenlander-style boats). 2. Rolling: I needed to use quite aggressive high-brace at the end of the roll. Comparing to NDK kayaks that can be rolled by slow sweep stroke, sculling or even hands, it was disappointing. During the first roll the sea sock accidentally pulled out of the kayak, the kayak was flooded (I didn't take the air bags) and started sinking. Fortunately I was near the shore. 3. The sitting inside is very uncomfortable, the sea sock is probably the only solution for the folding kayaks, but it is very inconvenient. 4. The surfing was bad: the kayak dangerously bended after taking a moderate breaking wave (~1.5 meter): the bow was directed to the wave, I paddled back until the wave braked on me. Yet, taking breaking waves aside was much better. Anyway, I wouldn't risk to take more than 2 meters breaking wave in this kayak. 5. The rudder accidentally opened and bended during surfing. 6. The stern hatch accidentally opened during surfing, and the water started entering the kayak. 7. Any change in kayak load (even small amount of water) changed its behavior. It could be difficult to predict its behavior in trips (where the weight can be changed). 8. I was told that the kayak should be lifted by lifting both rear and front sides simultaneously. I can hardly imagine how should I land with the kayak during the trip (fully loaded). Should I ask 2 more people help me carrying it to the beach? 9. Rescue: how exactly can you risqué a Khatsalano with help of another kayak? You can't lift it, right? You have two choices: get the sea sock out of the kayak and empty it, or use a pump. Remember that you really need a risqué only in rough conditions where you can't exactly use the pump. Also pulling a sea sock doesn't seem to be a good idea: the kayak will be flooded with the first wave. Bottom line: it could be not bad for calm traveling (lakes, calm seas). Especially because it is transportable. It is beautiful. I wouldn't wish to myself to get stuck in it in rough, cold sea 5 kilometers from the beach. In general I would definitely prefer paddling a simple ugly plastic Seayak (you can rent it almost anywhere in the world), rather than a sophisticated Khatsalano. ============================================================================ == Dr. Joshua Teitelbaum, Research Fellow Tel: [972] 3-640-6448 Moshe Dayan Center for Middle Eastern and Fax: [972] 3-641-5802 African Studies Tel Aviv University Ramat Aviv, Tel Aviv 69978 Israel E-mail:teitelba_at_post.tau.ac.il www <http://www.dayan.org/> .dayan. org <http://www.dayan.org/> ============================================================================ == *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Excuse me! I think you people are missing the point. You are trying to appraise apples and oranges! You are dealing with a folding kayak, they don't handle the same way a fiberglass or hard shelled kayak should. What do people expect when they purchase a folding boat? KS -----Original Message----- From: Michael Hoichman [SMTP:mhoichman_at_Banter.com] Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2001 6:29 AM To: 'Joshua Teitelbaum'; paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Khatsalano kayak: personal experience Dear Josh! I'd like to add another comment that Omer and Saggi tried Khatsalano-S and disliked it very much for the same reasons. (Omer and Saggi are 5 stars BCU instructors, with LOTS of experience and brilliant technique.) Omer said he would definitely prefer the plastics. My wife Inna succeeded to roll it after about about 5 attempts (and she rolls great). At some point when she was out of the kayak for a long time, I came with NDK and we switched (both deciding to make reenter and roll). She did reenter and roll in NDK at her first attempt (although the foot braces didn't match her legs at all). It took me 3 attempts to make reenter and roll in Khatsalano partially because I messed with the sea sock but also because of the bad legs position, the shape of the kayak and who knows why more. For me there's no such thing like "a kayak for calm conditions". It can be calm only in a lake or a bay and only if you're very close to the shore. Anything else can be dangerous. To treat the danger you need a good kayak and good technique. You can never rely on the forecasts in the trip. I've experienced force 8 winds twice in the trips, and once it was followed by 6 meters high swells (and most frustrating: about 10 kilometers from the shore). I never planned to paddle in such conditions, but the weather and the sea can change surprisingly fast. The cockpit of the NDK explorer was flooded with water after 10 minutes (through the spray deck). Using the pump looked like a bad joke (you felt almost capsizing by the wind, not talking about the waves). But the kayak stayed quite predictable and didn't sink. Think for a moment you sit in Khatsalano... Michael Hoichman -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Teitelbaum [mailto:teitelba_at_post.tau.ac.il] Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2001 1:19 PM To: Michael Hoichman; paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Khatsalano kayak: personal experience Dear Friends: I would be very interested in the comments to Michael Hoichman's post, particularly from Matt, Ralph D., and any longtime Khats users who paddle the open sea and do surf landings. The reason I say this is that I know Michael (finally, another Israeli on the list!!), he is a great paddler, rolls fantastically, and he has my respect (sorry Michael if this makes you blush...). Two summers ago on Lake Union Matt let me demo a Khats. At the time, I liked it a lot, but was not very skilled, and certainly could not roll. What do people have to say about the wave and rolling problems Michael encountered? The Khats has been my most coveted boat since I got my NDK Explorer, but Michael's assessment has got me to thinking... Josh At 12:52 14/10/01, Michael Hoichman wrote: 1. Slow (comparing to the greenlander-style boats). 2. Rolling: I needed to use quite aggressive high-brace at the end of the roll. Comparing to NDK kayaks that can be rolled by slow sweep stroke, sculling or even hands, it was disappointing. During the first roll the sea sock accidentally pulled out of the kayak, the kayak was flooded (I didn't take the air bags) and started sinking. Fortunately I was near the shore. 3. The sitting inside is very uncomfortable, the sea sock is probably the only solution for the folding kayaks, but it is very inconvenient. 4. The surfing was bad: the kayak dangerously bended after taking a moderate breaking wave (~1.5 meter): the bow was directed to the wave, I paddled back until the wave braked on me. Yet, taking breaking waves aside was much better. Anyway, I wouldn't risk to take more than 2 meters breaking wave in this kayak. 5. The rudder accidentally opened and bended during surfing. 6. The stern hatch accidentally opened during surfing, and the water started entering the kayak. 7. Any change in kayak load (even small amount of water) changed its behavior. It could be difficult to predict its behavior in trips (where the weight can be changed). 8. I was told that the kayak should be lifted by lifting both rear and front sides simultaneously. I can hardly imagine how should I land with the kayak during the trip (fully loaded). Should I ask 2 more people help me carrying it to the beach? 9. Rescue: how exactly can you risqué a Khatsalano with help of another kayak? You can't lift it, right? You have two choices: get the sea sock out of the kayak and empty it, or use a pump. Remember that you really need a risqué only in rough conditions where you can't exactly use the pump. Also pulling a sea sock doesn't seem to be a good idea: the kayak will be flooded with the first wave. Bottom line: it could be not bad for calm traveling (lakes, calm seas). Especially because it is transportable. It is beautiful. I wouldn't wish to myself to get stuck in it in rough, cold sea 5 kilometers from the beach. In general I would definitely prefer paddling a simple ugly plastic Seayak (you can rent it almost anywhere in the world), rather than a sophisticated Khatsalano. ============================================================================ == Dr. Joshua Teitelbaum, Research Fellow Tel: [972] 3-640-6448 Moshe Dayan Center for Middle Eastern and Fax: [972] 3-641-5802 African Studies Tel Aviv University Ramat Aviv, Tel Aviv 69978 Israel E-mail:teitelba_at_post.tau.ac.il www <http://www.dayan.org/> .dayan. org <http://www.dayan.org/> ============================================================================ == *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Kirby and friends: At 20:48 14/10/01, Kirby Stevens wrote: >Excuse me! I think you people are missing the point. You are trying >to appraise apples and oranges! You are dealing with a folding >kayak, they don't handle the same way a fiberglass or hard shelled kayak >should. > >What do people expect when they purchase a folding boat? Well, we expect that a folding boat like the Khats, which is designed to perform like a Greenland boat, would not bend significantly on medium-sized waves, that it would roll easily (by an experienced roller), that the stern hatch would not pop open during a surf landing, and that any change in the trim caused by a small amount of water would not significantly effect performance. And does not the need for flotation bags take up what little storage space there is on the Khats? Now, I would like to try out the following hypothesis on the group, and it is only a hypothesis: 1. The MAIN appeal of the folders is their portability. For those who need this feature there can really be no substitute. 2. The folders also appeal to those who like the modern-authentic idea of having a skin on frame boat, and a technical marvel like the Khats and other Feathercrafts is wonderful. 