> I'm a relatively new kayaker but I've been bicycling a long time. I'm over > 50, so I'm "The Old Man and the Bicycle." > Gordon: Bicycle touring and kayak touring really complement each other as wanderer's sports. The folding boat, in that repect, is like the suitcase bike. With my K-1 Feathercraft I can fly into a city, buy the fuel and water I need and take a taxi to the beach. With a bike friday, I can set it up right at the airport if need be. Now the impossible fantasy is to do both at once. Upon arriving at your preliminary destination, you set up the bike, stuff your supplies in the suitcase (which doubles as a trailer), and secure the K-1 bag to the top of the trailer. Then you're ready for anything, except when you get to the beach and try to figure how to cart the suitcase on the kayak! But for that, you could wander around the world... douglas montgomery *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Now the impossible fantasy is to do both at once. Upon arriving at your > preliminary destination, you set up the bike, stuff your supplies in the > suitcase (which doubles as a trailer), and secure the K-1 bag to the top of > the trailer. Then you're ready for anything, except when you get to the beach > and try to figure how to cart the suitcase on the kayak! People have problems loading anything bigger than Primes cart (10" wheels) into K-1. Carrying one of smaller F-crafts on the back while biking, (like K-light), could be better solution than trailer, but again - what to do with bicycle upon arrival to launch site? :-). Some smaller wheels' bike might feet into Kleppers, with frame partially in, and wheels on the aft-deck, but it seems impossible to bike with Klepper AE1 or AE2 on the back. Alex. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Some smaller wheels' bike might feet into Kleppers, with frame partially in, > and wheels on the aft-deck, but it seems impossible to bike with Klepper > AE1 or AE2 on the back. > I think the only way to carry a bicycle at sea would be putting it in a pelican case type suitcase. Bicycles HATE salt water. Wheels on the deck wouldn't be wheels for long. But how to tote the suitcase? Lashed atop the spare paddles on the back deck? I would never attempt it. Pulling it as a raft? Let's face it-- it's the impossible dream. Just can't be done. douglas in sf *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Douglas said: I think the only way to carry a bicycle at sea would be putting it in a pelican case type suitcase. Bicycles HATE salt water. Wheels on the deck wouldn't be wheels for long. But how to tote the suitcase? Lashed atop the spare paddles on the back deck? I would never attempt it. Pulling it as a raft? Let's face it-- it's the impossible dream. Just can't be done. I think it could be done with a Brompton, because I suspect that kayakers have fit much larger packages into a kayak than the folded Brompton. Also, you could try a bike like the Strida, which uses a rubber belt drive and aluminum components (sure, you'd still need to spray down the moving parts with a water shedding lubricant, but I have to do that on my bikes after every ride in the winter here in New England, because you'd think the roads were made of salt around here -- we use a ton of it on the roads to prevent ice from forming). I think the Strida's folded package would be kind of awkward unless you had a kayak w/o bulkheads, though...but it's cool to look at. My husband has one, and it's a real head-turner. Folds up like an umbrella stroller. http://www.strida.com http://www.bromptonbike.com The Brompton brochure says that the folded package is 22in (square) by 10 in. Couldn't such a package fit in an extra-large drybag? You're right about the on the deck thing, though. Folding bikes generally aren't light, and I would think that having something that heavy on the deck would really affect your ability to stay upright... Lisa W. (we have a Birdy, a Strida, and several recumbent bikes...I live near the Charles River, and would love to try a bike-towed kayak trailer to get down to the put-in without the hassle of a car. You can peek at the bikes here: http://www.cadence90.com/spincycle/bikeharem.html) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> the Strida's folded package would be kind of awkward unless you had a > kayak w/o bulkheads, though...but it's cool to look at. My husband has > one, and it's a real head-turner. Folds up like an umbrella stroller. > > http://www.strida.com > http://www.bromptonbike.com > > The Brompton brochure says that the folded package is 22in (square) by > 10 in. Couldn't such a package fit in an extra-large drybag? Taking chance of being nerdy, but I was interested and have gave some thought to this option (bike + folding kayak); it gives a new dimension to that sought-after freedom from cars, fuels, taxis etc. I've camped in some places where they have no taxis at all, even at the airport. But looks like this eventually becomes coslty, difficult, and sets a lot of restrictions. Hardshell kayaks are out of the list - all expedition kayaks that I know, have bulkheads and hatches. Canoes - that's another story, why not. Folding kayaks: let's look at Brompton (Strida is large even for folding double - 40" * 20", may fit, but will leave no room for anything else). Feathercafts singles better be out of the list (hard to load bike through their cockpits, besides inner width is barely enough - I wouldn't take chances to puncture skin from inside, even if bike would fit); F-rcaft double Klondike might accomodate Brompton with less of pain. Klepper and Folbot doubles - yes, (Pouch double, may be). But no double can be carried on the back - trailer is needed. And again, trailer takes space in kayak. Another issue - how to paddle double kayak solo. Klepper AEII is OK with that; don't know about other doubles. Sailing - yes, any double can be sailed solo. But again, sailing gear adds to volume and weight of trailer (keep in mind, that wide double would weigh 80+ lbs, being about 4 ft long pack). Alex. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 05:52 PM 3/12/2003 -0500, DMon707_at_aol.com wrote: > >I think the only way to carry a bicycle at sea would be putting it in a >pelican case type suitcase. Bicycles HATE salt water. Wheels on the deck >wouldn't be wheels for long. But how to tote the suitcase? Lashed atop the >spare paddles on the back deck? I would never attempt it. Pulling it as a >raft? Let's face it-- it's the impossible dream. Just can't be done. > >douglas in sf The "just can't be done" statement seems to evoke a design challange, at least in my mind. Anyway, building on Douglas' post, I started to wonder about towing a pelican-like box constructed with a hull shape (bow and stern, etc.) and thought I'd ask the list the following: Has anyone had experience towing a storage container with their kayak? Please contribute details like container shape, size, weight, towed distance, problems, sea conditions, etc. You get the idea. I think it would be interesting to explore this topic. Bill Leonhardt *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Has anyone had experience towing a storage container with their > kayak? Please contribute details like container shape, size, weight, towed > distance, problems, sea conditions, etc. For about 11 years I would go on 1 week trips towing a single kayak behind a double. I had the entire family in the double (Wife plus two kids). We carried extra gear in the double. This was all off the west coast of Vancouver Island. The first time, I towed a Keeowee kayak which was a little plastic thing. It is a little short kayak that is quite wide. It worked OK but one reason I wanted to bring a single was for short trips after we got to a destination and the Keeowee was not good for any distance. One problem that I had one day was in big waves from the stern the kayak surfed into the back of the double and bent a rudder. Solution was just to lengthen the tow rope. I was paddling with friends with their own kids who were more frugal with their gear and more comfortable paddling with things in their lap so they did not tow anything. I would tend to fall behind but not that much. Another problem was that they would grab the kayak being towed and I would find that I was towing more than just my own "dingy" But as I pulled the little Keeowee I wondered whether it was actually slowing me down a little because it was being towed so close to its hull speed. So I started towing a Mariner kayak (first version). That worked well. I had been concerned about the kayak capsizing but that never happened in all those years with some time in pretty rough conditions. I made a tight cockpit cover that would have survived a capsize. I was careful to put the heaviest stuff low in the kayak and in general a loaded kayak without a person inside is pretty stable. I found that I had to load it stern heavy (a lot) so that it would not snake back and forth when paddling. In bad conditions, it would surf but I towed it far behind the kayak. When it surfed it might curve off course and then get dragged abruptly back into course so I used a fairly stretchy tow line so mitigate the jerk. With the kayak behind me, I would tend to just forget it. But I did remember not to play in rock gardens which I was not inclined to do much with my family anyway. (When I forgot, my wife in the front of the kayak would remind me) We lost the kayak once because of the hook disengaging. I paddled for quite a distance before I realized it which is testimony to the "feel" of paddling a fully loaded double with 4 people in it. And I had a quick release mechanism if ever had to disengage. Now, happily, my kids are old enough to paddle their own kayaks. (Happened when the youngest was 10) Paddling in the back of a double is almost a different sport and not one that I like as much as using a single. Towing the single gave me the ability to do little trips in a kayak that I liked after we reached our destination. And packing was easy. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Robert, Thanks for sharing these experiences with us. I was just the kind of input I had hoped to get. I'm thinking know that if i build a small kayak for kids to use, it might have an after-life, once it's outgrown, as a towed storage barge. Bill At 11:13 PM 3/13/2003 -0800, Robert Livingston & Pam Martin wrote: > > Has anyone had experience towing a storage container with their > > kayak? Please contribute details like container shape, size, weight, towed > > distance, problems, sea conditions, etc. > >For about 11 years I would go on 1 week trips towing a single kayak behind a >double. I had the entire family in the double (Wife plus two kids). We >carried extra gear in the double. This was all off the west coast of >Vancouver Island. > >The first time, I towed a Keeowee kayak which was a little plastic thing. It >is a little short kayak that is quite wide. It worked OK but one reason I >wanted to bring a single was for short trips after we got to a destination >and the Keeowee was not good for any distance. > >One problem that I had one day was in big waves from the stern the kayak >surfed into the back of the double and bent a rudder. Solution was just to >lengthen the tow rope. > >I was paddling with friends with their own kids who were more frugal with >their gear and more comfortable paddling with things in their lap so they >did not tow anything. I would tend to fall behind but not that much. Another >problem was that they would grab the kayak being towed and I would find that >I was towing more than just my own "dingy" > >But as I pulled the little Keeowee I wondered whether it was actually >slowing me down a little because it was being towed so close to its hull >speed. So I started towing a Mariner kayak (first version). That worked >well. I had been concerned about the kayak capsizing but that never happened >in all those years with some time in pretty rough conditions. I made a tight >cockpit cover that would have survived a capsize. I was careful to put the >heaviest stuff low in the kayak and in general a loaded kayak without a >person inside is pretty stable. I found that I had to load it stern heavy (a >lot) so that it would not snake back and forth when paddling. In bad >conditions, it would surf but I towed it far behind the kayak. When it >surfed it might curve off course and then get dragged abruptly back into >course so I used a fairly stretchy tow line so mitigate the jerk. > >With the kayak behind me, I would tend to just forget it. But I did remember >not to play in rock gardens which I was not inclined to do much with my >family anyway. (When I forgot, my wife in the front of the kayak would >remind me) > >We lost the kayak once because of the hook disengaging. I paddled for quite >a distance before I realized it which is testimony to the "feel" of paddling >a fully loaded double with 4 people in it. > >And I had a quick release mechanism if ever had to disengage. > >Now, happily, my kids are old enough to paddle their own kayaks. (Happened >when the youngest was 10) > >Paddling in the back of a double is almost a different sport and not one >that I like as much as using a single. Towing the single gave me the ability >to do little trips in a kayak that I liked after we reached our destination. > >And packing was easy. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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