Chuck is snipped: A fellow in our kayak club made a stich-and-glue kayak in which the hatch covers are held down by internal bungees. I tested a prototype kayak with this rig and during a cowboy rescue, my skirt caught the hatch and it is now in Davey Jones' Locker. I recommended they use a different system, despite the good looks. Brian Blankinship *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>> Anyone out there have a good solution for hatch fastener systems? I have a Pygmy Coho into which I am now (reluctantly after one season of use) going to put bulkheads/hatches. I'm a little leary of Pygmy's system of cams and straps. Any ideas out there? Thanks! Mike O'B >> A fellow in our kayak club made a stich-and-glue kayak in which the hatch covers are held down by internal bungees. Two wooden hooks are built into opposite sides of the hatch cover or the hatch and a mating bungee loop is mounted opposite each hook. When fastening the hatch cover, first place one bungee loop over its matching hook, then do the same with the other while stretching it. Let go, and the cover will snap into place. To remove the cover, pull it up against the tension of the bungee cord, reach inside, and unhook the bungee. I'm sure this method applies more downward pressure on the hatch seal than any strap system. The builder says he has never had a leak when rolling. Also, using this system gives a cleaner (uncluttered) deck. I thought it was very ingenious the first time I saw it. I still do. Chuck Holst *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
From: "Chuck Holst" <cholst_at_bitstream.net> > A fellow in our kayak club made a stich-and-glue kayak in which the hatch > covers are held down by internal bungees. [...] John Winters has a similar system in his personal QCC. However, he uses light line rather than bungie and the end of the line is attached to a cleat in the cockpit. The cover is permanently attached to the line. He puts stuff into the compartment and then cinches in the line from the seat. Both front and rear hatch covers have this system. That means the line passes thru a hole in the bulkhead, but he says the leakage in not significant. > I'm sure this method applies more downward pressure on the hatch seal than > any strap system. The builder says he has never had a leak when rolling. > Also, using this system gives a cleaner (uncluttered) deck. I thought it > was very ingenious the first time I saw it. I still do. The lack of straps etc on the deck does give a clean look. In John's case, however, without the bungie, the tension is either on or off. If there's something inside the compartment that the line goes around when tightened and that item shifts when paddling, the line could loosen. He'd have to be careful when packing. I can imaging a combination of line and bungie could solve this and I sort of like the line release in the cockpit. The holes in the bulkhead are not a problem, IMHO, since they allow the air pressure to equalize with temperature change and if the hole is tight, little water will go thru. That could give an even tighter seal than the bungie alone, since you wouldn't have to leave it slack enough to pry up the hatch cover to open. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 11:06 AM 12/28/02 -0600, Chuck Holst wrote: > >> >Anyone out there have a good solution for hatch fastener systems? I have a >Pygmy Coho into which I am now (reluctantly after one season of use) going >to put bulkheads/hatches. I'm a little leary of Pygmy's system of cams and >straps. Any ideas out there? Thanks! Mike O'B > >> > >A fellow in our kayak club made a stich-and-glue kayak in which the hatch >covers are held down by internal bungees. Two wooden hooks are built into >opposite sides of the hatch cover or the hatch and a mating bungee loop is >mounted opposite each hook. When fastening the hatch cover, first place one >bungee loop over its matching hook, then do the same with the other while >stretching it. Let go, and the cover will snap into place. To remove the >cover, pull it up against the tension of the bungee cord, reach inside, and >unhook the bungee. The under deck bungee system is real nice and I used the technique for my Outer Island. However, a *flush hatch* using under deck bungees would be problematic. For a flush hatch a lip needs to be built under the deck for the hatch to rest and building that lip will be difficult once the deck and hull are attached. It might be possible to build the lip in two pieces and clamp it to the underside of the deck, then fill in the gaps. For my Northbay I made semi-flush hatch covers. I built lips under the deck for the hatch covers to rest but once I added foam weather stripping for a seal, the cover actually rested a bit above the rest of the deck. I ended up cutting out some 1/2" wide rings out of plywood and gluing them onto the deck around the edge of the hatch opening. Then I used two bungies crossed over the hatch cover (like Seaward does with their hatches) to hold the hatch cover down. It seems to work well and looks pretty nice. You can sort of see what it looks like here: http://caddis.mannlib.cornell.edu/paddle/northbay/mynb1.jpg *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I saw an article in the recent Sea Kayaker Magazine about replacing some of the bungee cord deck fittings on your boat with more durable straps. I think my VCP Avocet is a prime candidate for this type of upgrade. The smart Brits who made the boat have underdeck protection where the screws go in. Here's my question: What types of strapping materials, and when I install them, do I need to make tiny grommets to keep the material from tearing? They'd have to be really small grommets. Or, can I just screw the screws right through the straps? If I do that, wouldn't the material eventually wear away at the attachment points? Thanks, Marsanne *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 11:53 AM 12/31/02 -0600, firefly wrote: >I saw an article in the recent Sea Kayaker Magazine about replacing some of >the bungee cord deck fittings on your boat with more durable straps. I think >my VCP Avocet is a prime candidate for this type of upgrade. The smart Brits >who made the boat have underdeck protection where the screws go in. Here's >my question: What types of strapping materials, and when I install them, do >I need to make tiny grommets to keep the material from tearing? They'd have >to be really small grommets. Or, can I just screw the screws right through >the straps? If I do that, wouldn't the material eventually wear away at the >attachment points? Thanks, Marsanne You can buy a grommet maker to do this. It's a little kit that consists of a small metal tube with one end sharpened for making the holes, a tool consisting of two parts for installing the grommet, and a bunch of brass grommets. Should cost about $12. However, I just put the screws through the straps. I figure even if it eventually does wear through the webbing is real cheap and replacing it ever couple of years isn't a big deal. The trick, however is to make a hole in the webbing using a soldering iron. That makes a nice round hole with the edges melted and keeps it from fraying. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 1/2/2003 8:22:44 AM Eastern Standard Time, jaf30_at_cornell.edu writes: > ... However, I just put the screws through the straps. I figure even if it > eventually does wear through the webbing is real cheap and replacing it > ever couple of years isn't a big deal. The trick, however is to make a > hole in the webbing using a soldering iron. That makes a nice round hole > with the edges melted and keeps it from fraying. ... I have very negative experience with grommets in webbing straps under any significant loads: The holes for the grommets reduce the effective (loadbearing) width of the webbing straps, causing the grommets to tear out. I did experiment with melted holes, but found that this only improves the situation partially. I have had best success not using grommets at all, instead opening the weave of the strap with an awl (or marlinespike) without damaging it. I routinely (pop and straight) rivet webbing straps and also screw them to surfaces (mostly wood), underlaying the (brass!) screws with (brass!) washers (from the same section of the hardware store) -- round head screws work with regular flat washers, I prefer countersunk screw heads and the specialized washers that go with them for this type of application. Stainless screws will work, of course, if you can find them in the appropriate size and shape at a decent price. Best regards, Ralph Ralph C. Hoehn Ralph_at_Atlatl-Kayaks.com / Ralph_at_PouchBoats.com www.Atlatl-Kayaks.com / www.PouchBoats.com phone: +1-203-324-0901 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 12:22 PM 12/31/02 -0500, Blankibr_at_aol.com wrote: >Chuck is snipped: A fellow in our kayak club made a stich-and-glue kayak in >which the hatch covers are held down by internal bungees. > >I tested a prototype kayak with this rig and during a cowboy rescue, my skirt >caught the hatch and it is now in Davey Jones' Locker. I recommended they >use a different system, despite the good looks. Even with internal bungies you're still going to want to attach a separate line under the deck to tether the hatch cover. I'd be more concerned about the hatch even opening during a reentry than losing the hatch cover. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>> Chuck is snipped: A fellow in our kayak club made a stich-and-glue kayak in which the hatch covers are held down by internal bungees. I tested a prototype kayak with this rig and during a cowboy rescue, my skirt caught the hatch and it is now in Davey Jones' Locker. I recommended they use a different system, despite the good looks. Brian Blankinship >> I wouldn't expect this to happen if the hatch cover were flush with the deck or a fairly strong pair of bungees were used. As I recall, the one I looked at required a fairly strong pull to open the hatch far enough to to unhook the bungee. Chuck Holst *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 1/2/2003 1:16:16 PM Central Standard Time, cholst_at_bitstream.net writes: > A fellow in our kayak club made a stich-and-glue kayak > in > which the hatch covers are held down by internal bungees. > > I tested a prototype kayak with this rig and during a cowboy rescue, my > skirt > caught the hatch and it is now in Davey Jones' Locker. I recommended they > use a different system, despite the good looks. > > Brian Blankinship > >> > > I wouldn't expect this to happen if the hatch cover were flush with the > deck or a fairly strong pair of bungees were used. As I recall, the one I > looked at required a fairly strong pull to open the hatch far enough to to > unhook the bungee. > I was present at a Deep Water Rescue practice and the act of a rescuee leveraging off the hatch cover made it open up by slipping one or two of the tension pegs and the hatch shipped a few gallons of water. The day before my wife saw the internal bungie system in use. A rescuee's hand pushed in the lid and the kayak recieved a few US gallons, enough to cause the kayak to pirouette. For these reasons I prefer the VCP or Kayak sport hatches. There may be ways to make a pretty boat have a complimentary hatch system with security in mind. The ones listed above didn't generate my confidence. Happy New Year, Rob G *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>> Chuck is snipped: A fellow in our kayak club made a stich-and-glue kayak in which the hatch covers are held down by internal bungees. I tested a prototype kayak with this rig and during a cowboy rescue, my skirt caught the hatch and it is now in Davey Jones' Locker. I recommended they use a different system, despite the good looks. Brian Blankinship >> In a message dated 1/2/2003 2:16:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, cholst_at_bitstream.net writes: I wouldn't expect this to happen if the hatch cover were flush with the deck or a fairly strong pair of bungees were used. As I recall, the one I looked at required a fairly strong pull to open the hatch far enough to unhook the bungee. RalphH: I cut the fore and aft hatches on my S&G "Yare" adaptation out of the deck material (after installation), glued internal rims under (!) the edges, equipped the cutouts with athwartships handles (partially to reestablish the camber of the deck) and hold them down with tight bungees strung from the underside of the hatch covers to wooden hooks on the keel line. No manner of abuse has ripped them off over the last 8 years (heck, I can hardly open them when I want to! :-) and mere foam weather stripping serves as an almost perfect seal even when I'm paddling hull under for extended periods. It's not this system that's bad, but the execution needs to be worked out with a bit of care and planning. Best regards, Ralph Ralph C. Hoehn Ralph_at_Atlatl-Kayaks.com / Ralph_at_PouchBoats.com www.Atlatl-Kayaks.com / www.PouchBoats.com phone: +1-203-324-0901 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:33:32 PDT