3. The Khats is an extremely beautiful craft. I love to look at it. If I had $4200 to spend on a work of art, and space to hang it, a Khats -- preferably in teal -- would definitely grace my living room wall. 4. The folders also appeal to those who like to tinker and improvise. Ralph D.'s wonderful "Folding Kayak Newsletter" is full of modifications and "fixes" that help make these boats more useful. There is a certain attraction to the mechanics of construction. Maintenance, such as constant lubrication, drying, and cleaning are a pleasure for those who love these boats. 5. Finally (he writes with trepidation), these boats are not for those whose primary pleasures are long expeditions, challenging seas, leaning, rolling, maneuvering, and big surf. Would Doug Lloyd ever paddle one in the conditions he prefers? And to follow up on Kirby's remarks, what SHOULD be our expectations from high-end (and high-priced) folding kayaks. I welcome comments (but my flame-retardant dry suit is being repaired!), particularly by experience paddlers who have paddled the Khats and hardshells. And please, no offense intended to Khats and other folding kayakers! As Kirby implies, we are simply talking about two different aspects of our great sport of sea kayaking. Josh ============================================================================== Dr. Joshua Teitelbaum, Research Fellow Tel: [972] 3-640-6448 Moshe Dayan Center for Middle Eastern and Fax: [972] 3-641-5802 African Studies Tel Aviv University Ramat Aviv, Tel Aviv 69978 Israel E-mail:teitelba_at_post.tau.ac.il www.dayan.org ============================================================================== *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I've never paddled a Khatsalano, so can't comment on your experience, but, to be fair, your remarks below really only apply to that particular folder - at least from your limited experience. Without trying to turn this into any more of a debate over the virtues and vices of folding kayaks, you really do need to do more research and paddle more boats to seriously make such blanket statements about folders. There are many accounts of people who have used Klepper folders, for example, for extreme ocean journeys and folding doubles (Klepper/Nautiraid) have been (and may still be) used by many nation's special armed forces units - the choice of these boats for these uses having much to do with their portability, stability, and durability. Folding boats are far from wall ornaments and the domain of flat-water paddlers who like to tinker. Glenn *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hey all, as a Khats owner I'd like to make a few quick remarks. I also own a Current Designs GTS, and the Khats holds pretty near the same amount of gear as the GTS. You just need to pack correctly. I have an illustrated file showing how I pack the boat if anyone is interested in it let me know. The seasock, which I also dislike, has been re-designed by Feathercraft and now has a wide neoprene rim. Water doesn't really leak through it. Regarding the flexing. I have been in small surf and haven't noticed it. If you haven't paddled a folding boat before, you will notice the flexing of the boat, but that is natural for any foldable. As for appropriateness in large seas. I've been having this argument with one of the clubs here. But I mean, c'mon, what do you think indigenous people paddled, Nordkapps? Sure, not aluminum, but frame boats for sure. The float bags are only needed when the boat is empty. Any non-bulkheaded boat should have float bags when unloaded. When loaded, your drybags become the float bags. It's an easy boat to roll and scull. One can't lie-back as much as some lower decked boat, but it is easier than my GTS and about as difficult as my Necky Arluk. Some things bug me about the Khats, but I think that some of the criticisms are unfounded. -Patrick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I'd like to emphasize certain issues in what I wrote: 1. My experience was indeed very limited (not more than 1 hour of playing, surfing and paddling together in this kayak). 2. The construction of particular kayak is very important. I can't say anything about what I didn't try. It could be better, but unfortunately I can't test it. 3. My skills are limited and the conclusion was only mine. 4. Kayak is a very personal issue. There's no black and white, I agree. I didn't like Khatsalano-S behavior, others can think differently. It also doesn't mean others are less experienced than me. I've got zero diplomatic skills, sorry if anybody got offended. I really didn't mean. It can be probably offensive for people who love this kayak and invested bunch of money in it. Sorry. 5. I didn't say it is impossible to roll Khatsalano-S. IT IS POSSIBLE, but I felt it was definitely less smooth than rolling other kayaks. For my wife it was much harder. And she's not bad kayaker, she's 4 stars BCU. But again, everything is relative. 