I would like to upgrade my seat and rudder peddle system and possibly add an optional down wind sail. The problem is that my kayak is a plastic Perception Eclipse. These these modifications require drilling new holes and filling existing ones. I am very very concerned about the hull cracking, or getting too spongy after too much sugery. Have any experience or ideas about this? Thanks! *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Stephen Huskey wrote: > > I would like to upgrade my seat and rudder peddle system and possibly add an > optional down wind sail. The problem is that my kayak is a plastic > Perception Eclipse. These these modifications require drilling new holes > and filling existing ones. I am very very concerned about the hull > cracking, or getting too spongy after too much sugery. Have any experience > or ideas about this? > I did quite some modifications on plastic boats, both drilling holes and filling them. Drilling is easy enough, I don't have to go into that. Closing holes is not that difficult, but the result will never be as strong as the original. I suggest you find some piece of plastic to practice on: in your kitchen you will find a bucket, tray or something else of soft plastic. Probably it will be PP instead of PE, but it handles the same. To fix a hole: Put a support under the hole, with a piece of wood, metal, wet towels or whatever. Heat up a strip of plastic till it is melting/burning/vaporizing/dripping. Really hot. While keeping this strip hot, heat up the edge of the hole, so that too is melting. Use a cold knife or other tool to push part of the melting strip in the hole. Push in as much as possible without pushing out the support. Let the plastic cool down, then heat up the knife and use it to smooth the surface, on both sides of the repair. Done! Test the strength, if you can push out the repair too easily just try again. Heat the plastic a bit more or less, use more pressure, use a hotter knife to give the finishing touch. Holes up to 8 millimeters can be closed quite nice in this way. It does take practice! I always first seal the old holes before drilling new ones. If I can't manage to close the hole, I can bring the boat back in its original state. Finding a strip of plastic to make the repairs can be difficult. Maybe you can find a rim on your boat, on the cockpit rim or the hatches, that has no use anyway. Cut it away and use that. I never throw away leftover material: I got parts of rims, footrests and various kitchen tools to make all my repairs. The first hole to drill is the hardest, psychologically. On a brand new boat, I usually start on the seat. A typical plastic seat is a hollow shape, with one or two holes, needed for the molding process. Through these holes the seat will easily fill up with water, but it can be hard to get that water out. I always start by taking the seat out of the kayak and drilling large holes on all corners and bends of the shape. Knock yourself out: A seat NEVER has too many holes. After that, drilling holes in the hull is much easier. If you want to put a mast through your deck, you'll probably need a big hole, larger then you'll ever be able to repair. I found a solution for that too: I drill a little hole (say 8 millimeters), heat up the surrounding area, then push a pointed wooden stake through the hole. The material you push away will form a rim inside. If you want to close it back up, reheat it: The material will go back to its original shape (with some help) and you're left with the original small hole, that's easy to fix. In my club, people can't understand the need to drill holes in any boat. I did find an explanation to shut them up: I explain it's a kind of male territorial behavior: A way of marking your property. Other people may piss on their boats to get the same results, I prefer to drill holes. Happy drilling, Niels. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In terms of plugging old holes, can someone share some opinions of this method of filling small holes?: Simply find a stainless steel machine screw with an acorn nut that just barely fits in the hole - better if it has to kind of be threaded into the hole. Add a rubber/fiber/neoprene washer if that makes it seem better to you. Or...use a slightly smaller screw, goop it up with hot glue or some other decent adhesive caulk and tighten it down. I've done this for moving my seat and footpeg tracks (fitting a 6'8" frame into a plastic boat that is almost big enough!). Seems to work fine. It is certainly quick - and appears 'normal' from the outside of the boat - many fasteners through the hull already. Might be easier to explain when trying to sell a used boat - not sure if the melted plastic fill-ins are noticeable??? Maybe they blend in just fine. Maybe this should only be a temporary repair. Any thoughts? Keith *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Niels Blaauw <niels.blaauw_at_wanadoo.nl> wrote: Closing holes is not that difficult, but the result will never be as strong as the original. Too true, especially as most polyethylene that isn't actually a copolymer with other units will absorb quite a bit of water. To fix a hole: Put a support under the hole, with a piece of wood, metal, wet towels or whatever. Metal (steel) works really well, as resolidified PE will not stick to it, and it doesn't suck off