Front page newspaper report in yesterday's Anchorage Daily News of a kayaker death near Homer, Alaska. See report at http://www.adn.com/front/story/753477p-803506c.html Comments? -- Bob Hume *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
That is a very sad report, but thank you for sharing. It's a great tragedy to see beginners die (or nearly die) because they are paddling in cold water without proper preparation. From the newspaper account, it appears they did not have any kind of thermal protection, and any amount of rescue training or any rescue gear and/or signaling devices. The newspaper could have glossed over these details, and I hope full details are eventually made public, but it appears that this tragedy would have been entirely preventable with proper gear and preparation. The newspaper called them "experienced", but I would disagree on that point. Kevin Whilden ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Hume" <bobh_at_lbblawyers.com> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 9:52 AM Subject: [Paddlewise] Sad news of kayaker death near Homer, Alaska > Front page newspaper report in yesterday's Anchorage Daily News of a kayaker > death near Homer, Alaska. See report at > > http://www.adn.com/front/story/753477p-803506c.html *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
A friend forwarded this to me earlier today. If it is the same article I saw I was curious, of course, about how prepared they were for immersion and if the really were experience as the article stated (stating they were experienced having paddled 9 miles in the past). A tragedy as well. I have been reading a book this past week which is a collection of stories from Climbing magazine from the past 30 years. As It really strikes me how common climbing deaths are among the "hardcore" or "elite" of the sport, at least compared to sea kayaking. All in all, I do believe that the awareness and respect most paddlers bring to the sport account for a better-than-average safety record. -Patrick At Wednesday, 23 January 2002, "Bob Hume" <bobh_at_lbblawyers.com> wrote: >Front page newspaper report in yesterday's Anchorage Daily News of a kayaker >death near Homer, Alaska. See report at > >http://www.adn.com/front/story/753477p-803506c.html > >Comments? > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 1/23/02 7:36:22 PM !!!First Boot!!!, patrick_at_patrickmaun.com writes: << about how prepared they were for immersion and if the really were experience as the article stated (stating they were experienced having paddled 9 miles in the past). >> The issue of "experience" is one even kayakers differ on. I get looks like i'm out of my mind to paddle 15 to 18 miles a day. When I say I paddle in Dec. and Jan. in the DC area the looks start to become ones of pity. This is from OTHER paddlers, much less nonpaddlers. Paddling 9 miles sound like a lot for some. I think it is hardly worth getting the boat out for unless I've got good company to compensate. That is an issue of distance only. What most of us talk about is not distance but variety of conditions we are familiar with and prepared to cope with. That is hard for outsiders to have any real concept of. Were they experienced? Obviously, not well enough. I feel so sad for them and the family of the girl who died. We think we know what we are doing until something or someone hits us over the head hard enough to convince us of the fact that we lack important information. We, in CPA, get a hard time from some paddlers for our emphasis on safety but if one life is spared some level of suffering, it is worth all the "safety nazi" talk in the world. Joan *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
----- Original Message ----- From: <JSpinner2_at_aol.com> > We, in CPA, get a hard time from some paddlers for our emphasis on safety > but if one life is spared some level of suffering, it is worth all the > "safety nazi" talk in the world. > Joan, thanks for your comments. They have got me to thinking... (nobody say, "imagine that!") Why do people who preach safety in the realm of sea kayaking often find resistance and derision? Especially since in the realm of whitewater kayaking, people who preach safety are seen almost as heroes (e.g. Charlie Walbridge). There must be some new paddlers on Paddlewise who have recently "seen the light" on safety. I would be very interested to read your story of why you initially thought you were "safe", and then what experience caused you to re-evaluate your safety. Was it something you read on Paddlewise, or in other print media, or learned from a club or clinic? Conversely, if some new paddlers started out as an immediate Safety Wonk, with full drysuit, flares, VHF, float bag, tow system, river knife, etc..., what convinced you to shell out the "long green"? Was it the kayak salesman? Did you ever wonder if you were being victimized with all those accessories? Another question is the definition of "expert". I'm trying to figure out how anyone, even a newspaper reporter, could call someone without safety gear or thermal protection while paddling in Alaska in the *winter*, could call them an expert. Is there anyone here who had at some point thought they were "expert" and then had an experience that exposed your folly? I would love to hear your story. Cheers, Kevin Whilden PS. dont anyone be shy now! This is Safety Nazi's Anonymous... ;) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Kevin, As a first year paddler, reading "Deep Trouble" by Matt Broze and George Gronseth was a real eye-opener. Since then I do everything possible to avoid getting caught in a dangerous situation. Rick > Is there anyone here who had at some point thought >they were "expert" and then had an experience that exposed your folly? I >would love to hear your story. > >Cheers, >Kevin Whilden *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> -They have got me to thinking... Kevin, I don't quite fit either end of the scale, but here's my nickel (inflation....). I began Kayaking in January of 2000. I started with a boat, paddle and PFD - nothing else, not even a spray skirt. I'd only go in calm, flat water, and never strayed more than about 40-50 feet from shore. Now that my third year is underway, I have the boat, paddle, PFD, skirt, pump, paddle float, VHF, flares, mini survival kit, first aid kit, ya-da-dah-da-dah. I paddle year round (lowest air temp has been low thirties, water temp.... well, I had to detour due to ice). Highest winds have been sustained at 20-25 mph (I know, I should use knots) with gusts up to 35 (that was too much for me and my particular boat - I had a really hard time getting to the take-out). When I began in 2000, I bought BASIC SEA KAYAKING by Derek H. and subscribed to Canoe & Kayak. Those got me thinking a bit. Then, a few months later, I found P'WISE which was a real boon to my knowledge and awareness, and shortly afterward (due to P'Wise recommendations) read Matt's DEEP S___ (otherwise known as Deep Trouble). Incidentally, Matt, did I ever say "Thanks" for putting that book together?!?!? Okay, now my eyes were popped wide open and I started a serious effort to gain skills, get the right equipment, and so forth. I've still got a few things to aquire, and will for ever be building my skills, but those have come a long way inthe past couple years). FWIW, that's my story and I'm sticking to it. BTW - my in-laws and family think I'm totally nuts. First, for carrying all the gear when I go out into the Bay, and second, for going out at times when the water isn't silky smooth like a mirror. Go figure...... Rick - Poquoson, VA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 08:03 AM 1/24/02 -0800, Kevin Whilden wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: <JSpinner2_at_aol.com> > > We, in CPA, get a hard time from some paddlers for our emphasis on >safety > > but if one life is spared some level of suffering, it is worth all the > > "safety nazi" talk in the world. > > > >Joan, thanks for your comments. They have got me to thinking... (nobody >say, "imagine that!") > >Why do people who preach safety in the realm of sea kayaking often find >resistance and derision? Especially since in the realm of whitewater >kayaking, people who preach safety are seen almost as heroes (e.g. Charlie >Walbridge). Two words: Recreational kayaks. OK, I'll elaborate. I think that whitewater is just perceived as dangerous (I wonder how many whitewater boaters never saw Deliverance...) so people that are entering into the realm of whitewater kayaking are probably assuming that because they're going to be in dangerous conditions some safety precautions are welcomed. Sea Kayaking, however, has a bit of an identity crisis. The range of craft and conditions runs the gamut from a wide flat bottom "Kiwi" type recreational boat on a small pond with nary a ripple, to 18' long, 20" wide touring boats paddled on the ocean with 10' swells. I would guess that many people just getting into sea kayaking are doing so in what they perceive to be pretty benign conditions. I think that most that are just starting or considering trying it still have a fear of tipping over and getting trapped inside the cockpit. That answer to that in the past few years has been the introduction of recreational kayaks touted as extremely stable and with the large open cockpits their users don't fear getting trapped even if they did tip over. Despite the little resemblance between a 10' long, 30" wide recreational boat and an 18' x 20" expedition ready touring boat, they're both called "sea kayaks". I would guess that in very few cases are recreational kayaks paddled in conditions in which someone would ever *need* a full drysuit, flares, VHF, float bag, tow system, or river knife. A lot of people that start out in recreational boats often do get into longer skinnier boats and gain the experience to tackle tougher