G'Day, As springtime approaches and with the recent posts on "stinky boots" I was wondering about sandals. Someone once told me they were hazardous and could trap a kayaker in a boat if they caught in the foot pedals. Are sandals appropriate foot gear or are they a real hazard? All the best, PeterO (Australia) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Are sandals appropriate foot gear or are they a real hazard? Forget the word "sandal" or any other name one might give a piece of footwear. It's my opinion that "any" piece of footwear that has some ability to loop or snag the footbrace is hazardous. It might snag you while trying to wet-exit, and in effect tie you into a capsized boat. The result would be very, very bad for you, your family, friends and co-workers. Rick - Poquoson, VA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
----- Original Message ----- From: "PeterO" <rebyl_kayak_at_iprimus.com.au>> > As springtime approaches and with the recent posts on "stinky boots" I was > wondering about sandals. Someone once told me they were hazardous and could > trap a kayaker in a boat if they caught in the foot pedals. > > Are sandals appropriate foot gear or are they a real hazard? Oh no, the ole trapped sandal hazard! I agree with Rick of Poquoson, VA. You need to worry about any shoe form that could snag. But there is another side of the issue and that is the nature and shape of your pedals or bracing point and if you are using a sea sock or not. By and large foldables do not have pedals or their pedals are not like those on hardshells. For example, it would be extremely difficult to get a sandal caught on a Feathercraft pedal. It is not a flat piece of plastic but rather a three dimensional wedge. Any strap that would start slipping on to it would only get a quarter of a half inch on to the Feathercraft paddle and would not be like having a spatula slip under the sandal strap or between your foot and the sandal footbed. As for sandals some are worse than others. The standard Teva has just too much distance between straps attaching your foot to the footbed and thus invites a pedal to get well caught between foot and sandal. The Alps type sandal made by Teva these days offers little for the pedal to sneak under. Chacos are also good for the same reason. So in answer to your question, Tevas and standard foot pedals could mean entrapment. But so too can other things, say paddling pants whose velcro cuffs are on loose. Take the advice of a local club here, the Paddling Bares, i.e. go naked! :-) ralph diaz *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Monday, August 26, 2002, at 2:02:27 PM PST, PeterO wrote: > Are sandals appropriate foot gear or are they a real hazard? I keep sandals for wearing on shore, but never while paddling. For paddling, I have three choices...depending on the place and conditions. For heavy Winter paddling, I wear Chota Mukluks (knee high neoprene). For milder conditions, but still good thermal protection, I wear over the ankle neoprene booties. For much milder/warmer conditions, I wear Five-Ten Nemo water shoes. Each gives me the protection and comfort I want in various conditions, and none of them will snag on anything in the boat. I just wouldn't trust sandals in the boat...no matter how comfortable they might be. Melissa -- PGP public keys: mailto:pgp_keys_at_gmx.co.uk?subject=0x46C29887&Body=Please%20send%20keys *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Peter, They are a definite hazard. A friend of mine is an instructor, and he has seen firsthand a paddler get their sandal snagged in the cockpit, and nearly drown. He now does not allow sandals in his classes or tours. I personally live with the stinky surf shoes and boots as a result of his advice.. Wayne -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ Wayne Smith wsmith16_at_snet.net Check out my sea kayaking & homebrewing page: http://pages.cthome.net/wsmith16/home.html *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
From: "PeterO" <rebyl_kayak_at_iprimus.com.au> > Are sandals appropriate foot gear or are they a real hazard? This discussion came up at lunch yesterday, with a bunch of us kayaking the weekend on Lake Opeongo in Algonquin Provincial Park. Most felt they were ok within limits, but I consider them more trouble than they are worth. The discussion started when Amie mentioned a friend who broke an ankle in three places while portaging a trail close to our lunch spot. Birkenstocks were to blame (no heel strap!!!). This was a few years ago and she was rescued by a water taxi that came by. The problem on land is that sandals don't provide any real support and the foot can slide around on the footbed - critical if you're carrying a load. I've never tried a sandal that can cinch tight enough to prevent this and still be comfortable. Even bringing a kayak