In my folding F-craft Kahuna the 12.5" depth quoted in its specs happened to be the skin-to-skin height at the aft cockpit rib, i.e. at the back-rest. (While the maximum depth of 13 3/4" is at the fore cockpit rib). Is it a common way to measure depth at the aft cockpit side? How do they measure depth in a doubles then :-), or in folders with high washboards like Folbots. Btw, Bagboaters Yahoo group is sort of closed for now, - I don't see "messages" section on that page. Alex. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
alex" <al.m_at_3web.net> asked: >> In my folding F-craft Kahuna the 12.5" depth quoted in its specs happened to be the skin-to-skin height at the aft cockpit rib, i.e. at the back-rest. (While the maximum depth of 13 3/4" is at the fore cockpit rib). Is it a common way to measure depth at the aft cockpit side? How do they measure depth in a doubles then :-), or in folders with high washboards like Folbots? >> Matt Broze will give us an authoritative answer, I bet. In the interim, here's mine: it is usual to give the depth (height) at the front of the cockpit ... for singles. This is a crude indicator of how well the cockpit will accommodate paddlers of differing size. In reality, a better number would be the comparable vertical dimension where the paddlers legs (lower thighs and knees, usually) hit the underside of the deck. A deck with a peaked shape would be a tougher proposition for big-legged guys like me than one with a more ovoid profile. That's why the single number is misleading. Example: my Eddyline Wind Dancer is an excellent "big boy" boat because the center of the cockpit front is a ways from the hull, __and__ the deck profile is broad and does not curve down radically until close to the sheer. For hardshell doubles and folders with hardshell-style coamings (i.e., Feathercraft), I believe the height for the front of the rear cockpit is used, but have not paid much attention. Open cockpit jobs like the Folbot double are a weird bunch of bananas. I'd guess the vertical distance from the center of the hull to a horizontal line connecting the bottoms of the washboards would be the most comparable figure. Probably center of the cockpit would be the most useful locus. Recognize that the sea worthiness of such doubles in heavy water is compromised unless there is a very sturdy spraydeck. Also, knee/thigh bracing must be done to the underside of frames, in some, making the number above less meaningful for paddler fit estimates. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Open cockpit jobs like the Folbot double are a weird bunch of bananas. I'd > guess the vertical distance from the center of the hull to a horizontal line > connecting the bottoms of the washboards would be the most comparable figure. Yes, superstructures above the deck like washboards or cockpit rim must not be included. Additional "bottleneck" for big guys in folders is the fore cockpit rib.What is, btw, the height from the center of the hull skin to the bottom of washboards in Kodiak, measured at the fore cockpit point: 16", 18"? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Due to spam they started bagboater2 Where is it? (Will go there with my spammer questions right now :-) Alex. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
alex <al.m_at_3web.net> asked: >> Yes, superstructures above the deck like washboards or cockpit rim must not be included. Additional "bottleneck" for big guys in folders is the fore cockpit rib.What is, btw, the height from the center of the hull skin to the bottom of washboards in Kodiak, measured at the fore cockpit point: 16", 18"? >> Less than I thought. And, maybe less useful than I thought. I did not want to assemble my Kodiak, so I took the dimensions off the S-3 frame (more or less the "front" of the cockpit coaming if there were a trad. hardshell coaming around my torso) and got: 12 inches from where the hull would be (1 inch below frame bottom) to __the horizontal line__ connecting the two top ends of the frame 14.5 inches from where the hull would be (1 inch below frame bottom) to __a point in the center where the frames would project the deck__ if their top surfaces were extended to the center. (This is approximately equivalent to the typical way of measuring yak depth for hardshells: top center front underside of coaming to hull.) The latter figure is in the "big boy" boat category, I believe, consistent with the fact that I fit well into the Kodiak cockpit, with some padding on the frames to prevent gouging of my thighs and knees. For reference, the corresponding measurement I just got off my Eddyline Wind Dancer is also 14.5 inches. But this way of judging whether a yak will fit is suspect, because: 1. of the hull profile differences mentioned earlier, 2. cockpits differ in length (the WD has an enormously long cockpit), and, 3. the height of the seat above the hull may differ, also. (I removed the stock seat and put in minicell in my WD, gaining an inch or so of depth at the tush point -- greatly increasing my comfort and the initial stability of the yak -- the CG being lowered substantially by getting myself lower.) -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
That is a good question. It would be nice if all the manufacturers and magazines could agree to use certain standard measurements. Sea Kayaker uses all inside dimensions for all the cockpit data. The depth at the front of the cockpit is from the bottom of the coaming edge in the middle to the inside of the hull in the middle. This is also the dimension I try to keep track of in my collection of data on kayaks (unless something else limits the room ones shins have to slide under as may sometimes be the case with the frame of a folding kayak). For one thing inside depth is usually very easy to measure with a tape measure and, while not perfect, it gives one an idea along with the inside cockpit length and width just how big a paddler this kayak will fit. Unfortunately, most other sources of dimensions list just what the manufacturer tells them are the kayaks dimensions. Some manufacturers consider depth to be the maximum depth you could slide the kayak through (from the bottom of the hull to the highest point on the kayak--or at least the highest point near the middle of the kayak). Often they measure the coaming length and width to the outside dimension adding 3 or 4 inches to cockpit length and width. I wish Canoe and Kayak and Paddler magazine would get more specific about which depth they are asking manufacturers for and would also adopt the Sea Kayaker inside dimensions standard as the one. This would make my hobby of data compiler much easier. Sometimes a kayak's advertised dimensions are up to 6 inches off in length and an inch or more off in width even though what these overall dimensions are supposed to measure is very clear. Sometimes the dimensions are rounded to the nearest foot or inch. Sometimes I suspect the ad man wants to make the kayak seem a little shorter or longer (or wider or narrower) than it is because they think it will increase the market size for the kayak. Never trust the ad men about a kayaks weight. I've seen up to 20 pound differences between the ad man's fantasy and a scale. Except for the few times that they recorded the length data a foot wrong you can pretty much trust that the data from a Sea Kayaker review is accurately measured. if I measure the length with a tape measure to be a little longer than Sea Kayakers measure I record the Sea Kayaker measure as the most accurate one because I know they drop a plumb line from the bow and the stern ends and measure flat on the floor while I'm bending the tape over the cockpit etc. I trust my own width measurements over any other source because I use big calipers to measure it. I have not kept track of the depth at the back of the cockpit but I suppose it could help one understand some things, such as, how easy the boat would be to roll (but the top height of the cockpit back and its shape might be better to know for this) or how big a hard cooler you could stuff under the deck (if there was no rear bulkhead). I don't think this is nearly as valuable dimension to a paddler as the inside front of the cockpit depth and the inside length of the cockpit. Matt Broze www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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