Christmas at the inlaws (Amie's family is crazier than mine!) led me to idle away some time with a calculator and a recent issue of Sea Kayaker. I found a web site indicating that Unca Timmy's sponsons are 40 inches long and 6 inches in diameter. Ignoring the shape at the end (i.e. assuming they are a cylinder) gives a volume of 17.7 liters each side. This provides a maximum bouyancy of 39 lb per side (fully submerged). Assuming a max beam of 22 inches, the center of bouyancy of the sponson is 11 + 3 = 14 inches from the kayak centerline, which yields a maximum righting moment of 14 * 39/12 = 45.5 ft-lb. (A paddle float, by comparison yields about 90 or so ft-lb righting moment.) There's a bit of a fudge on the geometry here, since I'm taking the moment arm for a level kayak and using the force in a fully submerged sponson (implying a heeled kayak). The Dec 2001 issue shows the stability curve for a Viking Expedition (21.75 in. beam). I look at it and compare the curves for a 150 paddler with and without 100 lb of cargo. The difference is about 40 ft-lb. Interesting. I checked other single kayaks in other issues and most show the same general trend - fully loaded without sponsons is similar to empty with sponsons. The reason I did this was because I've been curious about the fact that my experiments with the sponsons a couple of years ago found them to not be particularly tremendous at stabilizing a kayak compared to unohoo's claims. But I've had a hard time squaring my experiments with seeing a friend demonstrate standing in an empty kayak with sponsons. I've done lots of playing (i.e. rolling, self- and assisted-rescue practice and general fooling around (including paddling while standing)) in an empty kayak, but rarely with a fully loaded kayak. So: Has anyone stood up in a heavily loaded kayak? is it particularly difficult to balance? Is 100 lb cargo much of an upper limit on typical loads? (I've never weighed all my gear) It sounds high to me. Mike PS - these numbers aren't the same as redoing the Nautilus model with and without sponsons. Don't quote them to friends with any built-in assumptions. This is strictly back-of-the-envelope fooling around. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
If I understand you correctly....yer saying that sponsons aren't that much good!? I just re-watched the Easy Rider video for the umpteenth time (hey...two hours of kayaks in places such as Tahiti, Belize....Puget Sound ain't bad) and they tout their rescue/re-entry/stabilizer system which, as far as I can make out involves two metal thingees screwed onto your deck that keep the paddle shaft in place, and then two inflatable paddlefloats (one on each blade). Can anyone comment on these? Will ER sell them to people who don't own ER boats? (I called yesterday - got a machine...guess they're off in Tahiti for the holidays). BTW, Mike, you certainly are a brave one to open this never-ending can of worms. sandy kramer who is actually feeling quite chilly in Miami....after a scorching Xmas day, it ain't so bad....should warm up by the weekend. Don't know how you northerners stand months of this weather :) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
From: <Gypsykayak_at_aol.com> > If I understand you correctly....yer saying that sponsons aren't that much > good!? I'm saying that they aren't all that Timmy-boy claims they are. Given his claims, that's not saying much. Like all rescue equipment, they have pros and cons. Unca Timmy exaggerates the pros and ignores or bluffs away the cons. This is a disservice to his customers and to the product, but he doesn't seem to see it that way. Like all reentry techniques, they require practice and without practice, they can be difficult to use. For example, one test I tried was to simulate a panicky paddler who grabs the sponsoned kayak and tries to muscle his way aboard. This caused the kayak to flip rather quickly. Like the paddle float rescue or assisted rescues, you have to thrust yourself onto the kayak and keep your center of gravity low while wiggling around. Sponsons do work but they aren't magic. They have a place in the kayak and canoe world as a piece of safety equipment. They are not a panacea. > BTW, Mike, you certainly are a brave one to open this never-ending can of > worms. Maybe foolish. I'm just belatedly applying numbers to the thing to get a better feel for how they work. If my ideas are correct, I can understand how they can appear to work wonders (like allowing someone to stand in a sponsoned kayak) while they don't allow me to get in panic-style. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Mike asked: <SNIP>>>>>>>Has anyone stood up in a heavily loaded kayak? is it particularly difficult to balance? Is 100 lb cargo much of an upper limit on typical loads? (I've never weighed all my gear) It sounds high to me.