Paddlewisers, I've been surprised reading the posts about carrying loaded kayaks, and I just saw that Sea Kayaker Magazine has an article about it too. My rule is that I don't carry a loaded kayak at all. The last thing I need to happen on a trip is to have a back injury. So I load my kayak a few feet from the water and then drag it in. It's better to put a little wear and tear on the hull than my back. I don't think that carrying loaded kayaks is any faster either. If there are four people who have to move four kayaks, and four of them carry one kayak at a time, that's four trips they have to take. By myself I can carry my kayak and all of my gear easily in four trips, if not less. Plus, I don't have to wait around and bother with the team effort thing. I "just say no" to carrying loaded kayaks! "Darwin" Duane www.rollordrown.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> My rule is that I don't carry a loaded kayak at all. The last thing I need to > happen on a trip is to have a back injury. So I load my kayak a few feet from > the water and then drag it in. It's better to put a little wear and tear on > the hull than my back. Did anybody recommend carrying them for such a distance that it becomes a kind of portaging ? :-) I normally carry empty kayak somewhere close to waves, but still on dry spot and load. If water is perfeclty still, then I load with bow in water. And then - drag. Seems to be the best way for a solo paddler. And I will tell you even more - I'm going to buy a Primex (=Roleez) inflatable wheels to avoid carrying even empty 55+ lbs. For 2+ people it's safe to carry empty, but better to avoid carrying loaded kayaks (even singles). Alex. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I went on a couple of Ed Gulliet's (sp?) trips before he got out of the business and he told us that carring loaded boats (especially plastis ones) damaged the seal on the bulkheads and caused them to leak. Also since most of my trips are solo I would be an idiot to risk a back injury by trying to carry a loaded boat. Bob *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
[Bob] >I went on a couple of Ed Gulliet's (sp?)and he told us that carring loaded >boats (especially plastis ones) damaged the seal on the bulkheads and >caused them to leak. Carrying loaded boats using correctly placed slings will place less stress on the hull than paddling steep, short chop. If the seals are that weak they are going to fail anyway. A trolley should be placed just about under the aft bulkhead. Also says a lot for wooden boats - you can abuse them and there won't be any bulkhead damage if correctly built. ["Darwin" Duane] > So I load my kayak a few feet from > the water and then drag it in. It's better to put > a little wear and tear onthe hull than my back. > I don't think that carrying loaded kayaks is any faster either. Try walking back and forth a couple of hundred yards and tell me it is faster than loading beside the vehicle!!!!! And as for dragging it, you can place its bow in the water before taking it off the trolley. Use a trolley. [Jim et al] > Do some tides change faster than others? Yes as the height of tides varies throughout the world, and generally needs to "go the distance vertically" in 6 hours (low to high). Slower would definitely be the answer where there is only one tide a day. The "tide speed" should actually/could refer to the beach slope angle too. The rate of rise and fall varies during the tide cycle as it is in its purest form, a sine wave. Again that varies throughout the world. Have a look at some of the Japanese tides and you'll see what looks like 2 frequencies a little out of phase and differing frequency over a few days. The rate will also depend in any one place on whether it is a spring or neap tide. Check the height of a tide in the Bay of Fundy (40 feet?) and apply that to a gently sloping beach for "drag distance"!!!!!! Alex *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Mon, 24 Feb 2003 17:47:09 -0800, "Strosaker" <strosaker_at_cox.net> said: My rule is that I don't carry a loaded kayak at all You obviously do not use a folding boat! And your system would never be better in a fast changing tide, I don't think. Jim Tibensky *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I guess 4 people, 2 to a side with straps is the accepted method to carry loaded boats. I guess 2 could as well with a certain amount of discomfort and I'm sure there are situations where it's advantageous to carry a fully loaded boat. Short of covert night operations, (Ralph's "commando camping" included), or dragging your boat out of the surf zone, I'm having trouble thinking just when it would something you would want to opt for. Seems to me it's bad for the boat and bad for the paddler. Kevin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Do some tides change faster than others? Jim et al >And your system would never be better in a fast changing tide, I don't think. > Jim Tibensky *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 12:11:31 -0500, jfarrelly5_at_comcast.net said: > Do some tides change faster than others? To be more accurate I probably should have said: The system would be very difficult to employ in the situation where the tide change is at its highest rate [remember the rule of twelves?] and dropping on a beach that has little slope. I believe you would be chasing the water so much there would be little time to pack. That certainly was my experience in Glacier Bay with a sixteen foot total tide change on one trip there. We floated the doubles and then packed them. By the end of the packing process the poor boat loaders [I was lucky/smart enough to be a boat holder] were running a quarter mile with the gear. Wisely choosing to sling carry the boats after that, everything was simpler and easier. Jim Tibensky *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Couple of advantages of carrying loaded kayaks: 1. I've seen some outfitters with larger groups use 4-inch wide webbing with handles on each end loop the webbing under some __huge__ double kayaks, maybe three or four people on each side, and carry fully-loaded yaks from water to above the tideline ... and back. Their system avoided the need to fully unpack the doubles. They just dealt out food, gear, etc., from the yaks as needed. Stuff not needed stayed in the yak. They saved at least an hour or so each day in this -- most of the clients were inexperienced, and might have taken a long time to pack those doubles without close supervision. 2. This was in the Charlottes, where the vertical range of the tides was huge -- in some places over 15 feet (!) -- so carrying gear from camp to the yak at low tide and loading it at the tideline would have been very time-consuming. And, over the half hour or more it might take, the tide could fall a foot or more. On a shallow-sloping beach, that could make for a mandatory carry (or, drag) of a couple hundred feet, anyway. These boats were FG, and the guides did not want them scratched severely by successive drags across barnacle-strewn beaches. Otherwise, I'm with Darwin Duane -- I pack near the tide line and drag to fit. My FG boats have scratched bottoms, 'cause my boats are for using, not looking at. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> You obviously do not use a folding boat! And your system would never be > better in a fast changing tide, I don't think. > Tide is a problem in some places. As to the folding kayak - I've used it, and had to carry close to where the tide would be by when I expected my loading completed (sounds complicated :-). I carried it unloaded, with floatation bags, rudder etc, and it was heavy and inconvenient enough (58 lbs). Upper (cockpit) stringers are not intended for such outward lateral stresses. Even end-support cart would help, not to mention middle-support cart. Few times I had to drag it over boulders closer to water edge while loading, and both my soul and kayak hull were suffering :-). I think *middle* cart is not an option when it's loaded, but *end*-support cart (or middle one, used at the end) would be useful. Alex. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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