too much heat, weakening the bond. Heat up a strip of plastic till it is melting/burning/vaporizing/dripping. Really hot. While keeping this strip hot, heat up the edge of the hole, so that too is melting. You want it almost burning-hot. Use your knife or a piece of scrap metal to scrape off any soot or carbon- that is guaranteed to weaken the bond and be immensely water pervious. I generally try to hold my breath at this point! Word of caution: molten PE has a really high thermal capacity. A pinhead-size drop will give you a heat blister the size of a dime. You may not be able to wear gloves without sacrificing dexterity, but do wear a sturdy apron! Obviously, it is also a bad idea to wear synthetic-material clothing at this point. the finishing touch. Holes up to 8 millimeters can be closed quite nice in this way. It does take practice! 8mm is a really good size threshold; above that you'll really want to use a solid patch or dutchman (term of art-sorry Niels!) slightly bigger than the hole. It is useful to clean the surfaces first (sandpaper, 0000 steel wool, and acetone are what I use, in that order). Finding a strip of plastic to make the repairs can be difficult. Various fun melty-goo plastics can be had from ski-repair outfitters like www.tognar.com The copolymers they offer are quite a bit more rubbery and flexible than PE, useful if you need more adhesive power. They take quite a bit more heat than straight PE, and it is good to have a gas torch with a brass anvil to actually make the weld. The delamination repair epoxy they offer is really, really fun. Not as solid as West System or PC7, but nicely flexible. It works on carbon fiber bikes, too, hee. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> I would like to upgrade my seat and rudder peddle system and possibly add an > optional down wind sail. The problem is that my kayak is a plastic > Perception Eclipse. These these modifications require drilling new holes > and filling existing ones. I am very very concerned about the hull > cracking, or getting too spongy after too much sugery. Have any experience > or ideas about this? In addition to the technology used by Nielsen Blaauw, here are recommendations by Mark Balogh for mast holes. I'm planning to install his *upwind* sail rig and outriggers (removable, of course) on both PE and folding kayak, so progress is slow. Use keyhole saw (looks like mini hand saw), or hole-saw (actually a 4-5 cm wide drill bit). For keyhole saw you'll need to drill an 8-10 mm hole first, to insert the tip of the saw. My PE Prijon Seayak manual recommends using manufacturer's PE sticks of the same colour and hot-glue gun to fill the holes. I think it's a good idea to heat the hole edges as well, but with what? I'm not sure that hair-dryer will do the job. Portable heat gun (blower) neeeds caution - it's powerfull, may over-heat the plastic around the hole and cause hull distortion. Rudder will have to be replaced with a rudder for double kayak, and it may not be enough, since sail area is large and mast will be far from the bow. It's less of a problem with a small downind sail. What worries me is those plastic brackets holding the rudder asssembly at the stern - sailing will cause more stress on them. Balogh allso recommends to epoxy mast-step to the hull, I didn't come to that stage so far, but have read (New South Wales kayaking website? not sure) that epoxy won't stick well to PE, and that you need to do these works in a hot weather (don't know why). One thing is good with those PE kayaks - they are cheap, no fear of mistakes :-)... Alex. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Well I you guys did a good job scaring me to death! I guess I'll just leave my boat alone :( *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Stephen Huskey wrote: > > Well I you guys did a good job scaring me to death! I guess I'll just leave > my boat alone :( > Stephen: You clearly have a "quirk" preventing you from modifying your kayak. Unlike tunnels or large vessels, this is not a fear that you can simply avoid: Drilling holes in a kayak can be so much fun, you'll just HAVE to overcome your problem. Try to take it in small steps to get used to it: - Start by drilling tiny holes - Offer a friend (not a good friend!) to help him on his boat. - Get real drunk before drilling - Find a second hand wreck to practice on - Drill your first holes in a place out of sight, for instance the bottom of the hull. But seriously: It's not that difficult. Try it out on an old bucket: Cut it in pieces and try to make a piece of abstract art out of it. It may (or may not) enlighten your wife when you put it on the chimney. All it will cost you is a one dollar bucket and a "thank you" to the neighbour you borrowed the burner from. Take the dare! Niels. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Niels, I am continually impressed and awed by the ideas you come up with and are able to implement--plastic welding, the soft helmet, alternate knee hook rigging....keep up the great work!! You have earned full membership in the Gizmologist's Society, and will probably be looked upon for a Board position soon. ;) Shawn Niels Blaauw <niels.blaauw_at_wanadoo.nl> wrote: >Closing holes is not that difficult.. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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