conditions. Hopefully, if conditions warrant it, they'll start adding appropriate safety gear. >There must be some new paddlers on Paddlewise who have recently "seen the >light" on safety. I would be very interested to read your story of why you >initially thought you were "safe", and then what experience caused you to >re-evaluate your safety. Was it something you read on Paddlewise, or in >other print media, or learned from a club or clinic? I can think of a particular instance in which I was attempting to "show the light". It involves someone that participates here but I won't mention any names. I was paddling with a small group of people, most of which were in recreational kayaks. When we stopped for lunch I noticed that one person was paddling an Old Town Loon, a boat that is constructed of a poly/foam sandwhich that is touted as giving the boat enough flotation so that it won't sink. I noticed that the boat didn't have any float bags and asked about. I was told that it would float due the material it was made of and that it wasn't used in condition in which a capsize was likely anyway. Since there were several people in the group and we were at a shallow sloping beach with calm warm water I suggested that we try tipping it over to see what would happen. We tipped it over and it floated high, and even with a few inches of water in it could still be paddled the 20' or so to shore. Then we tipped it over and pushed down the gunwale to let the cockpit fill up. While the boat was in no danger of sinking, reentering the boat and trying to paddle it 20' was quite a chore. Once we got it to where we could stand up it wasn't easy to drag it through the water the last 10' or so to shore. It took three people to turn it over and get all the water out. One can imagine what might happen if a capsize occurred 300' from shore when paddling alone. As safety nazis, part of the problem might be how we go about helping people see the light. If it comes of as lecturing, or judgmental, any advice just isn't going to be very effective. I think experience in controlled conditions is the best teacher. Showing someone how to do a paddlefloat rescue in a pool is one thing. Describing a scenario where one might really need to perform a paddlefloat rescue after they've tried a couple in controlled conditions really stresses the importance of practicing it so that it's bombproof. >Another question is the definition of "expert". I'm trying to figure out >how anyone, even a newspaper reporter, could call someone without safety >gear or thermal protection while paddling in Alaska in the *winter*, could >call them an expert. Is there anyone here who had at some point thought >they were "expert" and then had an experience that exposed your folly? I >would love to hear your story. I've been downhill skiing for about 30 years. There was a time in the early 80's for a span of several years when I never skied with someone better than I . I skied the expert runs and resorts such as Squaw Valley with relative ease. Then one year a group of people I shared a ski cabin with joined the company race team. The first year they had several woman from the US team as pacesetters. After watching them beat everyone (at the largest amateur ski race in the country), and finishing just over the middle of the pack I felt awfully intermediate. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Kevin Whilden writes: > There must be some new paddlers on Paddlewise who have recently "seen the > light" on safety. I would be very interested to read your story of why you > initially thought you were "safe", and then what experience caused you to > re-evaluate your safety. Was it something you read on Paddlewise, or in > other print media, or learned from a club or clinic? My girlfriend had been paddling in some of the protected waters in New Jersey for around 10 years before moving out here to Washington. She has great balance and had a boat that was too large for her, so it was quite stable. She owned the basic safety equipment, along with a wetsuit and drysuit. If conditions were fairly calm she would often paddle only wearing poly. About 1 1/2 years ago we were paddling out of Everett, WA in June, it started out as a fairly calm day and we were outside of Jetty Island when she spotted Gray Whale spouts out in the channel and started paddling out. While she was only paying attention to the Whales and trying to get close enough so that she could hopefully see them, I was watching this big black cloud coming in. The wind hit hard and fast. It was easily 25 kts and the wind waves quickly grew to 3+ feet. It was within both of our capabilities to handle, but she found herself tightening up and not rolling with the waves because she was nervous about not having her dry suit on. When she got back in she decided that I was right and that we should take some lessons. We also decided to get wet suits that were comfortable enough to wear on all