G'Day, My forward sweep is not good! When stationary I can get a forward sweep to move a sea kayak about 45 degrees but when moving the forward sweep gives only about 20 degrees - less on choppy water unless I'm on top of a wave. This compares with 90 degrees rotation for a reverse sweep whether moving or stationary. Attempts to do better wind up improving nothing but my roll:~). Can anyone tell me what should be possible and suggest techniques to improve without too much capsizing. I'm finding this to be one of the most difficult manovers - harder than learning how to roll in fact! All the best and thanks, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Peter, when moving forward, concentrate your sweeping action to the stern (as in stern draw). It's real tough to get the bow to leave it's *track* when underway, <it's pushing into high pressure h20> but way easy to get the stern to slide over <low pressure, eddy water>. Hope this helps. btw, did you get your Denzo kits? Steve *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
It is not unusual for a boat to be harder to turn when it is moving. But make sure you are really sweeping your blade out wide. Concentrate your force onthe last part of the stroke. Rotate your body so you can bring your blade in close to the side of the kayak as far back, behind the cockpit as comfortable. Putting power into the stoke when the blade is beside the cockpit and moving straight back will primarily accelerate your boat forward with little effect on turning. At 5:38 PM +1100 1/7/02, PeterO wrote: >G'Day, > >My forward sweep is not good! > >When stationary I can get a forward sweep to move a sea kayak about 45 >degrees but when moving the forward sweep gives only about 20 degrees - less >on choppy water unless I'm on top of a wave. This compares with 90 degrees >rotation for a reverse sweep whether moving or stationary. Attempts to do >better wind up improving nothing but my roll:~). Can anyone tell me what >should be possible and suggest techniques to improve without too much >capsizing. I'm finding this to be one of the most difficult manovers - >harder than learning how to roll in fact! > >All the best and thanks, PeterO -- Nick Schade Guillemot Kayaks 824 Thompson St Glastonbury, CT 06033 (860) 659-8847 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hi folks. This is gonna be long -- I got carried away ;-> Peter O wrote: When stationary I can get a forward sweep to move a sea kayak about 45 degrees but when moving the forward sweep gives only about 20 degrees - less on choppy water unless I'm on top of a wave. This compares with 90 degrees rotation for a reverse sweep whether moving or stationary. Attempts to do better wind up improving nothing but my roll:~). Jim T's response included: ....a stationary boat turns better with a forward sweep than a reverse <and> The bow forward sweep is quite strong if the legs are engaged - push the feet away from the paddle using your waist muscles. A different Jim added: A slow sweep seems more productive than a fast one. John's response included: If you place the paddle in the water and think of rotating the boat with your torso rather than pulling the paddle through the water it works well but it's a lot easier to do from a stationary position. There are a couple of other things to think about. Keep a low paddle angle and extend the outside arm to draw a "C" in the water. Finish the stroke by making sure that the paddle blade comes all the way back near the stern. he adds: Probably the most effective addition to a sweep stroke is a good amount of edging. That usually involves tilting the blade back just a little to provide a little bracing support. [You may or may not want to do this -- it's a good thing to do if it adds to your sense of security -bv] One exercise that I like is to do a forward sweep with the boat edged toward the side with the paddle in the water. At the end of the sweep flip the blade over to a low brace position and skim it across the surface toward the bow for another sweep without changing the boat edging. Bob writing now: This is all very good stuff! Permit me to summarize and explain some of these points (with deference to the many superior paddlers on this list). Let's start with edging. When you edge a boat (by raising one knee and lowering the opposite butt), you keep your center of gravity over the boat. The hips are slanted relative to the upper body, which is upright. Often the head acts as a counterweight, keeping the center of gravity over the boat by cocking over to the side of the raised knee. If you're capsizing a lot while sweeping agressively, you're probably *leaning* -- tilting hips, upper body and head in line such that your center of gravity is no longer over the boat. If this fits what you are doing, then you'll benefit greatly from edging practice until you are perfectly comfortable with it. The technical advantage of edging is that it changes your hull shape. It partially removes the sharp bow and stern keels, which are designed to help your boat track straight, from the water. That's why it's easier to turn on the crest of a wave. In addition, your edged hull has a shorter waterline and has more rocker than does the vertical hull. This also makes it easier to turn the boat. Jim T mentioned your legs and John talked about torso rotation. When done effectively, they're part of the same action. Most beginners, and many not-so-new paddlers, keep their upper bodies more or less aligned with their kayaks when attempting to sweep. This results in an awkward finishing position and an ineffective sweep. As John says, think about planting your paddle close to your feet and then using your BODY to sweep it around to the stern. That means that at the end of a full sweep your torso will be turned to about 90 degrees relative to the boat, and your paddle shaft will be parallel to the boat, extended a few inches over the water. While you rotate your whole upper body to move the paddle from bow to stern, your sweep will be highly effective if you push your legs in the opposite direction! This gives you major torso rotation and firmly imparts the effect of the paddle movement to the boat. Jim (not T) mentioned that for him, a slow sweep is more effective than a fast one. I'm sure that's because he rotates his body well on the slow sweep, but forces with his arms and shoulders on the fast attempt. Seen it many times, and done it many more! Finally, let's talk about paddle shaft and blade angles. For a full sweep, you want to extent the paddle