Welcome to the list, Marsanne! "firefly" <firefly_at_eatel.net> wrote: >I've been lurking for about a month. I'm new to sea kayaking, although not to paddling. I have a new VCP Avocet Sweet yak! I just bought a plastic Avocet for rock garden play. The glass version feels a little stiffer and faster, but some days, there's no substitute for plastic. > I am totally hooked on sea kayaking. I also enjoy lightweight backpacking. Have you tried any of the handmade lightweight alcohol stoves that folks are building from cat food, soda, and tuna cans? Any recommendations of one design over the others? I'm attracted to their low price, simplicity, ease of use, low price, and size. I want to make several, and just leave them stuffed in drybags up under the bow of my kayaks for emergency use. Several of us have also had discussion about silnylon tarps and lightweight flies, whether for bivvying or regular camping...comments here appreciated, too! Safe paddling, and welcome aboard! Shawn __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 1/2/2003 1:28:53 PM Central Standard Time, shawnkayak_at_yahoo.com writes: > Have you tried any of the handmade lightweight alcohol stoves that > folks are building from cat food, soda, and tuna cans? Any > recommendations of one design over the others? I'm attracted to their > low price, simplicity, ease of use, low price, and size. I want to > make several, and just leave them stuffed in drybags up under the bow > of my kayaks for emergency use. > > Several of us have also had discussion about silnylon tarps and > lightweight flies, whether for bivvying or regular camping...comments > here appreciated, too! > Check out lightweightbackpacking.com. If that is not the address type alcohol stove in google and you'll see several makers versions. The guy who walked the Appalachian, Continental divide and Pacific Crest Trail in one calendar year used one. If you travel internationally, with the intent of kayaking, make sure you can buy the kind of fuel you need to start your stove with a minimum of fuss. That applies to all stoves, be they alcohol, gas or propane. You may also wish to investigate the small woodburning stove. A friend of mine swears by his and he bypasses all chemical fuels and relies on pine cones and twigs instead. Cooked a meal for 6 on his. ( I doubt it was any good, but they all got fed anyway!) I sometimes use an 8 ounce 8x5 silnylon tarp and a bivy. Very lightweight. My typical seakayaking tent is a 3.75 pound Sierra Designs Clip flashlight tent. It's big enough to change in and not so heavy my lower volume boats don't have a problem with it when I need to take a lot of fresh water. Lots of folks on the list don't like a non freestanding tent. No problems here. A good tent design sheds wind well and my NFS footprint is quite small. But I don't want to see that thread start again. Cheers, Rob G *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> > Several of us have also had discussion about silnylon tarps and > > lightweight flies, whether for bivvying or regular camping...comments > > here appreciated, too! > > I use a trekkers tarp it is great for groups of 3 or 4 you can pitch it high as a tarp or low as a tent. You pitch it with trekker poles for backpacking. You can sleep 2 (3 in a pinch) when you pitch it low. For sea kayaking I modified 2 aluminum golf ball retrievers. Took the ends off and dipped them in the liquad plastic used for hand tools. They worked great and stood up to the strong north winds on Baja for 10 days (we had days of 30-35 mph winds). The golf ball poles allowed me to pitch the tarp high enough so I could stand under it, but the pole retract so it packs easily and it is light weight. Here in the NW a tarp is essential equipment. For solo I have the Canyonlands tent by Northface it is a roomy ultra lightweight tent. Great for one person and it packs up to the size of a large loaf of bread. I have to admit I am an MSR junky when it comes to stoves. I used one of the orginal models (1971 vintage) for a 4 month backpack trip, worked great. I have graduated to the firefly so I can simmer my meals. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I've used MSR stoves since I was but a wee one. I still have their earliest multi-fuel which is basically a small on-off switch flame thrower. Their new series is much more user friendly in regard to simmering, When you're freezing, hungry, dead tired, and sometimes numb from the elbows down and can manage only one or two finger movements at best, and can't absolutely, positively, cannot wait, for a hot sugar laden drink, they come through every time. Pump, open spigot, ignite, blessed be you have flame. Didn't mention they will do this completely wet. Kevin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Like Kevin, I too have been an MSR proponet. I have the Whisperlite, Dragonfly and Pocket Rocket. However, I purchased the Optimus Nova last year, and have been finding myself reaching for that stove more often when out on trips. It will burn everything, even butane canisters, and does not need a different jet to do so. Simmers just as well as the Dragonfly, and much quieter! Downside: more spendy to buy one. SS "Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today" James Dean *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