up above the waterline on a relatively steep or rough beach can be a hazard in the wrong footgear - Amie fell doing this Saturday afternoon when her sandal hooked on a tree root - she still has a sore tailbone! In the kayak, I've felt the snagging problem is more risk than I'm willing to take. I've not enjoyed the few times when sandals have gotten caught on the footpegs even when not exiting, just moving around. My preference is for a full coverage shoe/sandal like those from 5-10 and other companies. They are mesh and neoprene almost everywhere, so there are few or no openings to snag but there is enough mesh to be cool and drain out water. They provide better support so the foot is secure within the shoe and the soles protect you on land. Mine have laces that I cut down to the minimum and close with a cordlock, so there are no loops to catch. Straps with buckles are better (I love the 5-10 version, but the largest size is too small for me - just!). The annoying thing about these is that sand gets in through the mesh, but never seems to get out through the mesh. John, another paddler yesterday who distrusts sandals, prefers the water shoes that swimmers and some sailboarders use. The soles on these are too thin for my liking. The perfect kayaking shoe hasn't been invented yet - there's a fortune to be made!! :-) Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I think it depends on the style, the fit, the boat, and probably a lot of other things. How snag prone are your sandals? Can you easily slip out of them? What kind of foot braces does your boat have? They "may" be OK for some folks in some situations. All that said, better safe than sorry. Personally I would rather carry sandals in the boat. If it is warm I paddle barefooted, if it is cooler then booties, if is really cold then booties with wool socks inside them. What kind of booties depends on how much walking is likely and on what kind of terrain. Pete Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Count me as firmly pro-sandal. One reason is I have odd-size feet: 6-1/2 EEEEE (short and wide) with high arches and insteps, and narrow heels. Feet like mine are hard to fit, especially in sports shoes, which tend to come only in standard sizes. However, I can make most sandals fit simply by by adjusting the straps. On warm water, I always wear Teva Guides when paddling. I have never had a problem with them snagging, and, not being the type to panic under water, I can't imagine a snag situation that I couldn't get out of, even capsized. (For novice sea kayakers who are not comfortable in water, though, it could be another matter.) I wear Neoprene booties only when wearing my dry suit, to protect the dry suit's latex booties. Another reason I wear sandals is because my feet get plenty of air and dry more quickly. I don't like enclosing my feet in non-breathable footwear for long periods of time. I started wearing Tevas when I was doing a lot of Boundary Waters canoe trips. Except for a pair of Goretex socks and some wool-poly socks, the Tevas were my sole footwear. I wore them for portaging, for paddling, and around camp. When the mosquitoes came out, I added the Goretex socks. When it got cold, I added the wool-poly socks. Still do. Before Teva sandals appeared on the market, I wore high-top canvas hiking boots into which I had drilled several drainage holes. But my feet were constanly wet because I always got into and out of my canoe while it was floating. And the high-top boots provided no more ankle support than the Tevas; the closest I came to spraining an ankle while portaging was in those boots. Speaking of ankle support, I think it is overrated. My podiatrist told me that the only scientific study of ankle support was done with infants, not with adults, and that most adult ankles don't need it. I, for one, have carried over a hundred pounds of gear over many long, rocky, muddy, rooty portages in my Tevas without injury (always being careful to watch my footing, of course). YMMV. As others have pointed out, some combinations of sandals and footpegs may be more hazardous than others. Chuck Holst *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