but the hottest days. A few days later I was in Mariner and i asked Matt for a recomendation for an instructor and also picked up a copy of deep trouble. > Conversely, if some new paddlers started out as an immediate Safety Wonk, > with full drysuit, flares, VHF, float bag, tow system, river knife, etc..., > what convinced you to shell out the "long green"? Was it the kayak > salesman? Did you ever wonder if you were being victimized with all those > accessories? Unlike my girlfriend, I am more in the Safety Wonk category. She only got me started paddling about 3 years ago, but it was something I had thought about doing for quite a while. I actually found paddlewise because I was looking for independant reviews of sp_at_~$_at_~s and was intrigued by all the safety discussions. I still have to get some of the toys, mainly a drysuit and figure out a sensible way to carry and deploy parachute flares. I have lots to learn still. I think this is the year to take a kayak surfing class and work on my far from bombproof roll. > Another question is the definition of "expert". I'm trying to figure out > how anyone, even a newspaper reporter, could call someone without safety > gear or thermal protection while paddling in Alaska in the *winter*, could > call them an expert. Is there anyone here who had at some point thought > they were "expert" and then had an experience that exposed your folly? I > would love to hear your story. After being on paddlewise for a couple of years I consider myself ane expert. Quite a big claim, eh? I consider myself an expert at realizing that I have so much left to learn, yet I have learned far more than most people who take up kayaking. I have had a few "discussions" with people who think it's silly for me to have so much gear, I should just get one of these SOTs and I'll never have to worry about falling off because they are so stable. I usually try to convince them ot go buy a copy of Deep Trouble. I also use a line I stole from someone here that "kayaking is an in the water sport, not an on the water sport" For friends and people I meet in a friendly way while out paddling I try a much more gentle approach of discussing safty gear whenever the opprotunity presents itself. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
--- Kevin Whilden <kevin_at_yourplanetearth.org> wrote: > Why do people who preach safety in the realm of sea > kayaking often find > resistance and derision? >...<snip> > Conversely, if some new paddlers started out as an > immediate Safety Wonk, > with full drysuit, flares, VHF, float bag, tow > system, river knife, etc..., > what convinced you to shell out the "long green"? ... What convinced me from the beginning to not paddle outside my equipment/training level? I think it's exposure to the unbiased rage of nature. My house burned flat to the ground in 2 hours. My 47 year old husband dropped dead of cardiac arrest. S**t happens, it happens to anyone, specifically it happens to me. Exposure to this level of reality helps you develop a respect for forces you cannot control. You seek to understand the parameters of the environment you enter, and take precautions that tilt the odds of survival in your favor. You never forget that none of this eliminates risk, it merely reduces it. You reduce it to the level that is acceptable and go forward. Without exposure to "reality", for lack of a better word, folks fundamentally believe that s**t will not ever happen to them. I have not ever determined how to instill respect for potential consequence in anyone who is predisposed to cling to immortality/immunity. Broze/Gronseth and others who expose the consequences of folly through writing/lecture achieve this to some degree for those who choose to pay attention and/or read the book. The rest have to learn the lessons the hard way - and in fact, some avoid the lessons altogether through some magic or serendipity. Sea kayaking is routinely marketed as 'entry-level kayaking, accessible to everyone'. The marketing is a huge disservice, but sells a bunch of plastic. The only counteraction to the hype is public education and awareness from the kayaking community and the solid example of seasoned kayakers on the water. Take every soapbox opportunity - it may save a life! *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Kevin said: -------------------------------- <snip> , but it appears that this tragedy would have been entirely preventable with proper gear and preparation. The newspaper called them "experienced", but I would disagree on that point. --------------------------------- Proper gear and preparation can't off course, prevent every tragedy; but from the insinuations in the article, it sounds like lack of proper paddling attire or equivalent was a significant factor. More information would be beneficial, but ultimately, does not this incident once again demonstrate the primal fallacy with respect to individual safety awareness? I mean just