Gary J. is snipped: <<There is a need for a rock-bottom-intro course that is very short, and open to all who might wan[t] or need it.>> The ACA does a good job of providing a bunch of low level classes to get the common denominator paddler the basic information they need. Nick Schade" is snipped: <<I won't try to justify the ACA in grouping white water with sea kayaking, however at this point most accident statistics glom all canoeing and kayaking into one group.>> My concern is that the ACA is representing itself rather than paddlers. As a sea kayaker who does not do whitewater, I would like to see the statistics broken out. I have not seen the report but I bet the majority of accidents are either whitewater or alcohol related. My point is despite recreational kayaks being the fastest growing group, I doubt that is where most accidents are. By promoting this type legislation, ACA is promoting a requirement for people to take their courses. Nick Schade is also snipped: <<What is the easiest thing to teach a casual paddler so he or she can deal with a capsize...A casual paddler will not take the time to practice sophisticated self rescue techniques...If you had his attention at a demo for 3 minutes, what would you show the guy that could potentially save his life? >> Assuming the question was not rhetorical: First teach them about proper gear like float bags and pumps. Then teach them to right the boat and bail the water out until they can get in and finish bailing. If the boat has no bow floatation at all, they are SOL and should have listened to the part about floatation. Brian Blankinship ACA Open Water Coastal Kayaking Instructor *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Thursday, April 17, 2003, at 06:04 PM, Blankibr_at_aol.com wrote: > > My concern is that the ACA is representing itself rather than > paddlers. As a > sea kayaker who does not do whitewater, I would like to see the > statistics > broken out. I have not seen the report but I bet the majority of > accidents > are either whitewater or alcohol related. My point is despite > recreational > kayaks being the fastest growing group, I doubt that is where most > accidents > are. By promoting this type legislation, ACA is promoting a > requirement for > people to take their courses. A majority of the accidents are people like the guy outlined in my rec boat scenario. It may well be true that the ACA does not truly represent the interests of sea kayakers, but the other groups having input into canoe and kayak regulation in Connecticut are farther removed. At the public hearing on registration one of the speakers was from the Connecticut Marine Trade Association http://www.ctmarinetrades.org/. CMTA membership includes primarily marinas, boat yards and boat dealers. Only one of its members is involved with sea kayaks and it is retailer. The Connecticut DEP hosts a Boating Advisory Council. Members of this council include a rep from the above CMTA, a sportsmens association lobbyist, and reps from a bass fishing group, a sports fishing group, a yacht club group, a commercial boaters group and the Power Squadron. A woman who is a kayaker has asked to become a member. They have agreed to let her attend meetings but she is not yet a member. It is very likely other states have similar people influencing future legislation which will affect paddlers. While the ACA may have concerns beyond sea kayaking, I am glad they are making an effort to make their voice heard. It will be tough to get past the other groups already asking for attention. If you do not feel the ACA will represent your needs, I suggest you make an effort yourself or join/organize a group which will. > > Nick Schade is also snipped: <<What is the easiest thing to teach a > casual > paddler so he or she can deal with a capsize...A casual paddler will > not take > the time to practice sophisticated self rescue techniques...If you had > his > attention at a demo for 3 minutes, what would you show the guy that > could > potentially save his life? >> > > Assuming the question was not rhetorical: First teach them about > proper gear > like float bags and pumps. Then teach them to right the boat and bail > the > water out until they can get in and finish bailing. If the boat has > no bow > floatation at all, they are SOL and should have listened to the part > about > floatation. The question is not rhetorical. This is very much the kind of accident which is driving up the fatality statistics. Remember that many people buying recreational kayaks do so because they are very inexpensive. The list price of the Pungo is $579 and other recreational kayaks go for far less ($350) and are not as well equipped for safety. It is worthwhile to tell people to spend another $100 on safety gear, but chances are they won't. They "know for a fact" that they will _never_ need it. The dealer they bought the boat from probably doesn't even stock float bags that will work in short recreational kayaks. I've gone into many "good" kayak shops and have been unable to find a paddle float. You can write the guy off and Darwin will do his duty and kill the guy (my example guy already has 27 grandchildren so it is too late to clip his branch of evolution). But even if his death does not bother you, the fatality of the fat fisherman will be used in the next round of legislation to justify regulating kayaks. I would like it if everyone who ever uses a kayak has all the appropriate gear and spends the time and money to learn from a ACA Open Water Coastal Kayaking Instructor, but the fact is they don't have the gear and they don't think they will ever get into a situation where they will need all that fancy stuff. That stuff is for those "extreme" kayakers that paddle on the ocean. All the casual kayaker wants to do is cruise slowly around the lake on a calm summer afternoon and maybe catch a fish or two. Its just a little fun, its not dangerous. Is it? If we write off this guy as too stupid for his own good, we may end up paying the price in unwanted regulation. So either we figure out a way to get him to safety before he slips below the surface, or we let him die and accept the consequences. Maybe there is no practical, simple way to protect people like this fisherman. But if people like this group at paddlewise can not come up with a way to get a fat guy back in his little kayak I for one would be very disappointed. Nick Schade Guillemot Kayaks 824 Thompson St Glastonbury, CT 06033 USA Ph/Fx: (860) 659-8847 http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Blankibr_at_aol.com wrote: >My concern is that the ACA is representing itself rather than paddlers. One of the primary goals of any organization is to perpetuate its own existence...I think the ACA does a good job of representing paddlers, but, in all honesty, it does represent itself, too. >As a sea kayaker who does not do whitewater, I would like to see the statistics broken out. Whitewater statistics are easy, because Charlie Walbridge has already taken the time to compile them all. >I have not seen the report but I bet the majority of accidents are either whitewater or alcohol related. My point is despite recreational kayaks being the fastest growing group, I doubt that is where most accidents are. I did some informal accident tracking on sea kayak accidents for the first part of last year: http://www.kayakforum.com/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/guille/wiki.pl?Accident_Reports_2002 20 from January-July. It's not clear whether they were sea kayaks or rec boats from most of the reports. Somewhat of a mix between powerboat collisions, heart attacks, no PFD's, or immersion/exposure. We can do a lot to educate and prevent the latter two. > By promoting this type legislation, ACA is promoting a requirement or people to take their courses. Nebulous, isn't it?! I'm an ACA Instructor, but I don't want anyone to _have_ to take a course from me. The ACA is also trying to beef up the number of CK Instructors, ostensibly to provide more instruction opportunities for all the newbies out there. It appears to me that marketing is the problem. There isn't enough public marketing of the need for kayak-related education. I contacted the ACA about this, and didn't get much of a response. Personally, I'd rather my ACA and SEIC dues went toward marketing than shaping legislation (not that that's all they pay for). If we run around trying to legislate and regulate everyone else, pretty soon, they're going to want to start regulating us. Everybody loses. It's been said time and again, but it's worth repeating: Education, not regulation. People need to be aware that kayaking can be dangerous, and that educational opportunities are available. Making them take classes isn't the way to do it, IMNSHO. We have cigarette ads, drug ads, abstinence ads, seat belt ads, designated driver ads. Why not a kayaking TV ad? USCG grants may even be available. Get the word out once. Stop the ignorance. If people then choose to do nothing about it, then it's their own fault. To its credit, the ACA does have a nice new 4-color, 4-page brochure on safety basics. And it's free for the asking. A very good idea, IMHO. For some reason, they sent them out to Paddle America Clubs, and not Instructors...you might want to ask for one or a couple dozen. And before anyone even goes down that road, this isn't an ACA-bashing thread. Quite a few P'wisers are ACA members, and the ACA is there to represent paddlers....we need to discuss how they are and how they can best represent us all as paddlers. Shawn __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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