Evan said: >>The discussion on dumping surf launches has been very interesting, but I'd like to ask if anyone has suggestions regarding landing...nano-seconds needed to avoid getting sucked back out by the receding waves...How do other people handle this?<< I assume you mean landing on a steep lee-shore with a foreshortened dumping surf zone with surf surging up the gradient just as it breaks(?). This can be a difficult spot to land gracefully. Forget finesse -- the main thing is to make it ashore in relative safety. There are only three possibilities and two sub-possibilities: Coming in backwards; coming in sideways (a broach to starboard or port); and coming in forwards. Backwards isn't normally the way I'd land in dumping surf (though if I was trying to break out off dumping surf, it is entirely possible to get thrown backwards. If I was stuck on a beach with Niels and he was eating dead Seagulls and drinking his urine, I'd definitely try to breakout! -) ). Broaching in can be problematic too. If you try to bail out landward and another wave hits or the boat gets sucked back out then slammed shoreward again just as you are alighting, the hapless kayaker runs the risk of getting seriously nailed by his inertia-guided fibreglass weapon of mass-production destruction. On the flip side, if the kayaker leans seaward to avoid the above potential for injury, on a steep beach you are probably at risk of disembarkation into deep water due to the readily receding shoreline and attendant drop-off depth seaward. Unable to gain footing, etc., the hapless kayaker gets maytagged either half out of his or her boat, or thrown up against the kayak if you did make it out. Over the years I've found it easiest to nudge my bow up the beach, usually at a slight angle toward my non-offside brace. Then, I simply roll over sideways and let the wash take my kayak "off" me like a pair of jeans. I still have a relatively solid footing once out, the kayak cant mow me over, and I'm not in deep water with my hand, elbow and head dunking under the water trying to pull myself out of the kayak's cockpit. With bowline in hand, I run up the steep beach as best as possible, struggling to maintain tenure with the kayak which is usually getting sucked back out. The steeper inclines are the worst, especially with a fully loaded kayak, but getting nailed by your own kayak upon exiting, especially fully loaded, isn't something I wish to repeat, having had the pleasure once before. Skilled paddlers will more than likely be acquainted with a number of the above points, and may also have found different beaches and different boat/cockpit combinations mean different strategies. Most landing situations are on a case-by-case basis. Making progress out through dumping surf is usually accommodated by patience and persistence (like many things in life). Forget rogue waves and all that set-counting. I usually wait patiently, sitting in the kayak, spray skirt on, waiting for the un-rogue set to eventually come in. Be alert and ready for it. Keep the situation, um, fluid. There is usually a dead spot in the wave sets sooner or later. Its all about timing and working with the rhythms extant. And PFD's and helmets please - at least on northern coastlines up here. Doug Lloyd Victoria BC (best blooming city in Canada) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~ "Whatever can be said at all can be said clearly and whatever cannot be said clearly should not be said at all." Ludwig Wittgenstein ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> The discussion on dumping surf launches has been very interesting, but I'd > like to ask if anyone has suggestions regarding landing. In our group, I > seem to be the one who always "gets volunteered" to go in first. The > problem I run into, especially on a steeper beach, is that I land ok, but > then don't quite get my spray skirt off in the nano-seconds needed to avoid > getting sucked back out by the receding waves running down the beach. > However, I do usually manage to get the skirt off just in time to be dumped > upon by the next wave crashing on the beach, thereby filling my boat with > sand and water and cursing kayaker. How do other people handle this? > Well, it appears that no-one else wants to tackle this, so I guess I'll bite. Landing in the surf requires a certain amount of discipline and patience. You want to try to land on the back of a wave and ride it up the beach as far as possible before it subsides. While it is possible to ride up onto the beach on the front of a wave, you will not have as much control and you might receive a severe beating in a really brutal shore break. Once your boat is on the beach if you do not think you have enough "nano-seconds" to spring from your boat hitting the ground running in order to reach the bow and grab the toggle to drag your boat up the beach before the next wave hit's you, then you should sit