From: "Chuck Holst" <cholst_at_bitstream.net> > Speaking of ankle support, I think it is overrated. I think a lot of people say ankle support when they really mean heel support. Many sandals suffer in this regard - they don't keep the heel in place laterally. If the heel slides while you're carrying load, it can knock you off balance. The mesh-shoe type paddling shoes usually have heel cups and counters to provide reasonable heel support. Dive boots do not, but I added footbeds to my Swellies (MEC's Chota clones) to at least provide a firmer bed, arch support and a heel cup - the inability to tighten them makes them less than ideal, however. The lace-up Chotas are probably better. I agree that ankle support is overrated, especially when you look at what is required to provide real ankle support. People who say they have weak ankles (a common complaint in cross- country skiing) are actually suffering from bad balance - if you can walk, you have adequate ankle strength. Downhill ski boots, winter climbing boots and similar gear provide ankle support - few hiking boots really do. If you look at the range of motion that can cause damage and compare it to the range of motion permitted by most hiking boots, you'll realize how overrated the boots are. The high topped boots do protect the ankle in other ways, though. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
[Chuck] >Count me as firmly pro-sandal. Barefeet or sandals here > Speaking of ankle support, I think it is overrated. Are you sure? I mean the Napalese only carry 200-300 lb loads because they wear flipflops or bare feet. Imagine what they could do with ankle support, carry 1/2 ton all day...... OK, I agree (no ankle support needed) and having talked to another cyclist I wonder if cycling also helps - flexibility of the ankle and strength. Personally if I get in a situation where the ground angle is too extreme I end up on one knee for that step (rough terrain). > I, for one, have >carried over a hundred pounds of gear over many long, rocky, muddy, rooty >portages in my Tevas without injury (always being careful to watch my >footing, of course). Imagine, you could carry 500 pounds with ankle support??????!!!!! >YMMV. As others have pointed out, some combinations of sandals and >footpegs may be more hazardous than others. If people insist on little "sticky-out" things to put their feet on then what do they expect. Either a full bulkhead as a foot rest or full-foot pedals so your feet don't go to the wrong side of the pedal. Much more important than the footwear. Alex . . *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
wrote: [Chuck] >Count me as firmly pro-sandal.Barefeet or sandals here.SNIP > I, for one, have >carried over a hundred pounds of gear over many long, rocky, muddy, rooty >portages in my Tevas without injury (always being careful to watch my >footing, of course). If people insist on little "sticky-out" things to put their feet on then what do they expect. Either a full bulkhead as a foot rest or full-foot pedals so your feet don't go to the wrong side of the pedal. Much more important than the footwear. Alex Response: Chuck- You're nuts! Don't do those loads, it will catch up with you. One mistake with a 100 pound or even 60 pounds can leave you a. in agony, and b. unable to get out without a lot of help. I've done a, and was close to be. If you blow out a knee, I'll tell you, regardless of how good your surgeon is, it will NEVER, EVER be the same again. Better to make multiple trips no matter how distasteful. Alex- Great for guys like me without rudders, but what do you do with a rudder? Kevin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>If people insist on little "sticky-out" things to put their feet on then >what do they expect. Either a full bulkhead as a foot rest or full-foot >pedals so your feet don't go to the wrong side of the pedal. Much more >important than the footwear. > >Alex > >Alex- Great for guys like me without rudders, but what do you do with a >rudder? > >Kevin Just what I said, full-foot sized pedals. The full-foot pedals are hinged if you have a rudder otherwise it isn't split in the middle and is as I fitted to the front cockpit of my double. Simple. Alex *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
-----Original Message----- From: knelson_at_captivasoftware.com [SMTP:knelson_at_captivasoftware.com] Response: Chuck- You're nuts! Don't do those loads, it will catch up with you. One mistake with a 100 pound or even 60 pounds can leave you a. in agony, and b. unable to get out without a lot of help. I've done a, and was close to be. If you blow out a knee, I'll tell you, regardless of how good your surgeon is, it will NEVER, EVER be the same again. Better to make multiple trips no matter how distasteful. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ FWIW, since my back operation several years ago, which removed the loose fragments of a ruptured disc, I try not to lift or carry anything heavier than 50 pounds, and preferably no more than 30 pounds. My surgeon, though, said some of his patients who were construction workers went back to carrying 100-pound loads after rehabilitation. Also, I had worked out a system in which about half the weight of the canoe and contents was transferred to my hips by my internal frame pack. Though that didn't relieve the stress on my knees any, it did take some of the weight off my back. Chuck Holst *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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