Nick Schade wrote: Why are you attributing the performance difference to the chine shape. The typical kayaker edges more easily and consistently with hard chines than soft. That gives the kayaker a greater sense of control and right or wrong, they attribute that level of performance to the chines, not the complete hull. I believe Mr. Whilden spoke of this, though at a much higher level of skill, when he reported countering broaches by leaning into the wave and rudder opposite. Nick Schade wrote: Are the Khatsalano and NordKapp exactly the same except for chine shape? Isn't the Khatsalano a folding boat and the Nordkapp fiberglass? Don't they have different lengths and widths. Aren't they actually completely different boats other than being vaguely "Greenland Style". No, they are different boats, however, what I was relating to was the fact that in surf, clapotis, etc the hard chines give the appearance of better boat control. I will be clearer next time. The designer may be in a better position to say why it is, including other aspects of hull shape. Yes, the Khat's folds and the Nordkapp takes up 18 feet of garage space. The Khat's is 17'10"long x 22"b and the Nordkapp Jubilee HMC is 18'long x 21.25"b. Again, yes they are completely different, and I was not infering that they are the same, nor was I referring to the completely different ride of a hardshell vs. a folder. "Vaguely Greenland Style" is hell on their marketing departments Nick, ease up! Nick Schade wrote: Why is it the chine shape making the difference and not some other aspect of the design? Isn't that like tasting an apple and an onion and saying the apple tastes better because its red. The chine is what the typical consumer has direct control over and what they do with that chine leads to a greater perception of performance. Of course, we now know to look for other things that will complete the picture. Perhaps you will deconstruct one of your hulls and educate us on why the placement of certain features? As for apples and onions, apples taste better to the typical consumer because of a higher sugar content. We know this from double blind studies conducted back in the '60's where sample groups were polled and compared with sample groups of those known to have visual color deficiencies. Each reported a more partisan palette toward the apples. Have a great day, Rob Gibbert *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 12:18 PM -0500 1/21/02, Rcgibbert_at_aol.com wrote: > >Nick Schade wrote: Are the Khatsalano and NordKapp exactly the same except >for >chine shape? Isn't the Khatsalano a folding boat and the Nordkapp >fiberglass? Don't they have different lengths and widths. Aren't they >actually completely different boats other than being vaguely >"Greenland Style". > > >No, they are different boats, however, what I was relating to was the fact >that in surf, clapotis, etc the hard chines give the appearance of better >boat control. I will be clearer next time. The designer may be in a better >position to say why it is, including other aspects of hull shape. Yes, the >Khat's folds and the Nordkapp takes up 18 feet of garage space. The Khat's is >17'10"long x 22"b and the Nordkapp Jubilee HMC is 18'long x 21.25"b. Again, >yes they are completely different, and I was not infering that they are the >same, nor was I referring to the completely different ride of a hardshell vs. >a folder. "Vaguely Greenland Style" is hell on their marketing departments >Nick, ease up! > My point is it is kind of silly to take two completely different boats that perform differently and then attribute all the performance difference to just one aspect of design. While the chines may appear to give boat control, appearance can be deceptive. However, I am not saying that chines don't effect the control of the boat in the conditions you stated, just that you don't have enough information to determine whether the chines really are what makes the difference. For controllability you also need to consider (in no particular order and not exhaustive): the seat, foot braces, bottom shape, side flare, rocker, thigh braces, boat length, boat width, block coefficient, everything that contributes to stability, skeg shape, and with skin-on-frame and foldables: frame stiffness and skin tension. By ignoring these you infer that they don't matter. The only possible reason they wouldn't matter is because they are all the same for both boats. -- Nick Schade Guillemot Kayaks 824 Thompson St Glastonbury, CT 06033 (860) 659-8847 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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