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From: James <jimtibensky_at_fastmail.fm>
subject: [Paddlewise] Sponsons Permission/Assistance
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 14:33:44 UT
Kait O'Hara - you have opened up a can of worms and you're hearing a lot
of good stuff from fellow Paddlewisers.  I will only speak to your saying
"Mark Zen, a experienced paddler who is disabled, stated that he thought
he could have really used sponsons; furthermore for the disabled they
would be great."

As with so many of your other comments, this one has no context.  I,
also, can describe myself as an experienced paddler who is disabled.  But
what in the world do you know from that?  My opinion of my self as
experienced counts for nothing without some details.  And my disability
was, in many ways, a huge advantage for me in racing because the lack of
muscle in one leg makes me really light and, therefore, pretty fast.  I
would be nuts to speak for all disabled paddlers and anyone would be nuts
to listen to me if I claimed to do so.  The fact that most people think
I'm nuts generally will be conveniently ignored here.

Anyway, you're getting enough flak from paddlers who know more than I do
about sponsons and speak to the idea better, so that's all I'll say.

Jim Tibensky
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From: Jackie Fenton <jackie_at_muddypuppies.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Sponsons Permission/Assistance
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 14:40:54 -0800 (PST)
> From: "Kaitlin O'Hara" <kohara_at_potomacmgmt.com>

> Hello,
> 
> My name is Kait O'Hara.  I believe Kirk Olsen may have written you about my
> project.  The U.S. Coast Guard has hired me to do a search for information
> on sponson use in the paddling community.

Why?  I have yet to see you state the objective. 

<big snip>

> Other Recommended Devices
> 
> Langmaid suggested that there is no substitute for avoidance of dangerous
> situations and solid paddling skills because training is far better than
> being outside of your boat.  Bob Myers suggested that using California
> Ballast Rocks T with inflated float bags to keep rocks in place was a far
> superior method of achieving temporary stability.

This statement demonstrates that you are not only not a sea  kayaker, but
you are conducting a "study" via a very unprofessional manner... 
conducting a study from a casual conversation on a listserve of individuals 
whom you have no idea as to their credentials about a subject on which you 
are quite ignorant.  

> Bob Myers commented that he tried sponsons on his tippy boat, and they
> "really slowed the boat down, at least subjectively."  He felt as though he
> was "plowing through the water."  Diaz, on the other hand, found that in
> actual paddling conditions, they cause a minimal amount of drag.  He found
> that if they were properly setup, they would only touch the water if the
> boat was being tossed around, under which conditions they would be serving
> their purpose.  A friend of Diaz's used them with his Aerius 2000 (very
> tippy) and he frequently used them for comfort.  According to Diaz, it

You have taken Ralph Diaz' comments out of context.  Bob Myers is 
referring to the unsponsoned Khatsalano, a point he made in his 
original message.  Ralph was not responding to Bob Myers' comment. 
Are you aware of the differences in these two boats?

As the originator of PaddleWise (a list repeatedly and publicly 
referred to by Ingram as "that murderous cult"), I object to 
a _casual_ conversation on PaddleWise between fellow paddlers 
regarding sponsons being used in this manner.  I have difficulty 
seeing any good in this type of "research" and the only quote you 
may make on my behalf (not that the US Coast Guard should consider 
any decisions about sponsons based on anything I have to say about 
them) is this:

"I think the illusion of safety created by the US Coast Guard 
mandating the carrying of sponsons will get paddlers killed, 
especially novice paddlers.  I don't think the US Coastguard will 
want to enforce that kind of illusion."  

Please feel free to use my title.


Jackie Fenton/Myers
Registered Five Star Expert Level 
US Bogon Society of Advanced Sea Kayakers

p.s. I am unable to view your word and excel documents at your website.
I assume it contains only what you presented to PaddleWise readers
in your post.


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From: James <jimtibensky_at_fastmail.fm>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Sponsons Permission/Assistance
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 14:20:26 UT
Rich Kulawiec - you gave a good list of what makes a whitewater paddler
safe, and your comments about sponsons fit my own view.  But, especially
in whitewater paddling, I believe the most important safety feature is
having a companion.  Sea kayaking can be done safely alone in good
conditions, imho, but whitewater is never safe alone.  Even slalom races,
where the boater is on the course alone (ideally!), have safety crews and
boats.

Jim Tibensky
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From: Rich Kulawiec <rsk_at_rockandwater.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Sponsons Permission/Assistance
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 12:39:27 -0500
On Thu, Oct 31, 2002 at 02:20:26PM +0000, James wrote:
> Rich Kulawiec - you gave a good list of what makes a whitewater paddler
> safe, and your comments about sponsons fit my own view.  But, especially
> in whitewater paddling, I believe the most important safety feature is
> having a companion.  [...]

You're absolutely right, and I was wrong to omit this.  Having a
companion, or multiple companions, can make a team that is safer than
any of its individuals acting alone.  Everything from scouting
rapids to choosing the best lines to trivial/complex rescues gets
easier when a team of paddlers works together.  (I know this first-hand:
it is only thanks to the knowledge, skill, and self-sacrificing courage of
my companions that I came back from a trip on the Gauley a few years back.)
We lead, we follow, we teach, we learn, we cooperate, we support.

And we are stronger together than we are alone.

---Rsk
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From: Melissa Reese <melissa_at_bonnyweeboaty.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Sponsons Permission/Assistance
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 10:38:23 -0800
On Thursday, October 31, 2002, at 6:33:44 AM PST, James wrote:

> The fact that most people think I'm nuts generally will be
> conveniently ignored here.

Okay Jim...I'll try not to focus too much on this fact.  ;-)

-- 
Melissa

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From: Jackie Fenton <jackie_at_muddypuppies.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Sponsons Permission/Assistance
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 22:23:41 -0800 (PST)
In my reply to Kaitlin O'Hara's message to PaddleWise, I said:

> Please feel free to use my title.
> 
> 
> Jackie Fenton/Myers
> Registered Five Star Expert Level 
> US Bogon Society of Advanced Sea Kayakers


I've had a few questions about the sea kayaker society I mention 
here to Kaitlin O'Hara.  Someone also wanted to know what the 
"acronym" stood for.  For the curious, go to http://dictionary.com
and search the word - bogon - and check out entry number 4. :-)

Cheers,

Jackie (thinking of making Tim an honorary member)
US Bogon Society of Advanced Sea Kayakers


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