It's a pity that Robert Livingstone & Pam Martin thought it necessary to preface their otherwise useful post with an unsound attack on the very notion of ballast. I use ballast in my Gulfstream, and so does Derrick Hutchison, its designer (he told me so, and he also recommends its use in his books, so I believe him). The reason is simple - a designer can be as precise as he or she likes in dimensioning a boat, but a large variable remains - it's called the paddler. An Gulfstream is a high-volume boat, and when empty of all but a 165 lb paddler (me) it will benefit considerably from ballast. When full of gear, it won't - it's as simple as that. I have also heard the argument that a paddler should increase his skill level, not "rely" on ballast. This is like saying that if your six foot ten brother-in-law gives you his very long paddle, you should learn to use it, not shorten it. It surely makes more sense to both maximize your skills and optimize your equipment. Having got that of my chest, my ballast consists of a flat-sided plastic gallon container (used to hold anti-freeze) positioned on the keelson in the day-hatch and held firmly in place with two straps rigged with "D" rings and Velcro. A few failed experiments showed that it's worth paying to have a shoe-repair store stitch the rings and Velcro in place on the straps. The straps are glued or epoxied in place and the container can be put in or removed in seconds. I filled it with fine sand, which is heavier than water, just as cheap, and without the cost and problems of lead shot. I estimate its weight at around 15 to 20 lbs, which doesn't add much to a day's paddle but, because of the leverage due to its on-the-keel placement, will provide a useful ballasting effect. Keith Rodgers *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
This brings a related queston to mind: how best to secure things like ballast? One poster wrote of epoxying wood strips down and screwing straps into them. I've thought of epoxying down the D-ring patches sold to glue to rubber rafts. Not sure if this would work or not. Any other ideas of how to attach D-rings to the inside of the hull in such as way that they can still be laid flat against the surface? Thanks for your suggestions. -Kevin Zembower -- kevinz_at_charm.net Kevin Zembower On Mon, 19 Aug 2002, Keith Rodgers wrote: > Having got that of my chest, my ballast consists of a flat-sided plastic > gallon container (used to hold anti-freeze) positioned on the keelson in the > day-hatch and held firmly in place with two straps rigged with "D" rings and > Velcro. A few failed experiments showed that it's worth paying to have a > shoe-repair store stitch the rings and Velcro in place on the straps. The > straps are glued or epoxied in place and the container can be put in or > removed in seconds. I filled it with fine sand, which is heavier than water, *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
From: "Kevin Zembower" <kevinz_at_fellspt.charm.net> > Not sure if this would work or not. Any other ideas > of how to attach D-rings to the inside of the hull in such as way that > they can still be laid flat against the surface? 3M 5200! I used it on home made D-rings (plastic D-rings held with webbing stitched to Cordura squares) and it's still there several years later. However, I glued it to the ABS bulkhead and not to the fiberglass hull. I don't see why it would not work with commercial D-rings on a glass hull. Don't get the rigid plastic plate; use the flexible Hypalon or vinyl backing. http://www.riverraiders.com/accessories/whitewater/whitewater.html Scroll down and there's an illustration of these D-rings. The two in the upper left are narrow rectangular strips - these are rigid plastic. The others are flexible. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
G'Day, I'm 140lb and paddle a boat reputed to be like an Icefloe and supposed to be difficult in a following sea. Have fibreglassed stainless steel rings into the rear compartment and also into the cockpit in front of my seat. At first I used a comprehensive bag of safety equipment and water as ballast and tied it down to the rings with bungee. It was very effective. Over time I got used to much smaller loads or doing without. The rings in the cockpit are for tying down a helmet which otherwise doesn't fit into the day hatch. Can anyone tell me whether ballast in the rear improves the performance in a following sea - I'm wondering if the fact I don't have a problem with a boat that is supposed to have such a problem is because I'm putting some gear in the rear hatch. All the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 03:19 PM 8/19/2002 -0400, Keith Rodgers wrote: >Having got that of my chest, my ballast consists of a flat-sided plastic >gallon container (used to hold anti-freeze) positioned on the keelson in the >day-hatch and held firmly in place with two straps rigged with "D" rings and >Velcro. because of the leverage due to its on-the-keel placement, will >provide >a useful ballasting effect. >Keith Rodgers Thanks all for the very informative and helpful posts (and offline messages) from which I extract the following not entirely orthogonal principles: First, the waterline (how low the boat rides in the water) is mostly a function of weight. Adding 25 lbs of ballast won't make much difference here, but loading the boat with 200+ pounds of camping gear will have a big effect. Second, front-to-back trim is a function of the placement of weight (and the paddler's fore/aft seat position) relative to the CG as much as it is the amount of weight. Depending on its placement, 25 pounds of ballast can have a big effect on trim, but the general sense of the posts is that 25lbs of ballast anywhere around the seat (day hatch to immediately in front of seat) should be OK. Time to test this hypothesis in my boat with a level! Third, side-to-side trim will vary with the placement of weight relative to the keelson. Off center will make the boat unstable. Placed low and on-center will improve stability by influencing the righting moment, e.g. by tending to pull the boat back over the keel line. This is true for 25 lbs of weight or 100 pounds of weight, depending more on centering the weight on the midline as low as possible, than on the absolute amount of weight, although there must be some interaction with how low the boat sits in the water here as well. So, taking all this into consideration, I'm going to try 25-30 pounds of lead shot in a dry bag just behind the seat. I'm going to tie it down with strips of velco attached to the dry bag and the peri-keel line area and also by velcro straps laid across the top. Because the dry bag will be partly wedged under the seat, this should be secure enough, but I'll probably go the D-ring route, which will be simpler to use, once I get it the parameters fixed. Note hardened lead shot (steel coated, so it won't oxidize; essential in the SE) is approximately 20 dollars/25 pounds here in North Carolina. I found mine at a gun shop--good laugh from the good old boys when they found out why I wanted it. Seemed the easiest and most compact route to go, especially given the low, keel line centered imperative in point three above. Now for the hard part, trying to escape work during the day so I can test all this stuff out. Pragmatically, John ********************************************************* John S. March, MD, MPH Professor of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences Duke Child and Family Study Center 718 Rutherford Street Durham, NC 27705 919/416-2404 (P); 919/416-2420 (F) Email: jsmarch_at_acpub.duke.edu Website: http://www2.mc.duke.edu/pcaad "I maintain there is much more wonder in science than in pseudoscience. And in addition, to whatever measure this term has any meaning, science has the additional virtue, and it is not an inconsiderable one, of being true." --Carl Sagan ********************************************************* *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
(Moderator's Note: Content unaltered. Excessive quoting (i.e. headers/footers/sig lines/comments from previous posts, etc.) have been removed. Please edit quoted material and list footers when replying to posts.) This brings a related queston to mind: how best to secure things like ballast? One poster wrote of epoxying wood strips down and screwing straps into them. I've thought of epoxying down the D-ring patches sold to glue to rubber rafts. Not sure if this would work or not. Any other ideas of how to attach D-rings to the inside of the hull in such as way that they can still be laid flat against the surface? Thanks for your suggestions. -Kevin Zembower -- kevinz_at_charm.net Kevin Zembower On Mon, 19 Aug 2002, Keith Rodgers wrote: > Having got that of my chest, my ballast consists of a flat-sided plastic > gallon container (used to hold anti-freeze) positioned on the keelson in the > day-hatch and held firmly in place with two straps rigged with "D" rings and > Velcro. A few failed experiments showed that it's worth paying to have a > shoe-repair store stitch the rings and Velcro in place on the straps. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
writes: "This brings a related queston to mind: how best to secure things like ballast? One poster wrote of epoxying wood strips down and screwing straps into them. I've thought of epoxying down the D-ring patches sold to glue to rubber rafts. Not sure if this would work or not. Any other ideas of how to attach D-rings to the inside of the hull in such as way that they can still be laid flat against the surface? Thanks for your suggestions." I used this system and it works very well. Were I to do it all over I'd go with the bags to keeg the CG lower and possibly the d ring patches. Thought the 2 wood strips are ultra secure they do take up a lot of room and it's impractical to place one in front of the seat. I kind of like the water idea the best, and wish I'd thoght of it. Unfortunately I'm selling th Icefloe and my other but don't need it. Perhaps the SOH I'm building in October might and I'll definitely look at water. You know when the Inuit carried rocks for ballast, they would never dump them in the sea. They would always carry them back to land and dump them there. Kevin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 8/19/2002 4:23:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, kevinz_at_fellspt.charm.net writes: > ... This brings a related queston to mind: how best to secure things like > ballast? I suspect that using epoxy (where appropriate to the hull material) would yield good results with webbing loops through the D-rings. If need be a glas patch could be added for further strength. Of course folding boats have no problems with internal attachment points due to their frames ... :-) Best regards, Ralph Ralph_at_PouchBoats.com www.PouchBoats.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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