<<<<<< Back when we began selling the first Mariner, around 1981, a competitor started telling everybody how tippy it was. It was pretty tippy too being all of 20.5" wide. For comparison, some thought it more stable than a Nordkapp, but I thought it wasn't quite as stable as a Nordkapp. Anyway, that store had a photo contest where all of the photo contest entries were posted in their store. So I stuck about 50 pounds of rocks in the Mariner under the float bags one cold November day and Cam shot up a roll of film of me standing in that kayak. I was prepared to get wet with a wetsuit under my clothes but never got wet. Because of the wind I had to stand up and get back down to paddle back out (to good picture range) many times too. Incidentally: On the same roll of film Cam took that day there is a picture of me inflating one of the homemade sponsons I had made (from float bags inflated inside sleeping bag stuff sacks). I had sewn webbing and buckles on to the stuff sacks to affix these inflatable "sponsons" to each side of the kayak. I even had a strap in the middle to buckle the sponsons together under the kayak and so I could pull them down into the water for increasing the stability. I was testing the sponson concept for the self-rescue possibilities (and for the possibility of stabilizing the kayak for sleeping or spending the night in it). This picture is what is known as "prior art" in the patent game. It and several other prior uses of "sponsons" on kayaks that are documented well prior to Sponsonman having applied for a patent on his sponsons pretty much renders the patent useless. (It was so poorly written as to be virtually worthless already). If anybody would like to "do sponsons right" to make them more functional or address some of the shortcomings of what is now available (but have been stopped by the idea that sponsons are already patented) probably has little to worry about (besides Tim's wrath, legal threats, and never ending written diatribes anywhere he can't be stopped). But, even then he is more likely to skewer himself with his own pen than damage his intended target. But, I digress. Back to Mike's other question: 100 pounds seems like a pretty light load to me. "Now where did I pack that kitchen sink?" Five gallons of water weighs 40 pounds and I've often added more water than that to my already 100 plus pound load for a trip of a week or more. Without checking Mike's math, I'll stick my neck out and say that his conclusions sound about right to me as to the relative stability of the different ways of stabilizing a kayak that I have experienced. Matt Broze http://www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 3:08 AM -0800 12/28/01, Matt Broze wrote: >Snip > >If anybody would like to "do >sponsons right" to make them more functional or address some of the >shortcomings of what is now available (but have been stopped by the idea >that sponsons are already patented) probably has little to worry about >(besides Tim's wrath, legal threats, and never ending written diatribes >anywhere he can't be stopped). But, even then he is more likely to skewer >himself with his own pen than damage his intended target. I'm not particularly interested in taking on the manufacturing/marketing/legal challenge of making a better sponson but it could be an interesting exercise for paddlewise to figure out what the "ideal" sponson would be, and how it would be implemented. So, what are the characteristics of the ideal sponson? How, would this be implemented? BTW, for the purpose of discussion, let's assume sponsons are a good idea. Nick -- Nick Schade Guillemot Kayaks 824 Thompson St Glastonbury, CT 06033 (860) 659-8847 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 12/28/01 10:39:01 AM, schade_at_guillemot-kayaks.com writes: << BTW, for the purpose of discussion, let's assume sponsons are a good idea. Nick >> LOL this question actually got me to thinking about them. Joan *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
From: "Nick Schade" <schade_at_guillemot-kayaks.com> > So, what are the characteristics of the ideal sponson? When I tried sponsonman's product, the biggest complaint I had was the time required to inflate. The two sponsons have a total volume over 35 liters, compared to a double-chambered paddle float with only 7 or 8 liters (according to one web site - I never verified this... I just now measured my paddle float and it's more like 17.5 litres, so about the same as one sponson*). The difference in time is significant when you're in the water. Leaving them inflated on the rear deck increases wind load on the kayak. Autoinflating means expensive CO2 cartridges. Reducing the volume and levering them further outboard may be one approach. That would move them into the category of what I understand Sandy to be asking about - the Easy Rider type. Rather than use up a paddle, perhaps a light pair of carbon fiber tubes on either side, each fitted into a socket on the side of the kayak's hull (Teiken used to provide this on his kayaks as an option - they took a half paddle with paddle float in lieu of rear deck bungies holding