A contributor to the NYCKayaker list just suggested that we read the following online article: > As Freezing Persons Recollect the Snow--First Chill--Then Stupor--Then the > Letting Go > > The cold hard facts of freezing to death > > By Peter Stark > <A HREF="http://web.outsideonline.com/magazine/0197/9701fefreez.html">http://web.outsideonline.com/magazine/0197/9701fefreez.html</A> I just reread that article and urge everyone to read it for a very sobering description of the effects of low temperatures! For the record: Unrelated to paddling, I have undergone extensive survival training and have had the (unpleasant) opportunity to amass considerable experience putting that training to use under professional circumstances; repeatedly in near or actually hypothermic conditions. I have been paddling through winters since my teens. My paddling partner was equally prepared. I sincerely hope that no-one took my somewhat jaunty description of Friday night's activities as portraying a casual, lighthearted or, indeed, arrogant approach to the situation. The trip was planned, the forecast of likely changes in the conditions well known, the required equipment was at hand to deal with most possible situations ... ... I mentioned the result of working without gloves by way of a reminder of the effects of the cold (both my partner's and mine were accessible in the dry bag together with complete sets of dry and warm clothing in case of need). My entire original posting should be read as supporting the NYCKayaker's caution regarding current water temperatures, bearing in mind that some open and "paddlable" water is actually already near or at the freezing point, NOT still at 40 deg F!!! I expressly do NOT advocate that others paddle under the circumstances I described. I urge you to approach this type of paddling with extreme caution since the result of making mistakes is likely to kill you. Best regards, Ralph Ralph C. Hoehn Ralph_at_Atlatl-Kayaks.com / Ralph_at_PouchBoats.com www.Atlatl-Kayaks.com / www.PouchBoats.com phone: +1-203-324-0901 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
A couple of months ago while searching around amazon.com I came across a book not yet published. Expected date , as I recall , was for January 2003. I ordered it. Much to my surprise the book arrived in the mail today. Chris Cunningham's "Building the Greenland Kayak - a manual for its construction and use " from Ragged Mountain Press . I haven't had much time to do more than just skim through it yet but I runs 193 pages covering Design, tools, materials , milling , frame work, the hull , finishing the frame , skinning , deck fittings, the paddle , clothing , accessory equipment , eskimo rolling and variations. The variations covering a rolling kayak , a folding kayak and a kids kayak. The S word appears to have been avoided in favor of the terms " inflatable tubes " and "balance sacks". ISBN 0-07-139237-8 20 bucks should anyone be interested. Regards, David *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Ralph said: > I expressly do NOT advocate that others paddle under the circumstances I described. I urge you to approach this type of paddling with extreme caution since the result of making mistakes is likely to kill you.< Good post script Ralph. I notice the last issue of sea Kayaker magazine has a good article on winter paddling by a fellow in Montreal. Very informative. I always wondered what happened to the condensation. Thanks for sharing the outing notes with us. It wasn't too technical -- wouldn't want Ronnie thinking we were talking a bunch of BS again. :-) Here on the west coast, we don't get real cold conditions, except maybe during artic outbreaks which usually are associated with wind -- rendering wind chill factors to near dangerous. I admire you east coasters that manage year-round paddling (when "soft" water can be found at least). BTW, I always carry a pouch on my PFD with accessible neo gloves and neo skull cap in it, both in winter and summer. And I never did manage to find rubber/latex type gloves suitable, though I do notice some of the drysuit manufactures sell a similar glove with a "reverse" latex gasket which prevents water from running back down into the glove. Doug Lloyd Victoria BC ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~ "Whatever can be said at all can be said clearly and whatever cannot be said clearly should not be said at all." Ludwig Wittgenstein ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Ralph wrote: >>>>>My entire original posting should be read as supporting the NYCKayaker's caution regarding current water temperatures, bearing in mind that some open and "paddlable" water is actually already near or at the freezing point, NOT still at 40 deg F!!!<<<<<<<<< I think that 40 degrees F and freezing of a waters surface are very close together in nature. If I understand this correctly (and it may be much more complicated than this) the surface of water can't freeze when in contact with freezing air until it reaches 40 degrees F. because water is at its greatest density at 40 degrees. Below that temperature the water expands again until freezing (where it expands a lot more). Therefore, the warmer (less dense water) at the surface no longer floats to the top once the surface temperature reaches 40 degrees. The water "turns" and the colder water, lower than 40 degrees F., that had been below floats to the surface as the denser 40 degree water sank below it. Water colder than 40 degrees that had been lower down now rises to the surface and the icy air can bring down the temperature to freezing at the surface rather quickly since warmer water is sinking rather than rising below 40 degrees F. Thank you Ralph for both your recent posts. Matt Broze http://www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Matt Broze wrote: >Ralph wrote: > Everyone writes: This list serve is something else. The amount and scope of information/knowledge that you get by subscribing to the list never ceases to continually keep me in a state of amazement! Matt's last bit about the temp at which water starts to freeze, was great. I had to read it two or three times. It's a rare day that I don't come away knowing something new. John *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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