as far as you can without compromising your balance. To do that, keep the sweeping arm straight (you can lock your elbow during the sweep), and at the same time place your offside hand low and firmly at your midsection. Placing the offside hand here helps the sweep by keeping the paddle shaft low (thus placing the paddle further away from the boat), and it forces the paddler to rotate the body rather than muscle with arms. If you finish a sweep with your offside hand high and away from your body, you know it was an inefficient sweep. As for blade angle: the most effective angle for the sweep would be perpendicular to the water. However, if you angle the top of the blade back just a few degrees, you will get a bit of support without losing significant turning power. This support, in turn, allows you to sweep even more agressively when you need or want to. This is a lot to digest, but it boils down to: Begin by edging (usually to the side opposite the direction of the intended turn -- to the side on which you will sweep the paddle) Place the paddle blade perpendicular to the water, next to your foot. Keep your onside arm straight, even stiff. Keep your offside hand next to your midsection. Move the paddle by rotating the body, not the shoulder girdle. Maintain the edge! Keep rotating until the paddle is close to the stern (you get the most power when the paddle is between your hip and the stern). Finish with your body facing the sweep side and the paddle shaft over the water and parallel to your kayak. As you finish, bring the boat back off the edge for stability. The above describes a full sweep. In real life, you will usually use a stroke that combines elements of the sweep and the forward stroke. For that, the most important and effective component is the edge. Cheers bv *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 09:07 PM 1/7/02 -0500, Bob Volin wrote: >Hi folks. This is gonna be long -- I got carried away ;-> > Great post, Bob. I snipped most of it because I just wanted to add a comment on this one section. >Jim T mentioned your legs and John talked about torso rotation. When done >effectively, they're part of the same action. Most beginners, and many >not-so-new paddlers, keep their upper bodies more or less aligned with their >kayaks when attempting to sweep. This results in an awkward finishing >position and an ineffective sweep. As John says, think about planting your >paddle close to your feet and then using your BODY to sweep it around to the >stern. That means that at the end of a full sweep your torso will be turned >to about 90 degrees relative to the boat, and your paddle shaft will be >parallel to the boat, extended a few inches over the water. There is a really good exercise that I picked up in Chris Duffs class and have used a couple of times in beginner classes I've helped teach. I like it because it starts by introducing a body position on land as a warmup exercise and then uses it later during the class to demonstrate good torso rotation. Before getting into the kayaks get together with a partner about the same size and stand back to back, about 6" a part (more if one has very wide shoulders). Plant your feet comfortably about shoulder width such that they are pointing directly away from your partner. Now one person should grab a paddle and hold it parallel and horizontal in front of the body with "stiff" arms. Both people should then rotate their bodies in the same direction so that the paddle can be passed from one to the other. The should both be facing the same direction with their shoulders nearly touching. Both people then rotate in the other direction so that the paddle is passed back to the first person. Keep going for a minute or so in the same direction then change directions. As an instructor it will be useful to have the paddlers stop for a second or two just as the paddle is being passed from one to the other and comment on the body position. Next have everyone get into their boats and ask everyone to get comfortable and continue to stretch. Have them rotate their torso with the paddle as if they were going to be passing a paddle to someone sitting behind them. When it comes time to demonstrate a forward sweep have the paddlers stop and they think is the end of the stroke, lift their paddle out of the water, and hold it in that position. Note how that position should be the same as the warmup exercise they did on land. This also works with a regular forward stroke for emphasizing torso rotation if you pause at the end of the forward stroke and hold the paddle for a few seconds before taking the next stroke on the other side. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Another fun exercise is more easily done in a whitewater boat on shore; one person sits in the boat while the other stands at the bow. The person in the boat takes the paddle and assumes the "box" position (elbows at 90-ish degrees), then winds up and places the forward blade between the feet of the person standing. Then, using the whole torso and keeping the eye on the blade move the boat so that it spins and the person is left standing at the stern. Then do the reverse and meanwhile pay attention to what muscles are working... Does that make sense? It's hard to imagine from a hotel room in Anaheim (I'm at the Outdoor Retailer show). I think I mentioned I'm on a stay in Los Angeles - I joined a kayak club for a month in Marina Del Rey, and took Rafael down there last week to try out his new boat. It was pretty fun! Andree ________________________ Check it out! http://www.viewit.com/ http://www.onwatersports.com/ Both updated with new links! *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 11:00 AM 1/8/02 -0500, Andree Hurley wrote: >Another fun exercise is more easily done in a whitewater boat on shore; >one person sits in the boat while the other stands at the bow. The person >in the boat takes the paddle and assumes the "box" position (elbows at >90-ish degrees), then winds up and places the forward blade between the >feet of the person standing. Then, using the whole torso and keeping the >eye on the blade move the boat so that it spins and the person is left >standing at the stern. Then do the reverse and meanwhile pay attention to >what muscles are working... > >Does that make sense? Yes. That's very cool. It would take a short whitewater boat and/or a long paddle to do it though. Anyone else got some cool kayak tricks like this? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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