a paddle). For a real pie in the sky approach, how about going the Triak route, but with the sponsons faired into the hull in the retracted state? Mike *This means my calculations about the stability of paddlefloats on paddles in other recent posts are well underestimated. Lesson: always verify web based information! *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 10:36 AM 12/28/01 -0500, Nick Schade wrote: >I'm not particularly interested in taking on the >manufacturing/marketing/legal challenge of making a better sponson >but it could be an interesting exercise for paddlewise to figure out >what the "ideal" sponson would be, and how it would be implemented. http://www.givensliferafts.com has an enlightening video on their site of their buoyed survival raft versus a standard raft. Working off that design theory I would think a better approach to a sponson would be a pair of pair of funnel shaped tubes tubes that are weighted at the smaller opening with a bouyant "ring" on the wide upper end of the tube. The two support tubes would then be deployed one on each side of the kayak. Instead of working off the theory of increasing the beam to improve stability this would add "ballast" to each side of the hull. A semi quick emptying mechanism would be needed for each support funnel, this might be accomplished by attaching a cord or strap to the lower, weighted ring, so that it could be pulled up dumping water from the larger upper opening. I haven't thought about how to secure the assembly to the kayak. It might be a simple as wrapping a connecting strap around a deck line on each side of the kayak before deploying the funnels. http://www.seaanchore.com has a discussion of drogues and sea anchors. kirk *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
From: "Kirk Olsen" <kolsen_at_imaginelan.com> > At 10:36 AM 12/28/01 -0500, Nick Schade wrote: > > Instead of working off the theory of increasing the beam to improve stability this would > add "ballast" to each side of the hull. Neat idea. Along those lines, why not a deployable weighted keel? Get a long, light tube along the keel (perhaps inside a channel which would have the side effect of stiffening the hull longitudinally) that is hinged at one end and with a heavy, compact weight at the other (depleted uranium, anyone?). The weight and tube could be teardrop shaped for minimum drag when deployed. If the weight is blade-like, it would provide dynamic damping to rolling moments as well. When the paddler is in the water, s/he releases the tube, which swings down and locks into place. Leaving it down would provide stability after re-entry. If the lock yields a bit, it would handle impact, like rudder blades and skeg. There's a definite downside: seaweed. And currents. And shallow water. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Fri 28 Dec 2001, Michael Daly wrote: > Along those lines, why not a deployable weighted keel? Get a long, light > tube along the keel (perhaps inside a channel which would have the side > effect of stiffening the hull longitudinally) that is hinged at one end and > with a heavy, compact weight at the other (depleted uranium, anyone?). > The weight and tube could be teardrop shaped for minimum drag > when deployed. If the weight is blade-like, it would provide dynamic > damping to rolling moments as well. Dynamic damping, hmmmm.. Ok, I take it back, internal side buoyancy is a bad idea. It is the realitive instability of the flooded kayak that makes it easy to roll. While adding internal side buoyancy would not affect the paddling characteristics, not add much weight (half moon shaped foam) and only occupy space otherwise (normally) unused, it would negatively affect the rolling characteristics. That is an unacceptable design characteristic. Good luck making a better spoonson Mr Daly. -- Mike McNally mmcnally3_at_prodigy.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
From: "Michael Daly" <michaeldaly_at_rogers.com> > Leaving them inflated on the rear deck increases wind load on the > kayak. Autoinflating means expensive CO2 cartridges. I just thought of another way to make an auto-inflating sponson. This from thinking in terms of a Thermarest. Make the sponsons with a long internal coil spring inside. Open a valve on one end and let the spring expand, filling the tube with air. This would be like those collapsible garden waste buckets and dirty laundry hampers that have recently arrived on the scene (Lee Valley and Ikea respectively - couldn't find online photos). This wouldn't create a rigidly inflated sponson, but a few puffs after the spring inflates it would do the trick. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
From: "Michael Daly" <michaeldaly_at_rogers.com> > Make the sponsons with a long internal coil spring inside. Open > a valve on one end and let the spring expand, filling the tube with > air. BTW, this same approach could be used for paddlefloats - pleated (bellowed) sides and straight ends - slot for the paddle blade at one end. Spring like those self erecting tents. Hmmm... Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