tight, firmly grasping your paddle, with your sprayskirt in place, and wait. You may be able to use the next wave to nudge your boat further up the beach and give you more time to exit. Or the next wave may drag you back out into the water in which case you will need to make another approach. Really steep beaches might require a number of attempts before you are able to "stick" the boat on the beach with enough time to exit. If the surf is really large and dumping then it will require considerable bracing to remain upright. If you are not conformable with this, then you should really look for a beach with a gentler more forgiving slope to land on. When you do finally decide that you have the time to exit your boat then you should ALWAYS exit on the ocean side of the boat - never on the beach side. Finding yourself between your boat and the beach in the surf zone, either swimming in the water, or standing in the shallows, can be a very bad thing :-) Good luck! Scott So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Yesterday while sorting slides for an upcoming show I came across a photo I took of a snapped Necky Tofino double kayak. I was one of two civilians taking part in a police fund-raising paddle on the east coast of NZ's South Island, from Kaikoura to Christchurch. On the second day the paddler with me, who was prone to impulse, got tired of waiting for the right wave sets on a steep beach with a good dump, so we launched. I was in the rear and I'm told that I was paddling air as a huge dumper collapsed under us. We didn't witness the carnage as two policeman, not to be outdone by a couple of civvies, followed us into another set. They got it completely wrong, and were paddling on wet sand as a wall of water hit them from above. The Tofino was snapped through the front cockpit, dislocating a knee of the paddler there, while as the back half was tumbled the rear paddler attempted a high brace on the beach, dislocating his shoulder. The tale was reported as a "rouge wave", and we continued that day on our own. The other paddlers drove down the coast, determined to paddle a similar distance at the end, to make up for their lost day. By the end of the trip this vow was forgotten, and we were deemed honourary policemen. I learnt quite a lot on that trip! -- John Kirk-Anderson Banks Peninsula NEW ZEALAND *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Scott said: - >You want to try to land on the back of a wave and >ride it up the beach as far as possible before it >subsides. While it is possible to ride up onto the >beach on the front of a wave, .................... >...........................if you do not think you >have enough "nano-seconds" to spring from your boat >hitting the ground running in order to reach the bow >and grab the toggle to drag your boat up the beach >before the next wave hit's you, then you should sit >tight, firmly grasping your paddle, with your >sprayskirt in place, and wait...................... G'Day Scott, Thanks for that analysis. I'm one of those who have real problems getting out of a boat in even small dumping surf. Partly because mine is a narrow cockpit boat. During Easter week I'll be facing a fair bit of moderate but possibly awkward surf so, really appreciate your suggestions. All the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Doug wrote: - >Over the years I've found it easiest to nudge my bow >up the beach, usually at a slight angle toward my >non-offside brace. Then, I simply roll over sideways >and let the wash take my kayak "off" me like a pair >of jeans. I still have a relatively solid footing once >out, the kayak cant mow me over, and I'm not in deep >water with my hand, elbow and head dunking under the >water trying to pull myself out of the kayak's cockpit. >With bowline in hand, I run up the steep beach as best >as possible, struggling to maintain tenure with the >kayak which is usually getting sucked back out. The >steeper inclines are the worst, especially with a fully >loaded kayak, but getting nailed by your own kayak upon >exiting, especially fully loaded, isn't something I wish >to repeat, having had the pleasure once before. G'Day Doug, At first I thought it was crazy until I realised you weren't talking about rolling completely over. Now its begining to sound eminently practical if one is likely to be trashed anyway! I didn't understand completely though. Do you roll into or away from your non offside brace and is the non offside brace side at an acute angle to the beach? Is it the forward wash that takes the kayak off? I've tried to draw a diagram with the #### representing the kayak. Willing or not I'm likely to have to do this next week - so very interested. Wish I had Jackies skills to properly draw the whole thing!! Beach Bow ------------------------------------#--------- # # non offside brace side # roll over side # # # Stern All the best, PeterO (Whose signature isn't the next big wave:~) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
