Doug, Your new tiedown system has a minor fault. With only one line coming from the boat (then splitting into 2) you have the vertical lift problem solved but you are not getting maximum control of horizontal shifting of the boat, such as would be encountered in high winds. Both lines should go all the way to the boat from the bumper. Ron in MN *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> With only one line coming from the > boat (then splitting into 2) you have the vertical lift problem solved but you > are not getting maximum control of horizontal shifting of the boat, such as > would be encountered in high winds. Both lines should go all the way to the > boat from the bumper. My understanding is that they are auxilary - just to prevent the boat from complete flying off the roof. Lateral shift is effectively blocked by other means, like 2 pairs of saddles or rollers(they also block vertical shift, so tie-ups are again auxilary). Of course, there is no such thing as too much tie-ups (provided they are not damaging the hull). Alex. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> > My understanding is that they are auxilary - just to prevent the boat > from complete flying off the roof. Lateral shift is effectively > blocked by other means, like 2 pairs of saddles or rollers(they also > block vertical shift, so tie-ups are again auxilary). As posted before I think the bow and stern tie downs are useful in taking torsional stress off of the roof rack due to "lift" from the airstream. In that sense they also take some stress off the straps used to keep the boat in the saddles. Even with saddles, boats can move around a bit so I think tie downs do help prevent shifting side to side as well. And too much is better than not enough!! *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Ron had said: >> With only one line coming from the boat (then splitting into 2) you have the vertical lift problem solved but you are not getting maximum control of horizontal shifting of the boat, such as would be encountered in high winds. Both lines should go all the way to the boat from the bumper.<< Alex replied (as I was too lazy): >My understanding is that they are auxilary - just to prevent the boat from complete flying off the roof. Lateral shift is effectively blocked by other means, like 2 pairs of saddles or rollers(they also block vertical shift, so tie-ups are again auxilary). Of course, there is no such thing as too much tie-ups (provided they are not damaging the hull).< Not sure why Ron missed that, unless he assumed no direct tie-down to the roof racks. I'm running Yakma' rollers on back with the cradle on front, with cammed tie-down straps around the boat, over and around and through the front and back bars. The stern and bow tie downs are strictly backup. Most folks just run these for longer trip down the highway, for highway speeds. As I carry my boat atop all Spring to take quick advantage of incoming cold fronts and associated wind vectors that align with my preferred routes, the tie downs need to be convenient and strong. I believe the cam type tie-down meet the criteria, though they cost me $50.00 for the set, and another $75.00 for the Stainless Steel 2-5/8" ring bolts for the bumpers (like eye-bolts, but with an added ring). This latter price included SS swivel clips which replace the galvanized hooks that came with the tie-downs. I replaced the hooks with swivel snaps, as it make it easier to loosen the cam buckles (for whatever reason, like hood entry) without the hook falling out of the ring (the snap has to be manually unfastened). I've never worried about anyone stealing my kayak (too heavy, too idiosyncratic), but my new tie-down system with SS componentry is worth a fair bit. I know, 'cause I just got spousal tongue lashing for spending $120.00 on additional tie-downs. The expenditure was part of my strategy to get me on the water (and then back off) more efficiently, so that I can get out more often, more quickly. Unfortunately, I'm one of these paddlers who has to have everything just so before I motivate to the water, and also one who needs to enact my latest fix before hitting the water. It's one of my less noble idiosyncrasies, but one I can't shake. Doug Lloyd Victoria BC ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~ "Whatever can be said at all can be said clearly and whatever cannot be said clearly should not be said at all." Ludwig Wittgenstein ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Doug wrote: <SNIP>>>>>I've never worried about anyone stealing my kayak (too heavy, too idiosyncratic), but my new tie-down system with SS componentry is worth a fair bit. <<<<<SNIP> Doug, I think you are giving thieves to much credit for brain-power. An imagined conversation among thieves: "I seen this kayak today and asked how much da guy paid for it. Over $2500, man. I didn't know they were worth so much. I'll bet we could nab one easy and sell it quick for over $500." Second guy: "I know where there is one that would be easy to take. Its always on a guys car parked on (Doug's) street every night. It would be easy to cut the straps and haul it off in your old moving truck." Later as they are lifting your kayak off your car and into the truck: "Man, I didn't know kayaks were so heavy." Somebody stole Robert Livingston's Excalibur. This was an absolutely unique kayak. Only one was ever made. Also unfortunately for its chance of recovery, Excalibur rivaled an Olympic Flatwater kayak for stability so isn't likely to be seen being paddled around by anyone. It made your Nordkapp feel like a beginners kayak. The fantasy is that the thief tried it out and somehow managed keep it upright long enough to get into deep water before capsizing and being swept further off shore by a current never to be heard from again. Matt Broze www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Matt Broze wrote: > > Doug, I think you are giving thieves to much credit for brain-power. Amen to that. An unsuccesful attempt was made to steal my kayak last week, from my car. Occasionally I leave it on top of the car overnight, locked to one of the roofracks with a chain. It seems the chain was not clearly visible: Someone untied all other lines and straps, tried to get the boat of the car, breaking off a wingmirror and denting the side of the car, then discovered the boat was still attached with a chain, so he left, leaving the boat hanging by the side of the car. The boat may be only 2 months old, but it is quite heavily scratched and extensively modified: Decklines, aluminium reinforcements, electric pump... Impossible to sell. I will NOT leave my car outside again, overnight. Niels. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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