From: "Matt Broze" <mkayaks_at_oz.net> > Mike asked: > <SNIP>>>>>>>Has anyone stood up in a heavily loaded kayak? is it > particularly difficult to balance? > > Is 100 lb cargo much of an upper limit on typical loads? (I've never > weighed all my gear) It sounds high to me.<<<<<< > > Back when we began selling the first Mariner, around 1981, a competitor > [...] Thanks for the comments, Matt. > Without checking Mike's math, I'll stick my neck out and say that his > conclusions sound about right to me as to the relative stability of the > different ways of stabilizing a kayak that I have experienced. While I haven't worked anything out in detail, the conclusion I'm aiming for is that if an empty kayak with sponsons is "stable enough", then a loaded kayak is also stable enough without sponsons (and plenty stable with sponsons). My rough estimates suggest for several kayaks and sufficient load, this may be true. If this is true, another conclusion would be that an empty kayak with a paddle float is as stable as a loaded kayak with sponsons! There are a couple of BIG assumptions here - I haven't worked out the stability of a loaded/unloaded kayaks _without_ a paddler (the condition where the paddler is in the water) and the condition where the cockpit has water in it consistent with a wet exit and recovery. Both of these could change these conclusions dramatically. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 12/28/2001 6:09:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, mkayaks_at_oz.net writes: << Without checking Mike's math, I'll stick my neck out and say that his conclusions sound about right to me as to the relative stability of the different ways of stabilizing a kayak that I have experienced. >> Matt, any comments about Easy Rider's two-iinflatable paddlefloats-on-each-end-of-a-paddle stabilizer that is affixed to a kayak? sandy kramer miami, where our 3-day "winter" is waning....:) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
sandy kramer asked: > > Matt, any comments about Easy Rider's two-inflatable > paddlefloats-on-each-end-of-a-paddle stabilizer that is >affixed to a kayak? > I'm not sure how Easy Rider has adapted our two paddlefloat outrigger method of stabilizing a kayak for towing an incapacitated paddler (or stabilizing the kayak for fishing, sleeping, or whatever). We have advocated this possibility for years (see our "Rescue Float" manual on our website near the end of that manual under the heading "Kayak Stabilization"). I know Easy Rider kayaks often have a recessed slot for a paddle shaft sized bar that can be used to raft two kayaks together and as a way to help hold the outriggered paddle in position for a self rescue. The letter "C" after their model names stands for "Catamaran ready" and the letter "R" stands for "Rescue ready" (so CRX stands for Catamaran, Rescue and Expedition = hatches and bulkheads by their definition--ready). I'm guessing that is the system they are using to hold the paddle in place for the dual outriggers use as well. I think I once saw their video, years ago, but don't recall that part in it then. Maybe you have a new version of their video that I haven't seen. If in fact what you have asked about is what we have been advocating, I'd say it has several advantages over strap on sponsons. The one I like the best is that (especially if you can hold the paddle from rotating or even if can easily reposition it if it has) and you only inflate the top half of a two chamber paddlefloat, the outriggers will only snag in the water when one has tipped the kayak far enough to maybe need the added support they can then provide, but, they won't add any drag to the kayak hull for most towing, like sponsons do. Tim's sponsons are especially bad this way because the straps under the kayak are at each end and if they are tightened down enough to stabilize the kayak much (and not have the kayak also sliding around inside the harness) they also are curved down at the ends--like a hot dog--and plow up a lot of water when moving forward or backwards and (in contrast to Tim's claims) greatly increase the drag on the kayak being towed or paddled. If you are going to try to paddle (as opposed to being towed) with the two sided paddlefloat outrigger (you asked about) you are going to have to mount the paddle further rearward or cut your paddle stroke very short with each stroke so the paddles don't try to take up the same space at the same time...amid loud clashing noises. Then again, that just might be good training to force one to get the paddle blade out of the water early (as advocated by racers). You can probably use your normal deck lines (if set up for fixed outrigger paddle float rescues) to hold your paddle well enough to try this stabilization technique out for yourself. If you like it or can see the potential, it will probably help