PeterO said: >G'Day Doug, At first I thought it was crazy until I realised you weren't talking about rolling completely over. Now its beginning to sound eminently practical if one is likely to be trashed anyway! I didn't understand completely though. Do you roll into or away from your non offside brace and is the non offside brace side at an acute angle to the beach? Is it the forward wash that takes the kayak off?< Yeap. Your drawing was fine too. With a tight cockpit, I sometimes find it easier to roll over and play dead for a minute. I've sure been trashed enough over the years alighting upright just as a wave hits a steep beach or the wash recedes into the next dumper, and have found certain mechanical elements to aid safe disembarkation. I'm not too fussy how it might look to an observer, but I imagine it could be viewed as a bit unorthodox. Certainly I use the rollover onto the side manoeuvre launching too. If I get spun to a broach trying to launch, I'll roll over on my strong side if I can, then try to spin the kayak like a game of spin the bottle, though in the case of a miscued launch, I usually only need to spin back 90 degrees to get the bow pointing seaward again, then roll back to sitting upright. this all takes place out of the water, right? A kayak with a goodly portion of width amidships (like a Gulfstream for example) can be very easy to spin back around on its side on the sand. It saves having to bail out in the wash-out zone, dumping the water out of the cockpit, and starting all over again. I realize there are some hot paddlers on this list, better versed at surf scenarios that I am - so hot that their hair would be on fire when they paddle their kayak if it weren't for the helmet and head dousing in the surf :-) I be just a humble kayaker that bumbles his way along here and there these days, but I do know what works for me. Doug Lloyd Victoria BC ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~ "Whatever can be said at all can be said clearly and whatever cannot be said clearly should not be said at all." Ludwig Wittgenstein ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Doug wrote: - >...If I get spun to a broach trying to launch, > I'll roll over on my strong side if I can, > then try to spin the kayak..... G'Day and thanks Doug, Much appreciated. I've tried the method you suggest for correcting a launch and it works well. Is it only applicable to a tight cockpit boat? I can imagine it would be hard to tilt over on the beach otherwise. I'm taking a trip this week, which may see an opportunity to try the disembarkation. Another question. Why is the non offside brace side nearest the beach, did I get that part right? All the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Doug wrote: - >...If I get spun to a broach trying to launch, > I'll roll over on my strong side if I can, > then try to spin the kayak..... >G'Day and thanks Doug, Much appreciated. I've tried the method you suggest for correcting a launch and it works well. Is it only applicable to a tight cockpit boat? I can imagine it would be hard to tilt over on the beach otherwise. I'm taking a trip this week, which may see an opportunity to try the disembarkation. Another question. Why is the non offside brace side nearest the beach, did I get that part right? All the best, PeterO< Better strength that side (by that I mean I lean the boat over onto my stronger side if possible. Any of these more unorthodox manoeuvres are done at one's own risk though, in terms of propensity for shoulder injury. Also, don't forget the original context of my reply, which was specific to dumping surf on a steep beach, as the subject header states. A tight fit helps every aspect of surfing a kayak, but I'm sure it disembarkation would be easier with a keyhole cockpit for surf landings on a difficult beach, than my ocean cockpit. I was looking at a P&H Quest today at a dealer out in Sooke (north of Victoria). Looks like a fine kayak, with good storage (more than say a Gulfstream), a good balance between manoeuvrability for surf zones and tracking in open seas - with a keyhole cockpit. Looks a bit more steady than a Legend (another kayak I may consider strongly as a replacement for my Nordkapp). It would be interesting indeed to try out some of the Aussie boats in the surf one day, too. I headed out to Jordan River for some kayak surfing today, but turned back half way as I was feeling crummy. One thing I have learned over the years is to not kayak surf if I'm not feeling 100%. Have fun Peter. Doug Lloyd Victoria BC ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~ "Whatever can be said at all can be said clearly and whatever cannot be said clearly should not be said at all." Ludwig Wittgenstein ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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