PaddleWise by thread

From: <richcasale_at_comcast.net>
subject: [Paddlewise] More Cold Wether Clothing Questions
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 08:00:45 -0500
I'm reading all kinds of stuff on this list about cold weather clothing and
I am hearing a lot of varied answers.  Here's what I have and what I'd like
to do.

I paddle a 12' Pungo in the rivers of Maryland.  I stay away from choppy
water and I never go out into the bay.  Currently I own a NRS HydroSkin
Little Jon with some HydroSkin socks for wearing with my wet shoes, and the
HydroSkin gloves.  I also have some very technical WinBlock ATC fleece that
is very thin but extremely warm.

I would like to get out into the water as soon as possible but I know I'm
going to need some additional clothing.  I am considering the purchase of
the NRS Steamer (complete one piece) wet suit for use under my fleece.  I
don't think I'll have to the budget to go out and buy a dry suit this year.

Here come the questions:

1.  Would I wear my PDF over the fleece jacket or under the fleece jacket?

2.  What range of water temperatures do you think I could safely paddle in
with the steamer suit and fleece for insulation?

3.  Would there be much of a different between the HydroSkin socks and the
3mm neoprene in terms of keeping my feet warm?

4.  When I do eventually get a dry suit, I would assume that the laytex
gaskets would have to go against my skin and not against the neoprene
sleeves of the steamer for proper water seal.  Is this correct?

***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: <Kevin50110_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] More Cold Wether Clothing Questions
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 11:50:14 EST
Must be because of the weather, but all this discussion on how to keep warm 
leads me, who has an overactive internal furnace to ask, how do you all keep 
the temperature tolerable with all this fleece and rubber and gore-tex and 
all else on? I cook in a 3mm Farmer John, or just simple old wool, let all 
the rest. 

Kevin

***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: <Kevin50110_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] More Cold Wether Clothing Questions
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 13:29:08 EST
Kirk, 

ONLY gloves!!!!  Ay... ye be a true hard salt ye be. New Hampshire folk must 
be a lot different than I thought : )

When it's really cold I'll wear my tuilliq and gloves but not much else, so 
I'm sorry to say I'm a poor example of immersion safety. I've often thought a 
small bailing bucket might come in handy for a quart of sea water down my 
suit.

Just gloves you say?.... impressive.

Kevin

***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Jennifer Pivovar <kayak_at_headwinds.org>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] More Cold Wether Clothing Questions
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 11:18:09 -0800 (PST)
Hi Rich -
My opinions follow...
> 1.  Would I wear my PDF over the fleece jacket or under the fleece
> jacket?
Over.  If it fits over the PFD it's probably too big, will be hard to
swim in not to mention it covers all your PFD pockets full of life's
essentials.
> 2.  What range of water temperatures do you think I could safely
> paddle in with the steamer suit and fleece for insulation?
I paddle in 45 degree water and up in 3mm neoprene, no fleece, paddle
jacket. YMMV
> 3.  Would there be much of a different between the HydroSkin socks
> and the 3mm neoprene in terms of keeping my feet warm?
Better would be to get a pair of Chota brookies or muklucks and your
feet will stay DRY and even warmer.  I wear my brookies (neoprene knee
waders) with polartex socks underneath and have toasty toes.
> 4.  When I do eventually get a dry suit, I would assume that the
> laytex gaskets would have to go against my skin and not against the 
> neoprene sleeves of the steamer for proper seal.  Is this correct?
Yes.  Although I can't imagine wearing a steamer under a dry suit.  The
hydroskin little john, some days, sure.  But really fleece under a
drysuit is the perfect combo.
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Doug Lloyd <dalloyd_at_telus.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] More Cold Wether Clothing Questions
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 21:50:42 -0800
Kevin said:
>>Must be because of the weather, but all this discussion on how to keep
warm leads me, who has an overactive internal furnace to ask, how do you all
keep the temperature tolerable with all this fleece and rubber and gore-tex
and all else on? I cook in a 3mm Farmer John, or just simple old wool, let
all the rest.<<

I'm a naturally hot person too. In cold weather, my choices usually reflect
the state of the elements, which usually include cloudy days, rain, waves
and spray, etc. A FJ/drytop or drysuit are the obvious choice, usually.
Ending the cold war isn't too difficult with what is avaliable today. On any
kind of a warm day I really perspire a lot in any of this getup (I sleep
with a fan on year-round, even in winter), so I too hear what you're saying.

For solo paddling, despite discomfort, I always maintain some type of core
protection. Depending on money, fit, and things like technology preferences,
I'd at least wear a pair of fuzzy-rubber shorts. In my case, my FJ is my
minimum protection. I will sometimes peel it down to the waist and put my
PFD under the deck elastics if needed. I always retain a thin polypro
T-shirt or tank top, if only for skin protection from sunburn. But it still
gets hot. A little sculling and water infiltration usually does the trick if
I'm still overheating.

My biggest difficulty is winter paddling on a calm, warm day. Californian's
are well versed in the tensions between comfort and protection. I hate to
admit it, but on days described as warm, in winter, I will often paddle with
just my polypro T-shirt (as opposed to a secondary protection of nylon
shell). I'd be in dire straits if I had to remain in the water for very
long, but with the core protection in place, even a reasonable delay
re-entering isn't too big a problem. Once back in, that same warm
temperature and sunshine wicks the shirt dry -- or dry enough.

Those participating in racing have their unique issues as well, obviously.
Both the aggressive paddler, as well as the recreational paddler with a hot
furnace can't deny the discomfort of wearing gear above the waist that
causes you to sweat profusely. My strategies include a long-sleeved polypro
shirt for cloudier days, or a short-arm paddling jacket which keeps wind and
light spray/rain away from my core upper torso, with the polypro T-shirt in
place. I've tried paddling in various thicknesses of fleece (long-sleeved)
but the water soaks up around the arms. Even with bare forearms, the shortie
paddling top has been a nice way to ventilate while maintain some upper
protection. Check them out.

I also drink water religiously, any time of year. In summer, if I drink a
lot, I also add salt into the equation. Water alone will not prevent
dehydration in certain circumstances. Winter paddling in dry conditions also
requires water intake to help the body regulate. I also don't mind a bit of
shivering. Shivering is a good thing. It is your bodies way of helping it
keep warm. On longer-duration paddlers or on shore, I do everything to
"dampen" shivering and keep muscles warm.

Like everyone else on this list (I'm sure) I still make errors in judgement
embarking on a paddle. I dress too warm, then warm up further while out on
the water to the point of excessive perspiration. Once soaked as the day
progresses, I get really cold. I don't know what the perfect answer is. On a
long trip, I do know it helps to wash your insulating layers with fresh
water once and awhile, to wash out the salt crystallization (if coastal
kayaking the salt-chuck) which helps the insulation to wick and dispel
moisture with greater efficiency.

I also know that most of my touring friends have not found fuzzy rubber full
tops to be really useful: too hot in moderate conditions, not warm enough in
cold conditions. WW guys seem to fair better with them. I also have an
opinion about drysuits: they provide the ultimate immersion protection where
conditions warrant, but should be used with fleece or poly insulation as the
only insulating layer next to the inner drysuit material. Your range of
motion with the frictionless effect is remarkable. Of course, it is not as
good as not wearing any insulation or protective apparel, for that is truly
complete freedom. It is however, not a freedom I indulge very often in my
neck of the woods.

Peace man!


Doug Lloyd
Victoria BC

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~
"Whatever can be said at all can be said clearly and whatever cannot be said
clearly should not be said at all."
Ludwig Wittgenstein
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:33:33 PDT