--- firefly <firefly_at_eatel.net> wrote: > Some people love alcohol stoves, but I don't think they're for me. Have you used them and dislike them? >I have an MSR Firefly and the cannisters for it. I'm jealous--an MSR that can simmer!! A friend told me about a technique to use regular silicone RTV caulking thinned with turpentine to waterproof regular nylon fabric. I might have to try it. > Silnylon is also more delicate than other fabrics, but I baby my gear anyway. I don't tend to baby my gear while in the field (don't try to abuse it, though, either), but I take really good care of it when I'm home--rinsing, drying, storage, etc. Happy New Year! Shawn __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 1/3/2003 1:48:27 AM Central Standard Time, generic_elias_at_yahoo.com writes: > You must paddle a very low volume boat if you have to take into > consideration > the weight (rather than mass) of your tent. It is nice, however, to be > able > to cram more in there. Typically, kayak camping is more a problem of > minimizing volume, rather than minimizing mass. > My issues with gear choices, weight and mass, come from a pretty simple backpacking background. I like simple camps and well made lightweight gear.I camp all year round in the PNW with occassional forays into Alaska, BC and the Desert Southwest. Less weight is less stress on the back and knees. Simple weight saving choices equals better food and water options. For instance, Let's say you have a kayak the manufacturer suggests a maximum payload of 325 pounds. Let's say I weigh 225 pounds. That leaves food, water and gear allowance of 100 pounds. Now, let's say you want to paddle Baja or the Everglades for 7 days. Each gallon of water weighs 8 pounds and a minimum of 56 pounds for 7 days of waterless/wilderness travel. What do the water containers weigh? That leaves me less than 44 pounds for all gear, food and paddle equipment. Start weighing your pfd, paddles, flares, paddlefloats, etc. It all adds up. The beauty of following lightweight principles does not result in lousy gear, bad dehy food, etc. You get different gear, gear that can handle the environment, but help make it still comfortable. Here's another reason to use alcohol stoves if it might work for you: alcohol is available worldwide. In Baja they had no cartridges for my propane stove, though they assured me they did, but made an honest mistake. They made another honest mistake and rented me a coleman propane stove that did not work. I use my Dragonfly often, it works well but is very heavy and needs a load of fuel in a metal bottle. My Optimus alpine micro is very light, efficient and I can buy cartridges all over the US and Canada. Its simple availability of fuel where you are going that dictates the type of stove to bring. I know people who don't even bring a stove! Well made alcohol stoves work well, and are weight and cost effective. Their main components are field replaceable too, just find another beercan! Cheers, Rob G *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> For instance, Let's say you have a kayak the manufacturer suggests a maximum > payload of 325 pounds. Let's say I weigh 225 pounds. That leaves food, water > and gear allowance of 100 pounds. Now, let's say you want to paddle Baja or > the Everglades for 7 days. Each gallon of water weighs 8 pounds and a minimum > of 56 pounds for 7 days of waterless/wilderness travel. Which leads to a whole other thread/debate on how much water to bring on a trip. It certainly takes more trip pre-planning but I tend to go with empty water containers now (other than enroute requirements plus reserve) and a water purifier. Specifically a PUR Explorer, with the screw on carbon element, and the carbon stop-top. The convenience of virus/bacteria/cyst free water with reasonable taste via a filter extends useful load for such things that can't be manufactured on the spot, such as fuel (well at least in the absence of a cold-fusion solution). I've had good results from even the most stagnant, visually repulsive "water" when hiking inland and upland. Kayaking environs usually have me nearer more pleasant water sources though. Perhaps if I didn't live in a rainforrest, I'd be looking to a de-salination pump instead. > Here's another reason to use alcohol stoves if it might work for you: alcohol > is available worldwide. In Baja they had no cartridges for my propane stove, > though they assured me they did, but made an honest mistake. It seems really gutsy to me to rely on cartridges being available at the destination. I've never not been able to obtain White gas/Naptha/Coleman/MSR (not that those are chemically the same, only functionally interchangeable). But I'm pretty sure, unleaded gas and AV-gas would be pretty easy to obtain. Not that alcohol or even kerosene would be that much more difficult. MSR has a fascinating table of fuel name cross-references. There's some interesting homonym transpositions, which could well get one asking for the wrong thing elsewhere. http://www.msrcorp.com/stoves/fuels_int.htm > another honest mistake and rented me a coleman propane stove that did not > work. I use my Dragonfly often, it works well but is very heavy and needs a > load of fuel in a metal bottle. Heavy is even more relative than I thought ;-) I wouldn't have thought of the Dragonfly as heavy, but as for the fuel containers... You're still carrying your alcohol into the field for burning aren't you? And I don't find my empty MSR or Coleman fuel bottle weight in a different weight league than a SIG or Nalgene. > Its simple > availability of fuel where you are going that dictates the type of stove to > bring. If that were so, we wouldn't be having this thread though ;-) And we'd likely all be using stoves that burned unleaded gasoline. While it can be argued that food grade alcohol can be had nearly in as many outlets, it's in a whole different price league, when you're going to burn it for fuel. -- Craig Bowers *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 1/6/2003 7:50:50 PM Central Standard Time, craig_at_bowers.net writes: > It seems really gutsy to me to rely on cartridges being available at the > destination. I've never not been able to obtain White > gas/Naptha/Coleman/MSR (not that those are chemically the same, only > functionally interchangeable). Coleman has an exterior threading on the valve while Optimus, Primus and MSR Prop/But cartridges are interior threaded. Having said that, I do a quick maptech search for locations relative to the airport I can buy cartridges and have yet to be let down in the US. Mexico is another story. The Dragonfly is just over 1 pound without fuel, and as you suggest, fuel is fuel, in weight value, it's the weight of the stove and fuel container I'm trying to reduce. By the way, For all who care: a primus alpine micro stove with a 6 ounce fuel (3.88 ounce fuel volume) lasts me one week of 2 *boiled water goes in bag meals* per day. The tuna can and wire stand alcohol stove weighs a bit less than 3 ounces. Cheers, Rob G *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I read an article recently about the 40% crash in the sparrow population in Europe possibly being caused by the introduction of unleaded gasoline. Makes me wonder what cooking over it might be adding to the food. Jim et al ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Bowers" <craig_at_bowers.net> > And we'd likely all be using stoves that burned unleaded gasoline. > While it can be argued that food grade alcohol can be had nearly in as > many outlets, it's in a whole different price league, when you're going > to burn it for fuel. > > -- Craig Bowers *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I used an Apex until its spectacular fiery demise from a fuel line leak. I am now in the market for a new stove and very much undecided. As you say the liquid fuel units burn every time even in the rain or -20 F. Their weight/btu is unmatched. The dual fuel units also run on kerosene which can be found about anywhere in the world. In the US the Coleman fuel is available about everywhere. With the fuel additives these days I would never use unleaded gas in a stove. Unfortunately these stoves are on airline hit lists and shipping them ahead has not always been a convenient option. The propane/butane stoves have cold weather problems and poor btu/wt ratios. Fuel availability ranges from good - fair in the US. Not sure about other parts of the world. Since the fuel containers are throw away, airlines aren't an issue as long as you can buy them where you are going, but I've never figured out what to do with partially used containers at the end of a trip. Alcohol has low heat output but the fuel is available almost everywhere. The invisible flame can be a severe safety issue. At the moment I'm leaning towards buying a liquid fuel unit for the bulk of my trips that don't require flying and getting a MSR Pocket Rocket for when flying is involved. Of course if the flying situation doesn't improve, shipping the gear ahead may become much more attractive. I'm watching a friend whose stuff was ransacked on a recent flight. The airlines blame the federal agency that has taken over the screenings, and the federal agency won't return phone calls. Airlines have also quietly dropped checked baggage allowances. > I've used MSR stoves since I was but a wee one. I still have their earliest > multi-fuel which is basically a small on-off switch flame thrower. Their new > series is much more user friendly in regard to simmering, When you're > freezing, hungry, dead tired, and sometimes numb from the elbows down and can > manage only one or two finger movements at best, and can't absolutely, > positively, cannot wait, for a hot sugar laden drink, they come through every > time. Pump, open spigot, ignite, blessed be you have flame. Didn't mention > they will do this completely wet. Kevin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
