I am considering buying a used Valley Pintail with an ocean cockpit. I have never used an ocean cockpit. I am 5' 11" 160 lbs. About 180cm and about 72 kgs. Opinions as to how comfortable that type of cockpit is and how easy it is to get into/out of? How long can you keep a glass kayak if you maintain it? What do you look at when inspecting a used glass boat? I would be grateful to any Pintail owners back channeling me with their opinions of their kayak. Jim et al *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
From: <jfarrelly5_at_comcast.net> > I am considering buying a used Valley Pintail with an ocean cockpit. > I have never used an ocean cockpit. I am 5' 11" 160 lbs. About 180cm and about 72 kgs. > Opinions as to how comfortable that type of cockpit is and how easy it is to get into/out of? I have an ocean cockpit on my Ellesmere. I would not recommend it for the average paddler. It is well suited to those that feel they need it (ie. don't trust a keyhole with a skirt that has an implosion bar). I got one because I wanted to be comfortable with using one when I make my SOF kayak (someday...) or if I find myself in a situation of renting or borrowing one in an exotic place and a keyhole isn't available. It is a challenge getting used to getting in or out. I have got to the point where I can balance while sitting on the back deck and keeping my paddle (Greenland style) behind the cockpit with one end submerged in the water. By submerging one end of the paddle, I can dampen the rolling to the point that I can recover from minor imbalances and still get in. I haven't tried this in a surf launch yet! (surf? - in the Great Lakes?) As far as comfort goes, I find it more comfortable than other kayaks - but that is partly due to the seat. The lack of thigh hooks means I can move my legs around more and still brace under the deck. Overall I like it, but getting in/out is a pain at times. I find it helps make people think you're a Serious Paddler :-) > How long can you keep a glass kayak if you maintain it? Forever? I see sailboats from the fifties (some of the first fiberglass hulls) still in service. I don't see any reasonable end to their life if maintained and not abused. In principle, the glass fibers can break and the laminate soften with time, but that's more common in skis than boats. You'd have to really pound and flex a hull to sustain enough damage over time to weaken a kayak, I should think. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 12:55 PM 8/10/2002 -0400, Michael Daly wrote: >From: <jfarrelly5_at_comcast.net> > >> I am considering buying a used Valley Pintail with an ocean cockpit. >> I have never used an ocean cockpit. I am 5' 11" 160 lbs. About 180cm and about 72 kgs. >> Opinions as to how comfortable that type of cockpit is and how easy it is to get into/out of? > >I have an ocean cockpit on my Ellesmere. I would not recommend it for the average paddler. >It is well suited to those that feel they need it (ie. don't trust a keyhole with a skirt >that has an implosion bar). I got one because I wanted to be comfortable with using one >when I make my SOF kayak (someday...) or if I find myself in a situation of renting or >borrowing one in an exotic place and a keyhole isn't available. > >It is a challenge getting used to getting in or out. I have got to the point where I >can balance while sitting on the back deck and keeping my paddle (Greenland style) >behind the cockpit with one end submerged in the water. By submerging one end of the >paddle, I can dampen the rolling to the point that I can recover from minor imbalances >and still get in. I haven't tried this in a surf launch yet! (surf? - in the Great >Lakes?) I've got a fiberglass VCP Skerray which has the same ocean cockpit as the pintail. I didn't feel that it was much of a challenge learning to enter/exit the cockpit. You just have to get used to putting your feet in first, then sit down. Exiting the boat, at least during a wet exit, is pretty much the same as in a keyhole cockpit. If you're somersaulting out you're feet are coming out last anyway. > >As far as comfort goes, I find it more comfortable than other kayaks - but that is partly >due to the seat. The lack of thigh hooks means I can move my legs around more and still >brace under the deck. Overall I like it, but getting in/out is a pain at times. That's my impression as well. If you consider how much time you spend getting in and out compared to how much time you are sitting in the boat paddling, how the cockpit fits while paddling should take greater priortity. I also like the fact that the foredeck extends over my legs. As long as the foredeck is sufficiently high enough the amount of leg room is the same as in a keyholed cockpit. > >I find it helps make people think you're a Serious Paddler :-) > >> How long can you keep a glass kayak if you maintain it? > >Forever? I see sailboats from the fifties (some of the first fiberglass hulls) >still in service. I don't see any reasonable end to their life if maintained and >not abused. In principle, the glass fibers can break and the laminate soften with >time, but that's more common in skis than boats. You'd have to really pound and >flex a hull to sustain enough damage over time to weaken a kayak, I should think. Even if a fiberglass hull does get damaged, it's much easier to repair than a plastic boat. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Jim Farrelly <jfarrelly5_at_comcast.net> wrote: >I am considering buying a used Valley Pintail with an ocean >cockpit. I have never used an ocean cockpit. "Michael Daly" <michaeldaly_at_rogers.com> wrote: >I have an ocean cockpit on my Ellesmere. I would not recommend it for > the average paddler. >I find it helps make people think you're a Serious Paddler :-) I would have to agree with Michael. I traded one of my S&G boats to a lady in my paddling club for the summer. In return, I got the use of an older VCP Selkie. Her husband disliked the ocean cockpit, and I attributed it mostly to age/stiffness. The Selkie isn't VCP's best design, but its most annoying asset is the ocean cockpit. It's a 24" wide boat, and I prefer to use my Guillemot. So...for my loaner, I've been taking people out in the Selkie. Not a good idea. It takes a lot longer, and adds a lot of anxiety to a wet exit (in average paddlers). If you are a somewhat skilled paddler, and are interested in more traditional paddling techniques, go for it. If you like to trade boats with your paddling partners, or ever want to use this as your second or loaner boat (not as likely with a Pintail--you'll likely stay with it as one of your primary boats!), then don't buy it. Glass is great stuff--VCP has good quality control--boats are somewhat heavy, but well made. Look at a good 20-30 year life for a glass boat that isn't abused. shawn HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
(Moderator's Note: Content unaltered. Excessive quoting (i.e. headers/footers/sig lines/comments from previous posts, etc.) have been removed. Please edit quoted material and list footers when replying to posts.) At 09:23 AM 8/12/02 -0700, Shawn Baker wrote: >Jim Farrelly <jfarrelly5_at_comcast.net> wrote: > >I am considering buying a used Valley Pintail with an ocean > >cockpit. I have never used an ocean cockpit. > >"Michael Daly" <michaeldaly_at_rogers.com> wrote: > >I have an ocean cockpit on my Ellesmere. I would not recommend it for > > the average paddler. > >I find it helps make people think you're a Serious Paddler :-) > >I would have to agree with Michael. I traded one of my S&G boats to a >lady in my paddling club for the summer. In return, I got the use of >an older VCP Selkie. Her husband disliked the ocean cockpit, and I >attributed it mostly to age/stiffness. > >The Selkie isn't VCP's best design, but its most annoying asset is the >ocean cockpit. It's a 24" wide boat, and I prefer to use my Guillemot. When I bought my Skerray there was also a Selkie in the same shop. I didn't know anything about either of them. I'm glad I got the Skerray. >So...for my loaner, I've been taking people out in the Selkie. Not a >good idea. It takes a lot longer, Do you mean it takes a lot longer to wet-exit or that it takes a lot longer in general because the Selkie is slow? > and adds a lot of anxiety to a wet >exit (in average paddlers). Think so? From my experience, most of those that have never done a wet exit before experience anxiety the first couple of times they do it. I've only used my Skerray once this season. It's at my friends rental shop and he sends complete novices out in it all the time (without a sprayskirt). I've never noticed that it's harder to exit due to the ocean cockpit. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> When I bought my Skerray there was also a Selkie in the same shop. I > didn't know anything about either of them. I'm glad I got the > Skerray. You don't see many Selkies out there--I'm guessing they didn't sell many. > Do you mean it takes a lot longer to wet-exit... To wet exit. > Think so? From my experience, most of those that have never done a > wet exit before experience anxiety the first couple of times they do > it. I assume you mean "never done a wet exit before experience anxiety (anyway)" You're right. They have anxiety and slight panic anyway. I teach people a controlled wet exit, and guide them through the first ones, but the first unintentional wet exit is often still a bit panicked. Ocean cockpits are good, and they certainly have their place. They're just not for me. I'm also 6'-6", so my perspective is likely skewed from that of a much shorter (like average height) paddler. Shawn HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
From: "Shawn Baker" <shawnkayak_at_yahoo.com> > To wet exit. > > > Think so? From my experience, most of those that have never done a > > wet exit before experience anxiety the first couple of times they do > > it. > > I assume you mean "never done a wet exit before experience anxiety > (anyway)" > > You're right. They have anxiety and slight panic anyway. I find that there is a heightened level of anxiety about wet exiting an ocean cockpit. I've let a number of folks try my kayak and they often express concern about the ease of exiting the smaller cockpit. While the amount of useful opening is nominally the same (assuming you do a "remove your pants" style exit rather than a reverse cowboy exit), the emotional response to the smaller coaming size tends toward being more nervous. I have to assure them that they'll slip out just as easily as in their own keyhole cockpit. These paddlers usually have some experience and have done wet exits before. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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