if you can rig things to fix the paddle more securely in place. There is a device called a Pad-L-Rac from Allin Associated Products http://www.padlrac.com/ that can be adapted to many kayaks that will hold the paddle fairly well. I don't think it would be hard to fashion your own solution (adapted to your particular kayak) with a few cleats and cords, if the idea appeals to you. I especially like this for towing because with two paddler there should already be two paddlefloats available to use on the victims kayak if each have one for self-rescue. Matt Broze http://www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 06:32 PM 12/28/01 -0800, Matt Broze wrote: > There is a device called a Pad-L-Rac from >Allin Associated Products http://www.padlrac.com/ that can be adapted to >many kayaks that will hold the paddle fairly well. I don't think it would be >hard to fashion your own solution (adapted to your particular kayak) with a >few cleats and cords, if the idea appeals to you. >I especially like this for towing because with two paddler there should >already be two paddlefloats available to use on the victims kayak if each >have one for self-rescue. One of the things that impresses me about my Nimbus Telkwa is that is comes with a set of straps already fastened to the deck intended for sticking a paddle blade under for a paddlefloat rescue. Its one of the detail things that impresses me about the boat. Shortly after I got the boat, I was out paddling with a friend on a small inland lake when he became sick due to a prescription drug reaction, and he was having trouble staying conscious and upright. Rather than trying any elaborate rescue technique, I flagged down a couple guys in a bass boat and had them take him back to the launch, while I towed the boat back, no big deal. But we talked about the incident afterwards, and what we might have done had we been in a more remote situation. One of the ideas we came up with would have been to take a paddle and put it under my paddlefloat straps as a crossbar, with a paddlefloat on either end, and trade boats so I could tow him back. There's a fly in that ointment -- I'm not sure I could have gotten into his boat. He did work up a way of fixing a paddle a little more solidly in such cases again. -- Wes --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wes Boyd's Kayak Place http://www2.dmci.net/wesboyd/kayak.htm Kayaks for Big Guys (And Gals) | Trip Reports | Places To Go | Boats & Gear --------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
One thought I had was to attach the two sponsons to each other with a full length bit of fabric instead of straps at each end. The fabric could be thinner than the straps creating less drag and it could be shaped to help maintain a "good" shape. The tricky part would be making it so it would be adjustable for different size kayaks, but that might not be necessary. Nick ><snip> >towing, like sponsons do. Tim's sponsons are especially bad this way because >the straps under the kayak are at each end and if they are tightened down >enough to stabilize the kayak much (and not have the kayak also sliding >around inside the harness) they also are curved down at the ends--like a hot >dog--and plow up a lot of water when moving forward or backwards and (in >contrast to Tim's claims) greatly increase the drag on the kayak being towed >or paddled. -- Nick Schade Guillemot Kayaks 824 Thompson St Glastonbury, CT 06033 (860) 659-8847 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Sandy wrote: >sandy kramer who is actually feeling quite chilly in Miami....after a >scorching Xmas day, it ain't so bad....should warm up by the weekend. Don't >know how you northerners stand months of this weather. > Sandy, I know just how you feel. Before Christmas we were having wonderful weather up here in Alaska. Temperatures a crisp 20 degrees below zero, and two feet of powery snow. We could track our camp moose (Ode, Chocolate, Coco, Twigs), fox (Sly), bear (Luther) no to mention the squirrels (Sam, and Gertrude) We could hitch up the dog team and hit the trail! Then all hell broke loose. Christmas Day it was 45 degrees above zero! Now my igloo is melting, the snow has gone away and we can't track anything. It is too hot to run the dogs and my long underwear got to itching so I had to take it off. Hope is on the way. The weatherman said it should start getting cold again real soon. I can't wait. Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow. Bob in too warm Alaska *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 12/29/2001 1:48:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, revkayak_at_mtaonline.net writes: << Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow. Bob in too warm Alaska >> LOL I guess that's why they make chocolate, strawberry, and vanilla :) sandy kramer thankfully back in tank top and shorts in Miami *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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