--- WhiteRabbit <whiterabbit_at_empowering.com> wrote: > Alcohol has low heat output but the fuel is > available almost everywhere. I am a big fan of alcohol stoves ever since I started using an Origo on my sailboat. The Trangia is a great option for lighter travel. I don't uderstand why you don't see LOTS more of them, other than that since they are so inexpensive, dealers don't push them. It is the only type of stove I know of where malfunctions/failures are just about nonexistent. It is perhaps one of the most reliable devices you can find. As long as you don't crush it flat it will work. It is also the safest type of stove I know of. > The invisible flame can be a severe safety issue. I think that it is laughable to list safety as a downside to a non-pressurized alcohol stove. They are far and away the safer stove when compared to the competing types of stoves. They don't go up in a big fireball when they fail. A fuel spill on yor gear and clothing is no big deal, it doesn't even smell bad. An alcohol fire can be put out with water if you would get a spill ignited on board or elsewhere. The fact that you don't have a visible warning that it is on doesn't constitute a serious hazard to anyone who pays any attention to what they are doing. You just need to exhibit some miniscule level of caution. Besides, you can still burn your self on any type of hot stove or pot after it is turned off anyway. Pete __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> > I am a big fan of alcohol stoves ever since I started > using an Origo on my sailboat. The Trangia is a great > option for lighter travel. I don't uderstand why you > don't see LOTS more of them, other than that since > they are so inexpensive, dealers don't push them. I can only agree. I have been using the Trangia for almost 15 years now, for backpacking, sailing, cross country winter trips and kayaking. It is true that if you set up an MSR against the Trangia in your kitchen the Trangia will be much slower in bringing a pot of water to boil. But out there the situation is different. The Trangia has an integrated windshield which funnels the flame around the pot and protects efficiently against wind. Then the difference is not so large anymore, if existent at all. The Trangia now comes with a set of composite pots. Aluminum outside with a large heat cinductivity with a stainless steel liner for healthy food preparation. The Trangia also has a very stable base. I have been cooking meals in my canoe while drifting down some river. The Trangia is the only stove design I know that I feel perfectly safe to use inside the tent with doors ziped. In particular in wet and cold areas this makes a huge diffence in comfort. As far as technical problems go - none so far. Two thumbs up for the Trangia! Cheers, Falk. -- Falk Herwig, Victoria B.C., Canada email: fhg_at_telus.net, ym ID: fgfgfg40 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Shawn, Regarding emergency stoves, I am currently stashing solid fuel tabs and a small metal cup in my yak emergency kit, for emergency use only, such as if a day trip turns into an overnighter. Some people love alcohol stoves, but I don't think they're for me. I have an MSR Firefly and the cannisters for it. Heats water in no time. I also have a Titanium pot. As for shelter, when backpacking, I usually am with a dog and a human buddy, so I had a tent custom made by Carole Wellman at Dancing Light Gear. She and her mate hike all summer, make gear all winter, and they make fantastic gear. (www.trailquest.net ) I have the Tacoma tent, slept in it New Year's night. This one is 45 square feet, big enough for 2 people and one spoiled rotten dog. I plan on ordering a Tacoma solo eventually. I also have an Integral Designs Silshelter, but I don't use it because I am in a very buggy climate. Until I get around to putting it on Ebay, I am keeping it in the yak as emergency shelter. It's for sale, by the way, if you're in a suitable climate and are interested. I am sold on Silnylon. The only possible disadvantage is that it is slippery so if you are in a Silnylon tent you need to be level or you will slide around on the floor. One solution for that is to dig a hip trench perpendicular to your body, which I do anyway, makes a nice resting place for my hips. With a hip trench, I sleep almost as good as I do at home in my bed! Silnylon is also more delicate than other fabrics, but I baby my gear anyway. I don't baby my office, I don't baby my house, but I baby my gear, LOL! Thanks for the warm welcome. Marsanne *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:33:32 PDT