6. I can believe it is possible to use Khatsalano-S in extreme conditions (if you solve the leaking problems). The key question is: how does the kayak behave in rough sea RELATIVELY to other kayaks. You know very well that one can survive rough sea on a car tire, but it's not what it was built for. 7. About oranges and other fruits: indeed, I compared folding Khatsalano-S to hardshell kayaks. But that's exactly what I wanted to check! I don't like boats, nor yachts, nor canoes, and nor catamarans. I chose kayaking because I love kayaking. And kayaking for me is not only paddling. And there's nothing bad if somebody prefers to stay dry in a kayak. It's just a question of what you love. :-) Michael Hoichman *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Dennis wrote: "Go Michael." Great critique. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Thought I'd add my two cents since I've paddled my Khats-S a lot in the surf. For background, I'm completely self taught and consider myself competent, safe and smart paddler. I'm 6'2" and 220 lbs and have been paddling for 12 years. > 1. Slow (comparing to the greenlander-style boats). I've never had a problem keeping up with others in mine (whether I'm paddling with my stick or Euro paddle), but it will never be as fast my skin on frame with a 19" beam. > 2. Rolling: I needed to use quite aggressive > high-brace at the end of the roll. I got into the whole Greenland style of paddling two years ago. I haven't had a problem switching between my two kayaks to perform Greenland style rolls (both layback and those that require a more aggressive hip snap). I actually think sculling the Khats is easier b/c the inflatable sponson likes to keep the boat on its side and not upside down. > 3. The sitting inside is very uncomfortable, the sea > sock is probably the > only solution for the folding kayaks, but it is very > inconvenient. Granted, the sea sock takes a little while to get used too, but this boat is by far and away more comfortable than my sof, or my wife's stripper. I spent 8 hours in it on my last paddle without getting out and had no tingling problems. > 4. The surfing was bad: the kayak dangerously bended > after taking a moderate > breaking wave (~1.5 meter) . . . I flew with the Khats to FL. and took the boat out in 6 - 8 ft. surf. I had a great day in the Khats, caught some nice long rides, nailed a few combat rolls in the surf zone, and missed a couple too. I managed to pitch pole the Khats bow to stern into the sand on too steep of a wave. Paddled in afterwards, inspected the boat, and it was fine. Wanted to take the boat while a Nor'easter blew through Delaware the other weekend, but I didn't have any cold water gear or rescue equipment. Maybe another day. I was nothing less than amazed at the punishment the Khats took. I didn't expect it to handle the abuse so well. > 5. The rudder accidentally opened and bended during > surfing. Amen. I hate the rudder. Tried it once, never used it again. Let my wive try it a month ago while paddling in a stiff breeze and the pedals slipped out of her reach and even came off track completely. Needless to say, now she's lopsided from only paddling on one side. > 6. The stern hatch accidentally opened during > surfing, and the water started > entering the kayak. Haven't had that problem, yet. . . > 7. Any change in kayak load (even small amount of > water) changed its > behavior. It could be difficult to predict its > behavior in trips (where the > weight can be changed). Never had the fortune to go on an extended trip, but I wouldn't doubt it. I think the boat behaves poorly in a stiff breeze. > 8. I was told that the kayak should be lifted by > lifting both rear and front > sides simultaneously. I can hardly imagine how > should I land with the kayak > during the trip (fully loaded). Should I ask 2 more > people help me carrying > it to the beach? Yes, b/c that boat, well my boat, is heavier than a Nordkapp( well over 60lbs. at least). I've been over this on the list before and won't bore anyone again. I actually rest the thigh brace on my shoulder and carry it--no damage yet. > 9. Rescue: how exactly can you risqué a Khatsalano > with help of another > kayak? You can't lift it, right? You have two > choices: get the sea sock out > of the kayak and empty it, or use a pump. Remember > that you really need a > risqué only in rough conditions where you can't > exactly use the pump. Also > pulling a sea sock doesn't seem to be a good idea: > the kayak will be flooded > with the first wave. Never had a durability with regard to rescues. I really like my Khats-S. A lot of people look down on the -S version. My first choice would have been the regular, but heck, my wive gave it too me as a surprise, so who am I to complain?!? It's a nice change of pace from my more demanding skin on frame. Anyways, there's a boat out there for everyone. Maybe the Khats isn't perfect, but I love it nonetheless. Lew Crenshaw Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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