how many paddlers are there out there who have managed to luckily stay upright (some for many years), heads firmly (though a few furtively, I'm sure) stuck up in the clouds? I rather think there are numerous paddlers in the fraternity who never knew how close they came to possible disaster in the first few years, having had that one wave with their name on it miss its appointment. I bet there are thousands, lending testament to how serendipitously inclined sea kayaking truly is -- and fortunately so. As for "experienced", I see this adjective time and time again, but unless one's experience is manifold and varied, it really means very little. I also refuse to place the label "experienced" on anyone who does not avail themselves to adequate forecast and real-time marine weather reports, both upstream and prevailing. An experienced paddler understands a marine weather synopsis in every detail, makes strong mental notes and/or journals their regional weather forecast information. It is very easy to develop your own "shorthand" in order to record relevant information accurately. An experienced paddler also has paddled in controlled conditions, in sea states above their expected norms. Hopefully this includes deep water rescue practice in those same conditions. And in the case of the couple in the article from Alaska, the significance of wave direction and topography may have been an other awareness issue. As far as preaching the safety message, gear and skill must be presented synonymously as important to the newer paddler. Most shops I would hazard, place an effort on achieving a good balance. In the end, there is an "perception point" with every adult paddler, where a little light goes off, where one realizes the dangers of cold water and other marine hazards. For some, that light is a small flicker like the slow rise of the sun in December; for others, it is an instant light bulb turning on at some point in there paddling career. And for others, they just come into the sport "already lighted up". I continue to predict more single, cold-water tandem kayak fatalities. I also continue to believe course participation with an emphasis on seamanship and boat handling will go a long way to making our sport safer and responsible. Alaska is also one of the last places an outdoorsman wants to screw up in. Recreational users of the outdoors generally understand this in Alaska, and accept the consequences. Living with them may be a bit harder. Doug Lloyd (recovering adrenaline junkie) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I have been out of state a few days and just picked up on this thread. FIRST THOUGH...WELCOME BACK DOUG! A couple comments on the Homer tradegy. The writers for the anchorage paper tend to be clueless when it comes to Kayaking. They have sometimes refered to sea kayaks as "canoes" so gleaming details from their write up is frustrating at best. They do a good job on dog mushing and hockey but not self propelled boats. I think this couple got lured into this tradegy for three reasons 1) It was an "Alaska thing to do". By that I mean, part of the life style up here is to push the edge of the envelope and then to brag about it later (and I am as bad as anyone else) To kayak on a winter day? "If you got the time and the weather...go for it" is a typical Alaskan attitude. 2) Good weather. Most of the winter Homer experiences cold weather and lots of wind. On rare occasions you get a warm (relative to Alaska that is) day when the sun is out and the wind is calm. Had I been in Homer I would have jumped at the chance. 3) False confidence. The paper said they had paddled to Homer last summer. Looking at the map this was no easy trip. They would have encounter some tidal currents and possible some rips plus have negociated a 4 mile open crossing. My guess is they had great weather , favorible winds and tide and some good luck. They probably ended the trip feeling pretty good about themselves knowing they did something few people would or could have done. So I am not surprised they had the false confidence they could handle a short day trip, especially when the weather looked so good. Unfortunately the wilderness is often unforgiving of false confidence. Sadly their most serious mistake was that they were totally unprepared for the change in weather and were not dressed propertly. I am surprised though, that two poeple who had lived there for two years didn't know how fast the weather can change and the effects of cold water and hypothermia. The harsh verdict is this :they were overconfident in their abilities and let their confidence lure them into a situation they were totally unprepared for. Unfortunately where it be hiking, climbing, mushing, skiing, kayaking ect. the Alaskan wilderness doesn't tolerate the overconfident and underprepared. Bob "The Great Land" Alaska *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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