I don't know how to roll. Let me say that up front. But I want to learn; I really do! One thing concerns me. If I have a seat back tall enough for me to paddle in comfort, will it make it excessively difficult for me to roll my boat? I have a Guillemot 17 ("Plywood Cadillac"). I'm 6'4" (fairly long back.) When I installed the backband that came with the kit, it was so uncomfortable I couldn't stand it! It seemed like all it did was compress my kidneys. I had aspirations of making crossings from the coast of California to the Channel Islands - long periods of paddling - and couldn't see how I could do it unless I was fairly comfortable. I solved the comfort problem with a Wilderness Systems seatback extension. It's about 12" tall. I sewed some nylon straps on it and installed it like a back band, with some bungies to hold it in place up and down. It can pivot around the nylon straps, but it rests against the back of the coaming. I'm thinking that if I tried to lean back (like if I learned to roll) the high cockpit would be more of a problem than the seat back, since it can move. I'm comfortable enough paddling now that I've been able to make a couple of crossings, including one to Catalina Island and back. However, I really want to learn to roll. I'm interested in other people's views on comfort versus "rollability". Can you have both? Do other people get sore backs on long paddles? - G. Snapp *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Gordon Snapp wrote: > > One thing concerns me. If I have a seat back tall enough for me to paddle in > comfort, will it make it excessively difficult for me to roll my boat? > I have always paddled boats with solid backrests: An Oldtown Loon, a Prijon Seayak, and now an Oasis Rainbow where I molded my own backrest out of Lexan. I am flexible enough to be able to lean back, all the way to the deck, so for me it's not a problem. But if it is for you, why not learn to roll ending in a forward position, like most white water paddlers do? Or put a little more force on the paddle, and end up sitting straight? It IS possible to roll a boat in which you can't lean back. However, I suggest you borrow a small white water boat to learn your first roll, then move up to more difficult boats. On a typical day of kayakking you might spend 8 hours sitting in the boat and 10 seconds rolling it. In what position do you want to be the most comfortable? Niels. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Sat, 18 Jan 2003 13:34:10 -0600, "Gordon Snapp" <grsnapp_at_charter.net> said: One thing concerns me. If I have a seat back tall enough for me to paddle in comfort, will it make it excessively difficult for me to roll my boat? I learned to roll for whitewater and always end a roll with my forehead almost touching the front deck. But, when teaching rolls, I demonstrate using the sweep roll that finishes leaning back. I have never been comfortable with a seat back, I am happiest with a backband that touches my back only lightly when paddling normally but, when I push harder with my feet to brace, roll or paddle hard, I settle into the back band harder. The band touches just above the top of my gluteus maximus muscles, it is nowhere near my kidneys. Is it possible your back band was too high? Many are. Comfort is like many other things, people have different ideas about what makes it possible. Good luck! And good for you, wanting to learn to roll. You can't possibly be as safe without one as with one. Jim Tibensky *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
From: "Gordon Snapp" <grsnapp_at_charter.net> > One thing concerns me. If I have a seat back tall enough for me to paddle in > comfort, will it make it excessively difficult for me to roll my boat? Yes and no. Mine is tall enough to be comfortable and I can do a full layback. However, my backband may be too low for you, in which case your seat will be higher and may prevent a layback. I don't know what the cause of your back problem is, however, I do note that many paddlers tend to slouch in their kayaks and find backbands uncomfortable. You should be sitting with your spine sloped slightly forward from the hips. This means that a low backband is fine. If you are sitting and leaning back on your backrest, you will "need" a high backrest and that will impede your layback. Some paddlers, of course, can't paddle with a forward lean all the time and/or will need more back support, so if that's your situation, unfortunately, you're stuck. Dr. ummm, whatisname... The kayaking doctor that lives in southern ON and gives first aid lectures at the Great Lakes Sea Kayaking Symposium... yeah him... He stresses the importance for paddlers of keeping their abdominal muscles strong - it aids posture, prevents back pain and improves paddling. If you are not up to snuff on your abs, then that's something to consider - it will aid your back and contribute to good rolling - recovering from a layback needs strong abs. If you are absolutely stuck with the high back rest, then borrow a kayak (or re-outfit yours temporarily) for an easy layback and learn to roll with a layback roll. I say that, because for many, that's an easy place to start. Then progress to a forward recovery roll - at which point you can replace your high back support. Personally, I'd never paddle a kayak that I can't layback on. A layback is not only a way to finish a roll, it is a way to start some rolls, to start sculling and balance braces, to rest and look at the birds and various other things. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 1/18/2003 4:34:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, grsnapp_at_charter.net writes: > If I have a seat back tall enough for me to paddle in > comfort, will it make it excessively difficult for me to roll my boat? > There's an assumption made frequently that to have comfort, you need to have a waterproof Barcalounger in your kayak. I used to make the same assumption. Also have lousy posture and back pain a lot. However, one of my boats is a VCP Pintail with an "ocean cockpit" --- a tight environment for an aging 6'1" body --- and the stock, hard fiberglass seat pan. Instead of using the backband that came with the boat --- or any backband, for that matter --- I carved a solid seatback from minicell, covered it in neoprene (nylon side out --- and it's great. Very low support, but easy to do laybacks in --- actually, the back deck on my Pintail is often partially awash in any sort of lumpy water, and has minimal freeboard (maybe one to two inches) in flat water, so it's a low after deck. Point is, this seat pan (hard) and seat back (solid fit) creates a low lumbar support, and I try to accomodate the rest with abs and other conditioning (as recommended in another post). My longest time in the Pintail was about 8.5 hours during a very long Potomac River crossing with a swim support event. Didn't feel great when I got out --- okay, fell out --- on the beach, but was not uncomfortable during the paddle. Bottom line [pun unintended but not removed] --- comfort does not necessarily equate to a high seatback in a kayak. Joq *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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